Harassed by police in Thermopolis, WY

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Makes me mad that people can't walk down the sidewalk without being detained. It made me think about Rambo in "Jerkwater", USA.
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Perhaps there was, or were, crimes committed in your area: burglaries, robbery, rape, you just don't know, and they were looking for a possible suspect. Be happy they are out there protecting your community. Their job is not an easy one, give them some credit.
 
I sure know the feeling from that experience. One night after dinner in a hotel in Newport Beach, CA I went for a stroll down the main street the hotel was located on. It was well after dark, about 10:00 PM. With a half mile of the hotel I drew one helicopter with search light and two squad cars. The officers did not emerge from their cars at the curb. They just looked me over and called a Code 4 to the 'copter. My reaction was suprise but not anger or irritation. Just doing their job looking out for the people of Newport Beach.

We would like ot think the police lacked an articulatable "reasonable suspicion" when asking for your ID. Fact is, they are not obliged to provide you with that reasonable suspicion at the time of the stop. You have to take it on faith that such a standard had been met. If you were arrested for something then in court they had better have something intelligent to say about why they demanded your ID- what was that reasonable suspicion.

Are you sure he did not ask a question like, "Do you mind showing me your ID?" That falls under the Right-to-Ask-a-Question and requires no articulatable or descriptive suspicion. You, of course, had the right to decline to show him an ID.

These stops and detentions are very finely drawn in most state statutes. My POV is based entirely upon the NM Criminal Code. However, NM is much like many other states. It would take someone far better educated than me to differentiate.

Sorry it happened to you but I am glad you both walked away unharmed.

BTW. I would not call that "harassment" but it is irritating none the less.
 
I can't understand why gun owners on a pro-gun forum are ridiculing a fellow gun owner for carrying two full-sized guns.
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You have to admit, it is a bit unusual and not the common practice. However, to each his own. Whatever rocks your socks or floats your boat.
 
3. Yes, you should say "My name is so and so, and I am carrying a weapon". If you are legal and have nothing to hide, then what's the problem with being honest? Keep your hands in a non-threatening posture, and work WITH the cops, not against them. Remember, we are not mind readers.
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Working WITH the cops is good for the cops, but often not good for the person being stopped.

If you are legal and have nothing to hide, then what's the problem with being honest?
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That seems to be the key of a lot of police thinking. What's the problem? #1 Erosion of rights
#2 no one knows all the laws, consent to a search, cop finds something he erroniously believes illegal, you now spend 2 days in jail and have big legal fees.
#3 no one knows all the laws, you may have inadvertantly broken a minor one, and a cop whose wife just left him isn't going to let it slide...they are human too.

I mean, that's a great line to use to get someone to consent to a search. Heck, it's a classic. "You don't have anythign to hide, right? So you won't mind me searching your car, right?"


If a LEO decides to say hello & strike up a conversation or even tries to "fish", it's generally called a "consensual encounter". In other words, there is no reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity is afoot. You can't seize this person or search them for that matter.
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Same as with the above 3. The police before the conversation are at a point where they don't have enough evidence for an arrest, so you can only LOOSE by talking.

I am sure if a month from now we had beatcop and franco at the bar and asked them 'So, how many times have you ended up arresting a because he didn't know when to shut up and just talked himself deeper and deeper into a hole' I am sure they'd have plenty.

Most communities label their police contacting someone out of place at midnight "good police work." Small and/or affluent communities expect and demand it; larger ones lament the lack of such regular service.
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Back in the 1950's most communities labeled it good police work when the LEOs ran any strange colored folk out of town.

Just because a community labels something as good police work does not make it good police work, nor legal.


Such contacts also frequently come about for the purpose of identifying or ruling out suspects of ongoing criminal investigations. You may have merely been in the wrong place at the wrong time. The contact, that being the case? Legitimate. The explanation? Purposefully lacking.
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Police exist to arrest. I can't say I totally fault them for attempting to talk a guy up and hope he gives enough info to arrest him on something. But I will tell anyone the cops come up to to 'shut your yap and do not cooperate'

The explanation? Purposefully lacking
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Yes, and you say it like it is a bad thing. Giving the legal minimum amount of info is smart. It's the same as paying the minium amount for your purchase. You'd not pay extra money just because the store clerk manning the register asked you to, would you? Then why give the LEO additional non-necessary info?
 
