Handguns are more convenient for home defense vs Rifles and Shotguns?

[JTHunter]

Being a childless widower, I am able to leave guns stashed around the house. One is in my computer desk in case I have to answer the door after dark. One is next to my favorite chair in the family room. Another is in my garage while the rest are in my bedroom. Most are locked in a glass-front wooden gun cabinet but 3 are on or hanging from a gun rack on the wall next to my bed. These include my .357 revolver, a 12 ga. SxS shotty, and an AK with a 40 rd. banana already inserted.
As "Alfred E. Newman" has said for so many years - "What? Me worry??"

 

[pintler]

"I found the AR to be substantially inferior in dynamics vs a handgun, ...
For me, there was no comparison, and my choice was based on hard reality in live situations"

I'd guess that 99.44% of SWAT teams use M4's when clearing a house. Can you elaborate on why either you think they are making the wrong choice, or how your use case differs from theirs?

 

[Hanzo581]

"I found the AR to be substantially inferior in dynamics vs a handgun, ...
For me, there was no comparison, and my choice was based on hard reality in live situations"

I'd guess that 99.44% of SWAT teams use M4's when clearing a house. Can you elaborate on why either you think they are making the wrong choice, or how your use case differs from theirs?

The rifle is far more potent for sure. I wonder though, at 3am in the dark when you take that first shot at that bump in the night, would you be able to see and hear after the flash and sound of a rifle indoors?

 

[DPris]

Pintler,
SWAT teams are not you & SWAT teams are not me.
SWAT runs with what they're issued, SWAT is trained to use one primary gun for just about everything, as a broad statement.
That includes indoors, outdoors, long distances, short distances.

SWAT runs with TEAMS.
You & I are not teams.
We do not train in group dynamics & we do not "operate" in group situations.
We do not have 6 or 8 other guys to either back us up or take the first bullet & leave the rest to clean up.

I've given you my reasons for my choice, based on hundreds of actual real life situations, where I did that stuff for a living. And I do not exaggerate on the number.

I've had people come out of places very quick, very close. The handgun reacts faster than the long-gun on oblique angles.

I've had people hide in places you wouldn't think a human could get into. That sometimes involves getting your gun into those same places. And you may easily have some of those in your home. I do.

I've trained with retention, and I've found the handgun is by far easier to defend against a grab.

I've had to switch hands in a hurry, I've had to switch directions in small spaces in a hurry, I've found that I couldn't light up small spaces & odd angles with a barrel-mounted light on a long gun without great contortions that would have left me with the gun unable to react suddenly if a threat had jumped out form another direction.

I could go on, but I won't bore you.
As I said- my statements & choices are based on professional experience in situations where I expected to be shot.
I don't relax with equipment that I know (yes- know) won't work as well for me, just because I'm no longer on the job.
At home, it's at least as critical to use the most efficient tool I can as it was when I cleared houses for a living.

If you seriously believe you can maneuver a long gun that weighs three times as much as a handgun, and runs five to six times longer, just as well as a handgun in the same broad range of spaces, angles, situations, conditions, and times, you are deluded.

Physics & reality both work against you.
If you have any personal experience that contradicts mine, I'm listening.

Otherwise, what SWAT does & what SWAT uses to do it have no bearing on the matter.
Denis

 

[Ignition Override]

Was yesterday's Broken Arrow OK self-defense shooting (against three masked robbers) already discussed a few times?

This is not intended to rank any rifle over a handgun. But the young man hit all three attackers, killed at least two of them.
It might have been more risky to neighbors than using a handgun, but the rifle/s mag. might have held twenty rds. or more.

Does anybody have statistics on whether handguns are preferred more than rifles or shotguns in the dangerous city of
Johannesburg, South Afrika?

Many people there in Jo'burg actually have panic rooms at home. Guys with my company travel over there.

