Had to keep my mouth shut

[chris in va]

I was invited to a friend's house over Christmas for dinner. She's quite the ACLU/liberal type but enjoys a range trip regardless. However...

One of my gifts was a spotting scope, and her even MORE liberal sister started spouting off how no one should be allowed CC licenses. Here I am sitting on the couch with my VA and FL permits and it was all I could do to not make a scene. Frankly I'm no good with friendly arguments so I shut my trap.

I was so tempted to show her the permits though.

 

[MechAg94]

Sometimes, that is the best option. I know I am not the best speaker or the most persuasive. Also, gun rights debates are not always the best family discussions at Christmas.

 

[MDHunter]

Good Call...

especially since there were TWO of them, and if you don't trust your ability to remain calm, their emotion might get the better of them. Also you're at their house, so politely respecting their beliefs is a good practice in any account.

Curious though, how a spotting scope brought the topic up? Unless they knew it was for gun range versus hunting/birdwatching/etc....

And if her sister is hot and single, I'll be happy to try my luck at bringing her over to the good side....

Happy New Year, Chris. I live in MD but work in NoVA, and am getting more alarmed at the influx of libbies into the VA area...in 10 years, NoVA and MD will look and act alike, I fear.

Michael

 

[vynx]

You did the right thing because with most of those people nothing you say will change their mind - they don't use logic.

I always think of it like this - when I walk past a house and the dog runs up to the fence and barks at me what do I do? Keep on walking on get down on my hands and knees and bark back?

When I hear a fool start spouting off - I just tell myself it would be like barking at a dog - a fool thing to do.

 

[Stachie]

You did the right thing.

 

[ProguninTN]

Good job

I had to keep quiet when anti neighbors came over for Christmas dinner. It wasn't so bad. I did get a new piece.

 

[.38 Special]

I have, on occasion, soundly defeated the arguments of anti-gunners (brag, brag) in a very polite, calm, and informative manner. This has, however, invariably resulted in an annoyed anti-gunner throwing up his hands (literally and/or figuratively), saying "whatever" and walking away.

So as mentioned above, there really is no point with the more rabid of the breed. The best possible outcome is that the anti-gunner walks away with mind unchanged but feathers unruffled. The rest of the possibilities are all more or less unpleasant. The old saw about not arguing religion or politics with anyone you want to remain on speaking terms with comes to mind.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The Holidays are no time to argue, you did the right thing!

 

[Colt46]

Good thing you did keep quiet

I'm certain you might have lost control, let your bloodlust get up, and start shooting over something as silly as a friendly argument. That certainly would have given them validation in their beliefs.

 

[dfaugh]

I have, on occasion, soundly defeated the arguments of anti-gunners (brag, brag) in a very polite, calm, and informative manner.

Me too, and pretty consistantly. The key is to NOT stoop to their level of illogic and emotion, and talk about the undeniable facts about gun ownership.

Having said that, you probably did the right thing...no point in ruining a holiday celebration witha heated debate.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

I think you did a good job taking the high road on this one. However, IMO I think your friend is a bad host. She knows your pro-2A, she should have pulled her sister aside and told her to cool it with the political views, that it was offending certain people. Christmas get-togethers arent the right time to be debating issues; that goes for everyone, supporters and anti's.

 

[Missashot]

I think you did the right thing by not going in to confrontation mode with this. Christmas is just not the right time, nor is someone else's home the place to get into a conversation like that. Good job!
However,in all fairness, (And in keeping with a peaceful Christmas spirit.) I do think that the mouthy sister should have been asked to back off.
I say you showed a lot of restraint and class!

 

[MDHunter]

COME ON, Guys....

What's with all this stuff about restraint, class, and good judgement? I thought we gunnies were all rabid, sexually undeveloped relics who are out of touch with civilization?

(Darn, maybe I've been in maryland too long...that came out pretty quickly...)

Michael

 

[30 cal slob]

was she a looker?

i'm generally more polite if she's cute.

if she looks like rosie o'doughnuts, i let loose.

 

[Father Knows Best]

Offensive Halloween costume

We moved to Minnesota from Tennessee just this past summer, and so wound up in a new neighborhood where we didn't know anyone. We had just started getting to know some of our neighbors when Halloween rolled around. We got invited to a neighbor's house for a party, and the host greeted us at the door in his "costume." He was dressed up in dirty overalls and a wife-beater t-shirt with a fake beer gut (pillow). He was wearing a baseball cap with a big NRA logo on the front, and he had fake buckteeth in his mouth. Did I mention he was also barefoot and carrying a moonshine jug? Anyway, when he opened the door, he grinned and said, "Hi, y'all! I'm collecting donations fer tha N-R-A!

Damn yankees...

 

[Prince Yamato]

My liberal friends (the real far lefties) are all like the one you described. They make blanket proclamations like, "no one should own a gun". Even after they agree that if you ban guns that only criminals will have guns, they still stick to their statements. Remember, most of them just want attention. Think of them like puppies. You give your puppy treats now and then, but don't give 'em too many, or they'll come to expect having what they want when they want, and like the liberal, will whine to get it.

