Rifle for home defense

[Sharps-shooter]

Since I joined a couple weeks ago, I've noticed a lot of people talking about getting this or that type of gun for home defense. For instance "I've been thinking about switching to a rifle for home defense". I just have one question-- What does that mean?

Almost all of my guns live with me, here at the house. Should i pick one to be my "home defense" gun? Which one i would use to defend my home against an invader depends on which one I could get to and, if time isn't such an issue, what I want the gun to do. Doesn't it?

a shotgun would be ideal in some situations. Especially if it was attack by birds, like in alfred hitchcock.. but I digress. a handgun might be better in others. Depending on where I was, and where the threat was at the time, I might have to use my pocketknife-- to get to a gun or clear of the situation. It would be worth a try.

Once, as a kid at a babysitter's house, someone outside, with a handgun, was screaming obscene threats and trying to break down the door. It went on for half an hour before police arrived. If that happened here, I might consider putting a large game round through the door.

But in most situations, my home defense wepon would be whatever was closest at hand, wouldn't it? or am I supposed to shoulder my tactical shotgun at all times? or what?

anyway, I'd love to hear clarification on this.

 

[mountainclmbr]

It depends on the situation. If a person lived in an urban apartment complex where a heavy rifle round may go through 3 or 4 apartments that are adjacent or across the street, the risk and liability of harm to unintended targets is very high even if it were only from emotional distress lawsuits from the ambulance chasers. In this situation a 375 H&H Magnum may not be the best choice. For a person living in remote Alaska with risk of grizzly bear attack, the 375 H&H Magnum would be a great choice. I know from my own experience that there is often little or no time to open a gun safe and choose between various firearms options. It is often a matter of seconds and the gun under the bed has to do. If small children are around it puts an additional complication on the fast access vs. safety trade off. There are so many trades between possible risks and protection solutions that there is no one right answer.

 

[ctdonath]

Most guns owned by most people are locked up, unloaded, non-functional and/or inaccessible most of the time. When you need a gun RIGHT NOW (home invasion, some critter trying to eat your dog, riots, or some other violent assault underway) or REAL SOON NOW (natural disaster, political situations heading toward violence, or some other you're-the-last-of-law-enforcement's-worries situation looming), one wishes the right tool had already been prepared for prompt use. You don't want to find out too late that you forgot to put the scope back on the hunting rifle, you're out of ammo for the shotgun, or that your pistol has rusted shut.

The issue you refer to is: people realize that they need at least one gun reliably ready for immediate defense. Your home is your castle, and you're the only one who will defend it. Long story short, these frequent and long-running discussions conclude that a rifle is most often voted best for home defense - something that is applicable to any reasonably conceivable range from contact to hundreds of yards, will reliably function, is precise, will punch thru concealment and minor cover, and will most likely drop (or at least give major pause for thought) any attacker.

To summarize the issues...

Handguns are just not powerful enough. Eighty-some percent of people shot with handguns survive - to oversimplify, this does not bode well for self-defense. A handgun is simply the most firepower we can cram into a package that small, and isn't really enough.

Shotguns are great for short range and limited over-penetration. Providing a powerful impact up close, any notable distance quickly limits effectiveness. The relatively tiny magazine and painfully slow reload times are a big negative.

Rifles remain. Energy levels meeting or exceeding shotgun ammo, reliable stopping power, penetration, distance to practically all conceivable needs, rapid reloads, and (for some) large capacity magazines pretty much make it the tool of choice when thought about enough.

Once chosen the gun (whatever it is) must be maintained to be functional, reliable, and accessible - at all times. Debates rage over what exactly what any of these factors entail.

The upshot is: think about your personal situation, environment, needs, and expectations. See what input others can provide. Prepare.
If you, in your own home, can't have a suitably capable weapon in hand within 15 seconds, something is wrong - and you don't want to find that out when someone is bashing in your front door.

 

[Ritchie]

It depends on your situation. Since I've been shooting the same 1911
for more years than I have appendages and its usually on or about my
person, its sort of a default, but that's me.
If your situation is suited to a rifle, that could give you much greater
effect than a handgun. The .223/5.56 with a standard 55 grain
military load is generally regarded as having much more power than a
handgun, but the high-velocity light bullet has less danger of over
penetration since it tends to fragment in interior walls. This all
comes from study of other peoples work, since I am not presently
equipped to make such tests just now. Keep in mind considerations of
safe but ready storage for your situation, and imagine the Keystone
Kops possibilities that doorways and halls hold for long guns.