When I get pulled over I pull as far as I can off the road, roll down the window, turn off the car, turn on the dome light (at night) and keep my hands on the wheel till the officer comes up. I then will try and beat him to the punch and ask why I was stopped. 9 times out of 10 the officers are nice and there is no reason to go into strict protect your rights mode. Also in PA there is no requirement for me to announce that I'm armed. Armed or not I never make sudden movements and try and keep my hands on the wheel/in view at all times. This includes when the officer goes back to his cruiser.
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Remember, just because a question seems polite and reasonable and chatty doesn't mean it is.

"Do you know why I pulled you over?" Sounds good. You can be 99% sure you know why, but shut your yap, or say "NO" then shut your yap.

Unless you are a mind reader you don't know why.

While 'do you know why I pulled you over' sounds reasonable and friendly, the kicker is if you say 'speeding' and then a half minute later realize that hey, you crossed from the 35MPH zone to the 45MHP, and hence weren't speeding, too late you already admitted to it.

Second, you never know for sure why you got pulled over. It might have been 'failure to signal' but if you say 'speeding' and his next question is 'how fast were you going' you just potentially talked yourself into another ticket.

Heaven forbid you say something like "Umm, because you saw me throw a beer can out the window?"

When asked 'do you know why I pulled you over?" I respond with No.

When asked 'why were you speeding? where are you going? etc' I ignore the question and say "What can I do to help officer?" and when asked for my DL "Here is my license officer, I believe everything is current"

You can be reasonable and polite AND maintain your rights. However it sometimes requires you to ignore their question, and ask one of your own instead.

Saying "what can I do to help" seems to work much better for a minor traffic stop than 'are you detaining me?' when the officer starts asking questions hoping you will consent to an information gathering "consensual encounter"

Others like 'I've given you my proof of insurance already, right?' (asked in a non-sarcastic way) is another way to ignore a probing question without coming off like an a-hole.


And it need not be a TOTAL information blackout. Last time I was pulled over for supposedly rolling through a stopsign (I didn't)

Officer asked me 'can you roll down your window' I pushed the button and the window twiched but didn't go down. I said 'Sorry, it's frozen, does that sometimes when it drizzles then gets colder'

Then I did my 'Do you know why I pulled you over?' No (even though my brain said 'yes, it is saturday night, 11 pm, you are seeing if you can smell beer on my breath, but I haven't been drinking) and 'So where are you going?' to which I replied 'Lets see, I gave you my insurance card already, right?'

and to "Why are you in such a hurry tonight?" with "What can I do to help officer?"
 
akodo your experience with being forthcoming is very different than mine. but then again you didn't mention how the encounters, real or imagined worked out.
 
"why do you think it is even worth bringing up?"

ummm possibly cause the op saw fit to include it in his post? for whatever reason. see my post about that stereotypical image again
 
Carrying two full sized G20's in rural Wyoming? Just seems overkill to take a walk. OK, perhaps he's breaking in a new rig, maybe he is seeing how it feels and if he can do all the normal things but with two Glocks. I don't know, seems odd. It makes sense in a battle zone, or TEOTWAWKI.
I can see two 638's, two 640's, two LCP's they all have small magazine capabilities where 5/6 may not be enough. I could even see a G20 and a 642 BUG.
Shoot me, I just find it different carrying two full sized Glocks under anything but combat situation.
Could it be PTSD? I would then undrstand as no doubt I probably suffer from it in some ways too.
 
in court they had better have something intelligent to say about why they demanded your ID- what was that reasonable suspicion.
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The police have a right if you are driving to demand your drivers license. In Colorado I am required to produce my permit on request.

Other than that they have no right to demand your ID ever.

It's been said and said and said,
You have nothing to gain by talking to a police officer. Nothing that you say can help you. Anything you say can be used against you.

Cops don't just stop to shoot the breeze W/ random strangers, if he's talking to you it's because he suspects that you are up to something and he's looking for information to help confirm his suspicions ( Kinda sucks that I'm talking about American cops and not STASI here). At this point the best thing you can do is ( where have I heard this before?)

Politely and firmly assert your rights.

Officer, I really don't have time to chat right now am I free to leave?

If he says yes DO IT!

If he says no that means he has something more that just a hunch to suspect that you have committed a crime. And he is under no obligation to share that information W/ you.

The WORST thing you can do at this point is start flapping your lips

Officer, am I free to go?

No your not

Officer I'm not comfortable making any statement or answering any questions W/ out my attorney present. Also I do not consent to any searches.

After that no matter what he says continue to reaffirm that you do not wish to speak W/ out your lawyer present.

Do not ever physically resist
Do not ever try to run
Do not ever tell him I'll have your job for this ( like you really want a po'd cop at this point)

Calmly , politely, firmly continue to assert your rights.
 
akodo your experience with being forthcoming is very different than mine. but then again you didn't mention how the encounters, real or imagined worked out.
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I am a bit confused. Are you saying I am giving TOO MUCH info, and that is why you say my experience with being forthcoming?

