Refuse to transfer
- Thread starter KY DAN
- Start date
- Status
dogtown tom
Member
Sorry bub, it ain't only 5 minutes.
1. Customer emails me about his purchase with contact info on the seller.
2. I send my FFL to seller.
3. Package arrives, I unbox firearm.
4. I record firearm information and the sellers information in my bound book.
5. Notify buyer/transferee that their firearm has arrived.
6. Buyer/transferee arrives to complete Form 4473
7. Run FBI NICS check and customer takes it home if hes a proceed, if delayed he returns when his status changes.
You and the buyer think I only did the last two. What you don't see are the 20-30 phone calls from guys wanting a Kriss Vector, guys asking if you have an ejector rod for a Spanish revolver made in 1922, asking you to quote "your best price" on a whole list of guns.....over the phone.
Fees aren't calculated for just the few minutes the customer sees me face to face........but because I have an FFL. There are expenses and my time. there is the time spent being competent of ATF regs, of remaining compliant with my recordkeeping among other hidden costs.
Mark_Mark
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2021
- Messages
- 17,995
If that’s the case, If I were you, I would charge like $50-$100 for FFL transfers. That way you only get quality customers who are willing to pay for your time.
Seedy Character
Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2021
- Messages
- 2,064
The power is on, license fee paid, rent, employee salary, even when no customer present.
$20-$40 transfer, without capital put into inventory, is 100% profit.
Give me the money!
Last edited:
Buzznrose
Member
The post I replied to had the word “profit”, not income.
I agree, it is income/revenue, but not profit.
Without income from sales of goods or services, expenses (power, salaries, fees, taxes, etc.) don’t get paid for long. But income does not equal profit, regardless if the business had specific resources tied up or not.
If a guy brings in a bag of parts from the 1911 he disassembled and cannot put back together, and pays the hourly service cost for the gunsmith to assemble his firearm with his parts, is that not the same thing?
You want people to give you the money for a transfer? That’s easy…get an FFL license and you can get paid too…
Seedy Character
Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2021
- Messages
- 2,064
$0 in inventory
$40 income
$40 made
Overall business may or may not make a profit.
Keep turning down that $40, I will take the profit.
Had an FFL for many years. Did many transfers for the easy profit.
Same with box of parts. Nothing but time, no capital involved. That transaction is 100% profit, adding income to overall business.
The rest is semantics
$40 income
$40 made
Overall business may or may not make a profit.
Keep turning down that $40, I will take the profit.
Had an FFL for many years. Did many transfers for the easy profit.
Same with box of parts. Nothing but time, no capital involved. That transaction is 100% profit, adding income to overall business.
The rest is semantics
Last edited:
Mark_Mark
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2021
- Messages
- 17,995
100% !!! do what you want with your business, but if my employees is getting $25/hour, they better be working! $25-$35-$45 it all adds up
Mark_Mark
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2021
- Messages
- 17,995
a wise man told me once; A Dollar you didn’t make is a $1 you loss. Maximize your profit with automation and computer!
Some folks will take money for junk while others have a reputation to protect that's far more valuable than the fee for a transfer.
BreechFace
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2020
- Messages
- 3,512
If an FFL wants to charge more than $25 to do a transfer, I'll do my transfers elsewhere and make my all my in-store purchases with the multitude of FFL's that only charge $25 or less on transfers.
I'll stand by my assessment that my dealer only has bout 5-10 minutes of actual work on my transfer.
The dealers I work with often have their FFL information with the company I'm purchasing from. If not a quick reply to my email of the sellers email with their FFL information gets the ball rolling. Maybe 1 minute of time.
Receive item shipped, open it up and log it in the bound book 2 minutes (one is probably sitting down to do multiples)
Phone call or text message stating item has arrived 1 minute
4473 1-2 minutes for filling out serial, sign, date and a double check
FBI check not required with CCW permit in my state.
The store is already open for business, serving customers with employees standing around a lot of time. This transfer work is fill in work on employees slack time. Don't have customers in the store, have an employee go in the back and process incoming firearms, make calls and file paperwork. The bit of time that can be a nuisance would be the 4473 work as that can come at a busy or not so busy time.
Dealers who make this process out to be more than it is are just trying to justify their high costs to make money off the customer. I see my FFL's that provide that service at a reasonable rate ($20-30) as an establishment that is worth supporting with my purchases, consignments, and free advertising by my word of mouth.
I'll stand by my assessment that my dealer only has bout 5-10 minutes of actual work on my transfer.
The dealers I work with often have their FFL information with the company I'm purchasing from. If not a quick reply to my email of the sellers email with their FFL information gets the ball rolling. Maybe 1 minute of time.
Receive item shipped, open it up and log it in the bound book 2 minutes (one is probably sitting down to do multiples)
Phone call or text message stating item has arrived 1 minute
4473 1-2 minutes for filling out serial, sign, date and a double check
FBI check not required with CCW permit in my state.