 

[Hokkmike]

I have a pistol that holds 20 or 30 rounds depending on which magazine is selected, is ultimately reliable, and has an immediate effective "point blank" range anywhere on my property. It combines the portability of a pistol, which it is, and the capacity of an AR or AK. It can be quite a debate as to which type of weapon is optimal. If you have a big ranch and property in Wyoming I suppose a carbine or small auto loading rifle of some kind might be best. A shotgun with high capacity makes aiming a thing of the past and in that regard it is good. I am quite convinced, overall however, that a pistol of at least 10 rounds is the best HD choice. Perhaps easier to use under stress one might consider a revolver. Point is, select something and practice with it. (actual drills)

 

[FL-NC]

MY house is only about 1300 SF. The most distant shot I could take INSIDE my house is about 14 meters. Since myself and the chick are pretty proficient with a handgun. the Glocks are what is staged in the house for immediate access and HD. Specifically, 5 Glock 19's. The ones in the bedroom have attached lights, the other 3 have handheld lights stored with them. There is also a very basic AR15 with a mounted light loaded and available in the event of things getting really crazy- like an attack of some kind originating from OUTSIDE the house. I guess if I lived in a huge palatial mansion on a sprawling estate, long guns would make more sense to me.

 

[GBExpat]

... If you have a big ranch and property in Wyoming I suppose a carbine or small auto loading rifle of some kind might be best. ...

<nodding> Definitely a consideration. BTW, not directing this at Hokkmike, just using his words as a springboard ...

I interpreted the OP as referring to HD as in "inside my house", but that can easily extend to "outside my house".

I am geared to, except in dire circumstances, NOT follow & engage crooks outside of my house since once they are gone, they no longer represent an imminent threat to me.

I must confess, though, that if it weren't for the possible legal ramifications of follow & engage, I would probably be tempted (especially when I was younger).

If I considered exterior Pursuit to be an option, I would alter my pattern to include a semi-auto carbine to be slung over my shoulder at the beginning of the exercise. My exiting the house would mark the point where I holster my pistol and deploy the carbine.

 

[Hokkmike]

I am geared to, except in dire circumstances, NOT follow & engage crooks outside of my house since once they are gone, they no longer represent an imminent threat to me.

Absolutely correct. I was imagining a scenario where somebody might be stealing property around the home. I, personally, would not pursue anyone outside of my house. ( I watch too many westerns )

 

[FAS1]

Was yesterday's Broken Arrow OK self-defense shooting (against three masked robbers) already discussed a few times?

I saw that this morning. Looks like his AR-15 worked well.

http://www.guns.com/2017/03/28/man-armed-with-ar-15-fatally-shoots-three-intruders/

 

[DPris]

Outdoors in the open, where distances, spaces & angles are more adaptable to movement with a long gun, it's a different ballgame.
Denis

 

[grampajack]

Anyone use handguns for your primary home defense needs even though rifles and shotguns are more effective?

I know my AR's or my Mossbergs would be better for home defense but with children in the house I don't have a fast way to access them. I've used an electronic GunVault for years that is very fast for my Glocks. Also when checking out things that go bump in the night on the outside of my house, I find the handgun with the weapon light is way more convenient that a long gun.

Now, once the children are out of the house I will probably lean a shotgun in a corner. But even so I don't know if I would grab it instead of a handgun to see if that noise was a possum or a prowler.



Anyone deal with trade-offs like this and what did you do?

There are biometric long gun safes that are just as fast as pistol ones, though they probably cost more. I don't have kids so it's not something I have to worry about.

About the light, though...I don't think it's a good idea as a rule to use a weaponlight to search your property, because that involves pointing a loaded weapon in every direction, and possibly at the neighbor kid retrieving his frisbee in your backyard. Leaving your house period is probably a bad idea in the first place because castle doctrine no longer applies. It's far better to simply call the police; it's what you pay them for. I'm not saying I like it, but the reality is that juries don't like homeowners who go looking for trouble. Even though the law doesn't necessarily say you have to retreat, lots of people think you should, and all self defense laws basically boil down to what a jury thinks is "reasonable."

If you do choose to go outside and explore, I would leave the gun holstered and carry a flashlight that's not attached to the gun. That way if it turns out to be the neighbor's kid playing hide and seek you don't end up pointing a gun in his face, or shooting him by accident.