Listen to River. Do not annoy her

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I live in the 'burbs, and my HD gun I guess would be my SKS...since a scoped 10/22 isn't really the best option. I have no doubt that it will stop anyone, nobody can take 10 hits, close range, of 7.62x39 rounds. But, I do worry about overpenetration since all I have on hand are FMJ. But, that's a risk I have to take I suppose.

But anyway, yes, many would argue that handguns are underpowered. However, my dad, ex-cop, says that the three most important things you must remember if you need to shoot someone to stop aggression are as follows:

Bullet placement
Bullet placement
Bullet placement

 

[WeedWhacker]

Shotguns are great for short range and limited over-penetration. Providing a powerful impact up close, any notable distance quickly limits effectiveness. The relatively tiny magazine and painfully slow reload times are a big negative.

AGP Arms (agparms.com) just finished the very first run of 10-round 12-gauge magazines for the Saiga-12 shotgun. Heh heh heh. I own three at the moment. MSRP is ~55-60 bucks per, last I'd checked.

As for which weapon you'd want ready to go, what is your living situation? Do you live alone (or with a responsible spouse), or are there kids around? Do you live in a paper-and-tinfoil apartment, or do you live in a stone house on ten acres of land?

Here's my scenario: I live alone in an apartment in a fairly high-crime area. I live on the end of the building with the exterior building wall on two sides, one being the entrance/exit. I leave a 12-gauge shotgun in the bedroom, safety on, with a round in the chamber. I flip-flop between keeping slugs (which I very much prefer) and 00 buckshot in the shotgun. (ANY adequate defensive round will penetrate interior walls, so do your best to plot the safest lines of fire beforehand.)
In the event that I have to use my shotgun against an intruder, I'm hopeful that 1. I hit the bad guy and 2. the interior walls, my exterior wall, the 20 yards of open space, and the other building's exterior wall will be sufficient to stop any strays.

Rifles, even carbines, in a city just don't seem to be the best choice, if a person *has* a choice.

As for effectiveness, Ohio Rifleman's dad has the proper advice. As an aside, the 12-gauge 00 buckshot shell has nine 9mm pellets...

YMMV.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

a shotgun would be ideal in some situations. Especially if it was attack by birds, like in alfred hitchcock..

Sorry but you're wrong, shotguns don't only shoot bird shot. I use a shotgun for HD but it's loaded with 5 rounds of 00 buck. For those who don't know, 00 buck will fire 9X .33 cal projectiles at once. You can stop a bear or a 300 lb man with 1 shot. Since most shotguns will hold 5 I would hardly call that limited.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

A lot of good ideas and things said already in this thread, I'm going to add to it.


Handguns are fine for HD. One thing many people don't mention in these reoccuring threads is that for someone who doesn't practice moving in a confined space like a home with a rifle - a pistol might be a better choice since it would be less clumsy. The last thing you want to do in the middle of the night is have your barrel clip a wall and the rifle either smacks you in the face or lands on the floor in the DARK. With a handgun, you're far more likely of knowing where your hand is vs. knowing where a muzzle is.


In terms of controllability. A rifle is much easier to point and shoot and deliver lead to the intended target than a handgun. It also has significantly more power in its cartridge over a handgun. Which means a hit with a rifle is far, far more likely to stop the threat than a hit with a handgun - all things being equal, such as shot placement.


Shotguns are fine, but they are slower to reload, thus decreasing firepower, have higher recoil, thus increasing shot to shot recovery time, and at HD distances, offer no increase in hit % since the spread of the shot from a cylinder bore and shortest legal barrel is not significant within homes. Unless you live in a mansion.


Generally speaking, it is a bad idea to venture out of your immediate space in a HD situation. The best plan is to fortify yourself in the room, stay low, and aim at the door. In such a scenario, the length of a firearm is not a big concern.


My personal tastes are:


Intermediate rifle cartridge.
Auto-loader.
Minimum 10rd capacity.
A focus on reliability above all else.
Quick deployment (no gadgets).

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Rifle for HD?

SharpsShooter,

1) My own situation:

I have had some occasion to ponder this myself. For this exercise, I will ignore the presence of the .40 cal and .357 sidearms, and address only the rifles.

