Rifle for home defense

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Correia said:
Tell you what. You shoot a wall with a .45 JHP and 800+ FPS, and I'll shoot it with a 55 grain varmit bullet at 2,700+ FPS, and we'll see who has more penetration. This is a huge and misunderstood myth.

Not to be contrary for its own sake, but while I've also heard the above said elsewhere, are there any scientific-like tests out there to compare the difference in drywall (or other internal wall mockup) to pistol rounds?

The Box doesn't have any definitive word on drywall alone (all rounds went through 12 "walls"), but using stiffer pine boards, the .223 far out-penetrated all handgun rounds, even if it did yaw like mad.
 
Tell you what. You shoot a wall with a .45 JHP and 800+ FPS, and I'll shoot it with a 55 grain varmit bullet at 2,700+ FPS, and we'll see who has more penetration. This is a huge and misunderstood myth.

Rifle rounds including the 5.56 will easily go through several sheets of wood, and sheetrock. A pistol round will go through sheetrock but most likly will be stoped or deflected by a solid wood frame. It might be best to use a frangiable round when inside, or maybe even birdshot.
 
I keep hearing

that some carbine packs a lot more power than a pistol. My 10mm with 16 rounds ready to go, each one 200gr @ 1230fps is quite near the power or maybe a little more than some carbines. It has about the same muzzle energy as a 30/30 rifle at a hundred yards. I can engage multiple targets faster with this pistol than I can with my AK74 and am pretty sure the stopping power is as good or better than the 223 or 5.45x39.
 
that some carbine packs a lot more power than a pistol. My 10mm with 16 rounds ready to go, each one 200gr @ 1230fps is quite near the power or maybe a little more than some carbines.

10mm is towards the tops of available defensive handguns, but even then when you look at the actual injuries produced, the .223 will still produce a bigger wound.

It has about the same muzzle energy as a 30/30 rifle at a hundred yards.

:scrutiny: I don't think that is correct. But even if it was, you aren't shooting them at 100. You are shooting them across your home.

I can engage multiple targets faster with this pistol than I can with my AK74 and am pretty sure the stopping power is as good or better than the 223 or 5.45x39.

As a competitive shooter, in action pistol (IDPA/IPSC), an avid 3gunner, and a firearms instructor, if you can engage targets faster and more accurately with a pistol than with a carbine, you need to be shown how to shoot a carbine more effectively.

Comparing a stocked weapon vs. a handgun, the stocked weapon will be easier to get hits with from anything past conversation distance, to way the heck out there.

I don't say that to be offensive, but a shoulder fired weapon is just faster and eaiser to use once you know how. The problem is that many shooters keep thinking of CQB style carbines as hunting rifles, and they shoot them chicken winged, with the high elbow, traditional bladed off rifleman style. There is nothing slower or more awkward.

When you shoot a carbine for HD, you want a shorter stock, and you want to hunch down behind the gun, with the elbows locked down. (another reason a lot of posters who don't know how to use one make fun of vertical foregrips). When you do this, it looks almost like an aggresive iso stance pistol shooter. You swivel quickly, you can move quickly, etc.

And .223 and 5.45 will beat your 10mm. I like 10mm, but it is a handgun cartridge.

The Box doesn't have any definitive word on drywall alone (all rounds went through 12 "walls"), but using stiffer pine boards, the .223 far out-penetrated all handgun rounds, even if it did yaw like mad.

Anything that has the potency to seriously hurt a human being is going to zip through building material. I don't have anything scientific, but in my own personal shooting, I notice that the 55 grain bullets have a lot more issues going through various materials than pistol bullets.

And even if it didn't fragment like you would hope (there's a reason TAP is the best selling ammo amongst people that shoot guns indoors for a living) I would rather be hit by a yawing 55 grain sideways bullet than a still on a ballistic trajectory undeformed 9mm.
 
ripcurlksm said:
I will take Condition #3 for now. Thoughts?

I suggest you train for whatever you finally decide on until it becomes second nature. Keep in mind that the bedside gun is what's grabbed right after rising immediately from a deep sleep. I think that even more prudence in identifying your target is in order.

I would say that an HD gun doesn't have to be quite as ready as one that is carried. Hopefully, your home is set up such that the chances of a bad guy sneaking into your bedroom without waking you up long before are next to nothing. Of course, if you carry this gun, you almost certainly want to keep it in the same condition on your nightstand as your belt.

One of the many valuable things I learned on this site was establishing lanes of fire in your house. It's nice to know ahead of time where you have tactical advantages and, more importantly (to me), where you have good backstops.

As far as a chambered round right next to your head, I wouldn't worry about that. First of all, the muzzle should be pointed in a safe direction at all times. Second, you'll get used to cocked and locked.

Personally, I keep a USP cocked and locked within arm's reach at night and feel fine doing so. Lately, I've been spending a lot more time on making the house and bedroom harder to get into in the first place, though. I'd rather have a gun than not if I wake up to a stranger in my bedroom, but either way, I'm probably screwed.
 
"...Actually, the Mauser has has the most work over the last several years...a rabid fox and feral dogs..."

whoa! what was left of the fox? dead.gif

"...I will take Condition #3 for now. Thoughts?..."

i know how you feel. that's why i use a 9mm DA/SA pistol for carry & the nightstand. i could use my .40 HiPower on the nightstand but i don't like to have a cocked SA around, especially with kids. i need to see the hammer down but also know i'm ready to fire at all times.

for HD, i reach for the 20 gauge Mossberg cruiser with 4 rounds of #3 buckshot & 1 round of something shorter like heavy field load. and the 9mm is always close. i'm in a pretty dense neighborhood so overpenetration is a real concern (although my walls are plaster & lath so they're very hefty).
 
I will take Condition #3 for now. Thoughts?

Thanks for your thoughts guys. As I get more comfortable with it I may move it up to chambered & half cocked. But part of me does not want to be overly paranoid - a.k.a. like some of you who take your gun in the shower :neener: - I am 25 and I have been unarmed for 24.5 years of my life and I am still alive! Like I said, now I at least have SOMETHING in the event of an emergency to protect myself. So whether it is loaded or stored I have some sort of protection. I am more concerned with being able to afford range fees and .45 cal ammo :evil: on targets than BG's

take care friends.
 
correia

TAP ammunition

What does TAP stand for? I assume its an acronym of some sort.


Tell you what. You shoot a wall with a .45 JHP and 800+ FPS, and I'll shoot it with a 55 grain varmit bullet at 2,700+ FPS, and we'll see who has more penetration. This is a huge and misunderstood myth.

Ya, that is shown here:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot12.htm

9mm goes through 4 wall just fine. Not even deflected. 5.56mm sometimes goes through 4 walls. Other times it gets stopped by 3. In a apartment complex I wonder if that's going to make a difference though.
 
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