ETA: I would also submit that leaving your house is a bad choice tactically speaking. By removing the barriers between you and a potential bad guy, you're increasing your chances of taking a bullet by orders of magnitude. You completely give up the element of surprise and hand it to whoever is out there. My doctrine in that situation would be to turn off all inside lights and turn on all outside ones, and lock the doors while my significant other was calling the cops.

 

[FL-NC]

Handguns offer more options than rifles or shotguns; very true. Are they better for everyone? Not necessarily. Like Denis, I too have door kicker training. If I am forced to clear my house, I know how. I'd be more likely to do that coming home to an open door when it should be locked. I would already have a handgun on me, so that would be used. If someone is trying to kick my door in, I'm hunkering down in the bedroom with my 12 ga. in my hands, a .45 in the belt or next to me, and SWMBO calling 911. Many of us on THR practice with our handguns regularly, (not as much as I'd like to in my case) but most gun-owning homeowners don't. Getting to a safe room and pointing a 12 ga. or AR at the door while calling 911 might be a better option for them.

What is "door kicker training" and where does one receive it? Why would you enter any structure by yourself and attempt to clear it? I never heard of any doctrine that supports "lone operator" clearing of structures, unless it is a matter of such urgency that someone inside said structure is in jeopardy, or it is necessary for said lone operator to clear only to a point where he/she can exit the structure. Would make much more sense to me to cover the structure as best as possible and summon backup in the event that forced entry is discovered upon arrival at a home, work, etc.

 

[herrwalther]

Handguns are by definition and design handier than using a shotgun or rifle. My current situation is my carry weapon during the day becomes the HD weapon at night. I carry my weapon with a light/laser hybrid and goes in the safe the same way. I also keep a 370 lumen light on top of my nightstand for if I need more or another light source.

If a situation has gotten bad enough I need to grab my AR out of my office, there better be zombies or WWIII.

 

[DPris]

There are occasions in uniformed work where you may find yourself clearing a structure alone, or sections of one alone while another officer clears another section.

Manpower & call backlog don't always allow for a full SWAT response, a full perimeter set-up, a canine, or even more than one officer.

If I was all there was available, the situation was unconfirmed as to occupants or sufficient danger to hold off & wait, or indications suggested some sort of urgency, I was it.

And that was in the second largest city in my state, with other officers not all that far away if the balloon actually did go up.
If those officers were all on priority calls already, quite often it was necessary to go it alone.

The lone deputy way the hell out in the sticks has to do quite a bit of stuff on his or her own.
Those people gotta lotta guts.

If you've never done the job, you don't understand the job.
There are all sorts & kinds of nuances & variations & gotta-do things that go on that wouldn't in an ideal world.
Denis

 

[entropy]

What is "door kicker training" and where does one receive it? Why would you enter any structure by yourself and attempt to clear it? I never heard of any doctrine that supports "lone operator" clearing of structures, unless it is a matter of such urgency that someone inside said structure is in jeopardy, or it is necessary for said lone operator to clear only to a point where he/she can exit the structure. Would make much more sense to me to cover the structure as best as possible and summon backup in the event that forced entry is discovered upon arrival at a home, work, etc.

I got mine courtesy of a Force Recon BCT that was using our MOUT at Ft. Ord. If I'd called the PD everytime my kid forgot to latch the door, they'd have tired of me quickly. He does latch it now-if I could only get him to lock it consistently.......

 

[Panzerschwein]

A handgun is only there because it is to fight your way back to the rifle or shotgun that you never should have put down to begin with.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I have said this for years and God willing I will say it for years to come. A pistol is a pistol and a rifle is a rifle. A pistol is meant to defend your person. A shotgun is meant to defend your home and a rifle is meant to defend yourself on your property.
After 20 years in the Army I always felt sorry for those who carried a pistol while deployed. I will never trust a pistol in my hands and I shoot pistol competition.
Most people that I have come across do not receive enough training with a pistol.

 

[hso]

Full size pistol is the primary for HD at night/anytime.

There is an AR that would be available but I really hope I don't ever have to unleash it inside the house.