Our house is, while not huge, big enough to provide some tactical variety.
We have a >60-foot open space from our front door to the back of the den. Our master bedroom door is right off the den, so stepping out of the bedroom places me in line of sight of

a) a 60-foot shot to the front door
b) a 30-foot shot to the dining room and game room
c) a 20-foot shot to the kitchen and interior garage door.​

If I move to the dining room where it joins the game room I have a 20-foot shot into the living room and a 15-shot into the hallway entrance. If I move into the living room, I have a 40-foot shot down the hall. Down that hall are three bedrooms: one very cluttered 20x15 room (this was the original master), and two 14x14 bedrooms, one empty, one full of random stuff, and the front bathroom.

If the encounter occurred in the space commanded by the bedroom door position, a light rifle would be ideal. As one gets closer to the hallway, the viability of a rifle declines: things are just too tactically cramped. Yes, one could still use a rifle in those spaces; it just gets tricky. At that point a sidearm of some description is more manageable.

I have three (actually four) rifles that would work well for the open spaces: Beretta CX4, M1 Carbine, Camp 9 Carbine, Marlin 336C in 30-30. Of these, the quickest handling of the lot is the CX4, followed by the M1 Carbine. The Camp 9 is short enough, easy to shoot from most positions, and offers the same firepower as the CX4 and M1 Carb.

The 30-30 would not be my first or second choice, but I have both regular 150 grain softpoint and 55 grain Accelerator ammo (think .223 round fired from a lever gun). Loading a pair of 55 grain rounds first, followed by a full-power 150 grain allows for two tries with a moderately powered round, after which it can be assumed that "Scotty! I need more power!"

Next month I will have the 1894C, which will give better loading options for house parties. Some hot +p .38 JHP up front followed by full-fledged .357 rounds would do a better (and more manageable) job than the 30-30 in close quarters.

But my first (rifle) pick would be the CX4. Light, short, quick, well-balanced and ergonomic. Alternate FMJ & JHP. Less noise than the M1 Carb and way less noise than the 30-30.
​

2) Your situation:

Again, I'm going to ignore sidearms and address only the rifle option. The election of long arm over a sidearm is, of course, predicated on its making sense for the layout of your inside real estate.

I noticed in one of your earlier posts that you shoot a 45/70, presumably a lever gun, with 10 shots on target in the span of a minute. Under the circumstances, you would likely have no trouble with a lever gun in .357, so that might be a viable choice for you.

If you chose to keep a rifle handy for home engagements, it would make sense for it to be light, short, quick-handling, and adequately-but-not-over-powered.

There are so many choices available that it's likely one of your existing stable is probably all of those things. In my case I actually bought certain rifles with "ranch defense" in mind. I don't know what you have available, but unless your whole rack is .308s and 30-06s, there's probably something useable.

And if I'm wrong, you have my permission to pick up something new at your local shoppe.
​

All of that having been said, I would be comfortable standing my ground with a rifle (where "comfortable" is pulse = 166bpm, respiration = hyperventilating) to keep my family safe.

Haven't figured out how I'd manage both a rifle and the S&W in my bathrobe. That would surely be entertaining.

 

[ceetee]

It's long been said that a handgun is mostly for fighting your way back to the rifle you should have never left in the first place. That said...

I live in a mostly urban setting. The houses in my neighborhood are all on one to five acre lots. As such, even though they're not "right next door", they're weel within range of most rifle rounds. My home defense, therefore, must include the possibilities of shots ranging from belly distance to around forty yards. If I'm shooting at anything much past forty yards, the target is probably leaving, and I have no business shooting, anyway.

My HD weaponry include .40 S&W pistols, .357 revolvers, and a 12 ga pump-action shotgun (loaded with three inch, 00 buck... lots of pellets, and I'm thinking the action will be well over and the adrenaline wearing off before I feel the recoil... Slugs are on the sidesaddle.)

 

[TexasRifleman]

My HD weaponry include .40 S&W pistols, .357 revolvers, and a 12 ga pump-action shotgun (loaded with three inch, 00 buck... lots of pellets,

All 3 of which will penetrate the average dwelling wall, and at least 2 of them probably have enough energy to hurt someone on the other side.