The store is already open for business, serving customers with employees standing around a lot of time. This transfer work is fill in work on employees slack time. Don't have customers in the store, have an employee go in the back and process incoming firearms, make calls and file paperwork. The bit of time that can be a nuisance would be the 4473 work as that can come at a busy or not so busy time.
Dealers who make this process out to be more than it is are just trying to justify their high costs to make money off the customer. I see my FFL's that provide that service at a reasonable rate ($20-30) as an establishment that is worth supporting with my purchases, consignments, and free advertising by my word of mouth.
dogtown tom
Member
I only have quality customers as it is.
I fire the ones who aren't.
dogtown tom
Member
At some point in life you are going to understand that you don't understand. That may explain why you are no longer an FFL.
Income is not profit. I learned that at age eleven mowing yards. Some don't.
dogtown tom
Member
I love it when guys who have never been a gun dealer tell us how much time we spend on our business.
I should tell my dentist what his time is worth.
BreechFace
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2020
- Messages
- 3,512
I love it when guys who have never been a gun dealer tell us how much time we spend on our business.
I should tell my dentist what his time is worth.
Ok. I know the process, been around it. Not hard, nor does it take much time.
Madcap_Magician
Member
Well, the way I see it is if an FFL wants to be snooty about the brands they sell and is willing to leave money on the table by refusing to do transfers for certain brands, then, well, that's their business.
I wish we had decent transfers around here. $35 is the lowest transfer fee I can get. We have one store that charges $75. I doubt anyone transfers guns there anymore.
Our local Scheels gun counter guy says they won't sell military surplus or anything where there's not a manufacturer that they can send people for warranty service. They're afraid of people coming after them legally for surplus or antique guns that don't work or something. Not sure if that's a valid concern or if he was right about their policy when he said that.
I wish we had decent transfers around here. $35 is the lowest transfer fee I can get. We have one store that charges $75. I doubt anyone transfers guns there anymore.
Our local Scheels gun counter guy says they won't sell military surplus or anything where there's not a manufacturer that they can send people for warranty service. They're afraid of people coming after them legally for surplus or antique guns that don't work or something. Not sure if that's a valid concern or if he was right about their policy when he said that.
Mark_Mark
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2021
- Messages
- 17,995
When you know you made it and don’t care anymore! Love your attitude bro!
dogtown tom
Member
Don't misunderstand.
99.9% of my customers are awesome. The .1% that aren't I just politely decline to do transfers for them anymore.
Since 2008 I've only fired a few:
1. Guy angry because his gun hadn't arrived and he was leaving town that day. Uh, that's on your seller and FedEx, I can't transfer what I dont have. Irrational.
2. Guy who ignored my pickup email for a week and showed up unannounced when I wasn't home. He believed I should end what I was doing and come home immediately to do his transfer because he was a long time customer (he wasn't).
3. Guy who ordered an AK, came with his wife because it "was for her". A month later an 870 arrives in his name and he brought his son because it "was for him". Uh no. You dont go ordering guns in your name and try to have someone else fill out paperwork.
4. This March, a local attorney opened an account at Rock River, giving them my FFL#, but his name, email address and credit card info. Rock River doesn't do consumer retail sales, only dealer orders. He thought this would let him buy a gun at dealer cost. Rock River called me to verify my shipping address and didn't believe me when I told them I didn't have a Rock River account. They pooped their pants when told them I was a one man business. He had been a customer for a decade.
Ive read that 1% of your customers are 99% of your problems. I think that pretty accurate.
Mark_Mark
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2021
- Messages
- 17,995
You got some stories! FFL must be an adventure! One day when I retire, and stop moving, and the political climate cools down… I’m going to be a FFL too
There may be some "elitism" with some shops, but knowledgeable ones that don't want the hassle of selling known problem firearms are looking out for themselves and serving their customers.
dogtown tom
Member
Do it now.
It doesn't need to be your full time job or even a very busy part time job like me.
Politics are never going to change. There will always be anti gunners and always be liberals pushing their agenda.
herrwalther
Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2013
- Messages
- 8,130
Covid was the best time to apply. For awhile, ATF was doing phone interviews instead of in person to reduce exposure. Not sure if they still are but I can handle a 4 hour phone call better than someone coming by my house for the same amount of time.
Seedy Character
Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2021
- Messages
- 2,064
No longer an FFL BY CHOICE
I retired and moved out of State.
But a business degree means I know nothing and you definitely know it all.
Perusing catalogs or sweeping floors and $25 transfer comes in is a $25 profit.
Turn them down, you definitely know it all and don't need the $$
dogtown tom
Member
If the initial interview takes more than an hour the IOI and you are arguing 9mm vs .45
I've had two FFL interviews and neither took more than an hour.
dogtown tom
Member
I don't claim to know it all, but unlike some who have an business degree, I understand the difference between profit and income.
- Status