 

[Tokugawa]

I love arguments.
So I usually fire back by saying , "yeah, especially those Jew's and Blacks and Asians and Latino's shouldn't have guns cause it make it so much easier to round them up and put them in the camps."

This is a difficult thing for them to process. Along with the the fact that most of the murdered in the 20th century have been disarmed people murdered by thier own government. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.

I am DONE with hearing people bash gunowners. I won't start an argument, but I am sure not gonna sit there and listen without defense.

 

[K3]

You should have invited her to the range for an afternoon. That works wonders sometimes.

Story: I have a cousin who is very liberal and was rabidly anti. She began working for the DAs office and I guess a lightbulb went off in her head. She wanted my advice on a carry pistol. We talked for the better part of an hour. I'm not sure what she ended up getting, but I know she got something. She used to preach about the evils of private gun ownership any chance she'd get. Now she doesn't. I wish it were that easy all the time. I didn't even have to do any real work.

 

[chris in va]

It was definitely an interesting situation. Fortunately the CC mention was only for a minute and the topic quickly switched to something else. I wasn't alone in my beliefs, my best buddy was there too (it was his GF's house we were at).

I failed to mention her mother was there too, also liberal. All three are from Baltimore, the mother and sister originally being from NYC.

When I went to the kitchen we had a good chuckle about the comments made.

Oh, and how they look? Think Sally Jesse Raphael.

 

[Derby FALs]

I prefer open carry, Old West Style. hehehe...

 

[JAMES77257]

I don't associate with anti's, come to think of it, I prefer not to associate with anyone.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

constructive dialogue opener

I find this works really well if they have any sense at all.

"I noticed you have some strong beliefs relating to 'guns'. It seems like everyone in our country is so divided, it's a good time to both explore a common ground as well as offer each other some constructive ideas. I happen to exercise my right to keep and bear arms and feel it is vital for the continued existence of a relatively free nation. Would you care to open this up a little with me?"

And then, without resorting to anger as much as possible, explain the importance of bearings arms in the larger political sense. Liberals tend to champion the 'underdog' and may be able to realize your point. They are afraid of 'tyranny', they think, and want to resist it and just don't realize they are becoming the tyranny. Ask if she thinks police and military should have guns (usually the answer is no). So then, bring up the possibility of a world run by a fascist gov't and no way to resist or defend local areas. Give her things to think about she hasn't considered and brush up on American historical figures as well as the continued usurpation of power from common citizens to corporations. Ask about the role of Jewish resistance in WWII and review a pro gun facts site so you can politely answer some of her fears about firearms and terrorists, criminals, CCW's etc
You;d be surprised to find there may some wiggle room. Heh.

 

[Mannlicher]

I'd say you could pick your friends better.

 

[Dave P]

In Laws

My sister and BIL in CA always came across as anti-gun. BIL once made similar comment about not needing CCW.

But to my surprise, this year he asks me to show him how to use his H/D shotgun! So there is hope yet!

Dave

 

[Father Knows Best]

And then, without resorting to anger as much as possible, explain the importance of bearings arms in the larger political sense.

That's nice in theory, but my experience is that it doesn't work that way, for two reasons. First of all, most liberals believe that anyone who opposes gun control is a rabid, pro-violence, uneducated "gun nut" who will make up any excuse to cover his pathetic and pathological need to fondle instruments of death and destruction. In other words, they won't believe for an instant that you're being sincere. Instead, they will believe that all that nice talk about "public welfare" and a "free society" is just mumbo-jumbo we spew to justify our sick desire to masturbate to the sound of bombs and machine guns.

Second, and more important, those very same gun-hating liberals who don't trust your motives tend to themselves be hoplophobes, to use Jeff Cooper's term. Here's what he said about the topic in his classic essay The Root of the Evil:

I coined the term hoplohobia over twenty years ago, not out of pretension but in the sincere belief that we should recognize a very peculiar sociological attitude for what is - a more or less hysterical neurosis rather than a legitimate political position. It follows convention in the use of Greek roots in describing specific mental afflictions. Hoplon is the Greek word for "instrument," but refers synonymously to "weapon" since the earliest and principal instruments were weapons. Phobos is Greek for "terror" and medically denotes unreasoning panic rather than normal fear. Thus hoplophobia is a mental disturbance characterized by irrational aversion to weapons, as opposed to justified apprehension about those who may wield them. The word has not become common, though twenty years is perhaps too short a time in which to test it, but I am nevertheless convinced that it has merit. We read of "gun grabbers" and "anti-gun nuts" but these slang terms do not face up to the reasons why such people behave the way they do. They do not adequately suggest that reason, logic, and truth can have no effect upon one who is irrational on the point under discussion. You cannot say calmly "Come, let us reason together" to a hoplophobe, because that is what he is - a hoplophobe, He is not just one who holds an opposing view, he is an obsessive neurotic. You can speak, write, and illustrate the merits of the case until you drop dead, and no matter how good you are his mind will not be changed. A victim of hydrophobia will die, horribly, rather than accept the water his body desperately needs. A victim of hoplophobia will die, probably, before he will accept the fallacy of his emotional fixation for what it is.