It appears from looking at what LEOs are experiencing that 5.56 actually penetrates walls LESS OFTEN (or at least with less energy remaining) than the common handgun rounds, which is why you see the transition to the LE carbine so often.

Home defense with a carbine in 5.56 makes good sense. M14 in .308? Maybe not so much

 

[WeedWhacker]

Rifle penetration vs pistol rounds

I've heard the same rumors, that 5.56 doesn't penetrate walls very well... The Box seems to indicate that rifles of any caliber have a lot of penetrating power.

 

[Rickstir]

I have a mixture, 870 with 7 rounds of 00 buck, AK-47 with 30 round mag, 92FS with 15 rounds of JHP. All in a distance of 1 to 5 feet. Along with a Surefire G2 and me cell phone. Wife has a Taurus 94 .22 lr than holds 9. This is not ideal but it is the one she shoots the best. By the way, way out in the country, no kids, six dogs - 5 in the house 1 outside. Oh yeah, a rooster, but he ain't much good at night.

 

[foghornl]

First up at Foggy's Castle is the Springfield "GI-45", then the Maverick 88 12-Ga pump, with 3"Mag #4 Buck.

If I run those dry, then it is time for the Most Serious Artillery...the US Rifle Cal .30 M1 Popularly Known As "The Garand"

 

[Sharps-shooter]

I guess if someone breaks in I'll empty the magazine on the ar 15, then empty the 12-gauge into them, then shoot them with the buffalo rifle. That last shot should be straight down, so it will just end up in the crawl space when it overpenetrates.

it's so confusing about overpenetration, because you get so many different stories. I've heard that 5.56 will penetrate less than handgun rounds, but on the box of truth it penetrated 12 sheets of drywall (6 inner walls, if you don't hit a stud. and the walls are only a few inches apart). I think that was plain old fmjbt bullets. I guess it stands to reason that anything that will kill a person will also go through a few pieces of drywall.

It might be interesting to go into a house in a remote area, one that was going to be demolished anyway, perhaps, and shoot the place up from the inside with various gauges and calibers of weaponry. Might give some more realistic data?

you would expect ballistics to be just trigonometry and physics, but I guess it's not that simple.

 

[Chilean]

My plan
Inside the house - glock 22
backyard - my 870
for reaching out- my savage 10flp

chilean

 

[Correia]

I'm a bonafide shotgun fanatic. Ask Dave McCracken or sm.

However this is what I'm going to go with inside my house:

http://www.fbmginc.com/index.php?pa...ufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

That gun in the picture was our first one, and is my personal gun.

Back to the original posts question, when we refer to the HD gun, I believe that is the one that is near the bed, and is the most likely weapon to be used in a given emergency.

I can be armed from anywhere in my home in about 2 seconds.

 

[TallPine]

Almost all of my guns live with me, here at the house. Should i pick one to be my "home defense" gun? Which one i would use to defend my home against an invader depends on which one I could get to and, if time isn't such an issue, what I want the gun to do. Doesn't it?

Your "home defense rifle" is the one that you choose to keep loaded and in a readily accessible location whenever you are home. Unless, of course - you choose to have several such rifles at various points throughout your house.

If it's unloaded and locked in a safe, then it's no more a home defense gun than a frozen turkey is thanksgiving dinner.


What you choose all depends on your situation. For me it is a .357 revolver on my belt anytime I am up and dressed, and a loaded 7.62*39 Saiga under the bed at night. (I live in the middle of 40 acres, and the primary reason for the rifle is penetration )

 

[mpmarty]

I too

am on 40 acres and don't give a hoot about overpenetration. No kids, dog is below my line of fire. Bedside table has 10MM Witness with sixteen Winchester 175gr silvertips in it on my side of the bed three feet away from that in easy open case are a pair of .45s a SA XD45 and a CZ TT45 both with cor bon 200 grain flying ashtrays 14 in the XD and 11 in the CZ and yes, I can fire weak hand and hit what I am looking at. Next in the closet hanging on the back of the inside of the door is my Mossy 500 Persuader with six 3" #4 buck rounds I guess if I have to leave the bedroom I'll just have to gather pistols from various rooms as I go cause there are more scattered around the house but my plan is to stay put in the bedroom and repel boarders. Oh yeah, I almost forgot my wifes bedside table has her 9mm with cor bons and an extra mag of the same.

 

[ROCKSHUND]

Would you believe, here in rural western NC mountains...