While some folks claim to set muffs/buds right next to their bedside gun I doubt most folks actually do. Any long gun without ears in the house is going to be hell on the ears and in all but the most extreme circumstances probably isn't warranted in the first place.


To each their own but a semi pistol with an extra mag or two should have you sleeping just fine.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-1-the-original-box-o-truth/

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-17-i-hear-you-knocking-metal-doors/

From an "overpenetration" standpoint it really doesn't much matter what you choose unless you're setting up hard cover inside your home.

 

[bassjam]

I think there's a ton of folks on here that overestimate their abilities with a handgun. Sure, it may be faster on target and easier to maneuver in tight spaces, but that doesn't mean you'll actually hit anything!!

I've hunted rabbits with shotguns, .22 rifles, and .22 handguns. You know what, its REALLY hard to nab a rabbit with a handgun, but even when I'm neck deep in sticker bushes I can normally shoulder my shotgun and get off a kill shot when a bunny jumps 10 feet in front of me. I can ping a 5" gong at 40 yards every time with my .22 handgun when practicing, but I've missed a lot of bunnies at 5-15 yards during a hunt with that same handgun. And that's when I'm hunting for fun and have had a good breakfast and my coffee, not at 3AM when I'm in fear for my life!

Handguns may be less unwieldy in tight spaces, but nothing beats the intuitive aiming of a shouldered long gun.

 

[DPris]

It ain't rabbits I worry about inside the house & I don't fall among your "ton of folks".
Said my piece in response to the original question, out of this one.
Denis

 

[bassjam]

It ain't rabbits I worry about inside the house & I don't fall among your "ton of folks".
Said my piece in response to the original question, out of this one.
Denis

If you've been in stressful situations and know your training carries over to that, more power to you. But most people don't have any experience outside of their local range when they're practicing in relatively prefect conditions. My point to hunting is just that I've been in less than ideal situations when I've had to shoot, and I know the benefits that a rifle or shotgun give in those situations. I can only assume that's amplified in a life/death situation.

 

[Teachu2]

If I have to go outside to investigate noises, I'll take a 12ga pump, and my EDC. Inside, it is my EDC. I train and practice far more with my EDC than anything else, it frees up my off hand, and gives me better maneuverability. Outside, things that go bump usually have four legs and eat meat.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

As many have stated, the pistol offers flexibility with the off hand.

If you have to grab kids or open doors, the pistol makes sense.
Some may argue that pistols are harder for a bad guy to grab while indoors, but without appropriate technique it could be just as much an issue.

A rifle/shotgun offers a lot more power, precision, etc. Makes great sense to bring as much gun as you can to the problem.

They both have have their place, but will be different for each individuals needs.

 

[grampajack]

There are occasions in uniformed work where you may find yourself clearing a structure alone, or sections of one alone while another officer clears another section.

Years ago, someone was trying to get into our shed in the middle of the night. The chief of police came out, in coveralls, and cleared all the outbuildings with a .357 revolver and a maglight. I kind of imagine that's what most departments are dealing with out in rural areas.

.......................................................................................

On another note (this is addressed to the group at large), who ever said handguns were faster than long guns? I'm way faster on target with a rifle or shotgun than I am a pistol, especially if it's a black rifle with a dot sight on it. I also didn't see anyone address the ballistic differences between pistol and rifle calibers. You guys ought to talk to some ER surgeons who work the night shift and ask them whether they'd rather be shot with a 9mm or a .223. People who get shot with handguns often walk into the ER under their own power; people who get shot with rifles generally come in unconscious on a gurney. To get the "stopping power" of a .223 in a handgun you would have to be using something along the lines of a 500 S&W or Desert Eagle. And that's not even saying anything about follow up shots. You can put shots on target faster and more accurately with a carbine. So more power, more shots on target, faster. What's not to love?

As for flexibility, get a two point sling. Most people can actually operate a carbine one handed if they have to, assuming the weight is reasonable, so you still have the option of using your other hand to carry a kid or whatever. And at least the sling gives you the option of using both hands, where a pistol you would have to actually set it down, or tuck it into your tighty whities and hope for the best...