Or did you intend to say

"your experience with not being forthcoming"

Real event, no ticket, no warning, just a 'watch it, okay?' to which I replied 'Have a nice night officer'
 
Nothing that you say can help you

i have considerable real life experiences in multiple jurisdictions that would belie that theory. don't tell em anything they don't know but in those cases where a cop has some discretion , and they've got you cold i've had some remarkably positive results with the truth. your experience/morality may vary.
 
Most experienced cops have a pretty decent 6th sense. I don't do drugs, don't drink & drive, don't give candy to the neighborhood children, don't have a wife to beat, don't view kiddie porn, the list goes on what I don't do. Cop car goes by, I wave in appreciation, he's looking out for my property. The few times I have been stopped, no problems. I was stopped 9 years ago by a State Trooper for suspicion of DUI, I was just tired from working multiple shifts. He made me do all the usual stuff, told me I was extremely bloodshot and then he asked if I was armed. I waas reluctant but said yes theres a shotgun in the vehicle would he like to see it? "No" he says but wants to know why I have it with me, I says, "companionship" he laughs and lets me go. The younger guys scare me some, they're still out to prove themselves.
 
i have considerable real life experiences in multiple jurisdictions that would belie that theory.
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So how did these experiences (real or imagined) work out?


On a side note we are waaaaaaay off the beaten path here and I'm bettin' the first mod that sees this thread is gonna lock it
 
I have two reactions to this encounter:

1.) I've read all 4 pages of replies and I am still laughing about the fact that he couldn't get his gun out of his holster! I'm glad it wasn't me that was stopped because I probably would have been on the ground laughing! :neener:

2.) It is a sad commentary on how much of our liberty has been given up so that people can "feel" secure. I mean really, walking down the street is considered "suspicious"? In who's world? I take my dog for a 2.5 mile walk every night around 10:00pm and because of this I should be questioned by police? The really scary thing for me is that people think this is okay.

Lest someone thinks I am one of those "gun nuts" . . . well, maybe I am . . . but I thought we lived in a free country where I could be a "gun nut" if I wanted without being harassed. I am 44 years old and the worst thing I have done is to get two speeding tickets (I am also a very boring person), and both times were positive experiences with LEO's. I am not anti-LEO and when I have done something wrong, I have absolutely no problem with taking responsibility for my actions. Take the ticket with a smile and have a nice day officer and pay my fine!

But, . . . , walking down the street? Come on! Is the desire to "feel safe" really worth abrogating our freedom as American citizens? :banghead:
 
Some states only allow 1 firearm to be carried by a CCW holder. I'm in Riverton, down the road apiece. I'll have to reread my CCW statutes to see. I only carry one firearm in little ol' Riverton. But if its legal to carry 2, no need for others to hassle this guy AGAIN.

Yes, Thermop is a Barney Fife kinda town. I love it.
 
so before it gets locked....walking around with dual Glocks at night is asking for trouble.
 
Over the years I have learned to never, repeat never, argue with a police officer. If I have a different opinion of the law or the facts- save it for the judge. There can be too much ego and emotion at the scene. Not worth the risk of the situation escalating sensely. I have seen that happen to no good end.
 
so before it gets locked....walking around with dual Glocks at night is asking for trouble.
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No sweat, I'll carry my Glock 19 and my Glock 22 tomorrow night. Can't tonight, eating a venison burger, drinking soju and watching "House".

I predict no trouble at all. If there IS, I won't be buying that nickeled Rock Island .38 Super I was thinking about. I'll be buying a vintage Colt instead. And a Bentley to drive to the gunstore to pick it up.
 
WYOCARP only made one post, the first on this thread.

I hope he comes back to see how some folks are trashing his choice of weapons. Personally I think we should be suitably armed to our own personal specifications.

What is wrong with being well armed? This afternoon I went for a walk out here in the boonies, carrying my Remington 870 and my Browning Hi-Power. By the way, in a pocket, I had a J-frame revolver. I didn't feel over-gunned at all.
 
Since we get to keep going let me say this,

I think that the idea of protecting yourself from the cops is something you either get or you don't get. If you don't get it nothing I say is going to convince you.

So let me say this you are just one bad cop away from getting it. When you meet him you will understand me perfectly.

And to those who are askin what harm can one bad cop do, I met my one bad cop in 1991 had I cooperated with him I would still be in the U.S. Army Disiplinary Barraks at Ft. Leavenworth Kanas.

All it took was one bad cop
 
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