M96 Swedish Mauser, w/ 5 rounds of 160 grain Sierra ProHunter handloads kept bedside.

Glock 27, 10 rounds of Fed JHP and Trijicons, and Surefire 6P kept bedside.

Ruger 10/22 in closet, 10 rounds of CCI Minimag HP's in master closet.

Actually, the Mauser has has the most work over the last several years...a rabid fox and feral dogs. -FNR.

 

[ROCKSHUND]

Oops, forgot the Daisy Red Ryder by the front door...chases the squirrels off the bird feeders...pretty useless when Mr & Mrs BlackBear visit the squirrel feeders... -FNR.

 

[ripcurlksm]

..

With lots of discussion on handguns, shotguns and rifles - from my point of view at least you have SOMETHING. So everyone here has a good start

I recently purchased my first firearm a Kimber .45 ACP handgun, and after years of sleeping with a knife or axe next to my bed i finally have SOMETHING.

I am looking forward to purchasing a shotgun to do some trap shooting. If the sh1t ever hit the fan, I would feel safe with either my 45 or shottie, whichever is closer.

When I first got my 45 I kept it in my nightstand in Condition #4 (magazine out). After I shot it more and I became more comfortable with the weapon I moved to storing it in Condition #3 (magazine in, no bullet chambered). I have considered storing my handgun with a bullet in the chamber and half cocked, however I am not at that point yet as I have only had my pistol for 14 days. I suppose the second it takes to rack the slide and chamber a round is worth the peice of mind of not having a chambered round next to my head and it wont matter because either I get a few seconds warning giving me time to chamber a round or I suppose the other end of the spectrum is that I have zero time and the BG is already in my room as I sleep.

I will take Condition #3 for now. Thoughts?

Respectfully,

 

[cbsbyte]

Is a rifle good for home defense? Well only if you have to defend your home from bears. Depending on where you live, it is probably not a good idea to use a rifle for home defense. First rifles are long and can be cumbersome to move around in tight quarters. In the tight confines, it might make it easier for the assailant to grasp the barrel and take the weapon away from you. Then their is the concern about the blast will be allot louder than a handgun. Also their is a good chance the round could pass through the assailant, a wall and then into a love one, or through an outer wall into a neighbors house. It probably best to use a handgun or a shotgun for indoor use.

 

[Correia]

Is a rifle good for home defense? Well only if you have to defend your home from bears.

I don't think .223 is anyone's choice for bear. Rifles do come in different calibers you know. I don't think any of us are suggesting a .338 Lapua for HD.

Depending on where you live, it is probably not a good idea to use a rifle for home defense. First rifles are long and can be cumbersome to move around in tight quarters. In the tight confines, it might make it easier for the assailant to grasp the barrel and take the weapon away from you.

Nope. I would suggest you attend a carbine course. Not all rifles are long. If you extend your pistol in a Weaver or an Iso, your gun is sticking out about as far as a carbine.

If you do have to move, you move with the muzzle down in a low ready, eyes up. Don't stick your muzzle through doorways and nobody is going to take it from you.

As for taking it away from you, once again, attend an urban carbine class.

Plus, if you have the option, it is always better to wait for the badguy to come to you, than for you to wander around your house. In that case, I want to hit him with something with a lot more juice than my handgun.

Then their is the concern about the blast will be allot louder than a handgun.

True. But a carbine packs a whole lot more whallop than a handgun.

I do worry about my hearing. Look at the gun in my link above and you can see what my opinion is on the matter.

I touched off a 30 round magazine in a tiny concrete basement once with an unsuppressed AR. It was loud. I did damage my hearing. But I could still function just fine.

Also their is a good chance the round could pass through the assailant, a wall and then into a love one, or through an outer wall into a neighbors house.

Tell you what. You shoot a wall with a .45 JHP and 800+ FPS, and I'll shoot it with a 55 grain varmit bullet at 2,700+ FPS, and we'll see who has more penetration. This is a huge and misunderstood myth.

There is a good reason that almost every SWAT team in the country is switching from a 9mm MP5 to an M4 of some type using something like TAP ammunition.

It probably best to use a handgun or a shotgun for indoor use.

Negative on that. Most of your concerns are unfounded, or easily adjusted to with proper training and equipment.

 

[Eyesac]

+1 for the AR .223