Harassed by police in Thermopolis, WY

[wyocarp]

Wow. I've just sat here with my wife, reading through a lot of responses. For the record, I carry two glock 20's for several reasons.

The first and foremost is, that carrying just one feels awkward to me. All of the weight is on just one side. It is more comfortable to carry two.

Second, I have had a scenario where I have emptied a pistol and was glad I had a second without the need to reload, realizing that reloading takes too much time when the chips are down.

Third, I went to Thermopolis to shoot various guns at a friend's ranch. When I had gotten back to my hotel room, I had just come back from shooting the entire day.

Fourth, it is a sleepy little town. But we have seen shooting after shooting in recent years in places where we would least expect them; ie. churches, schools, universities, and in malls.

Finally, I like the Glock 20, it shoots well for me, and I don't like the idea of bringing a knife or small pistol to a gunfight. If one is going to carry a weapon, let it be one that will get the job done.

POLICE CHIEF RESPONSE
I did speak to the police chief of Thermopolis today. He didn't find a record of the altercation in the log. I asked him about the fake permits and he confirmed that he had never seen a fake permit. He felt that the police officers did their jobs and that normally there would only be two officers on duty on a Saturday night but the original officer that stopped me had just returned from the academy and that he was added into the rotation which caused them to have three on duty when normally they only had two.

I'll respond more after dinner.

 

[MachIVshooter]

THR member Spwenger, a noted writer and firearms instructor has been carrying 2 Smith 640 .357 DAO revolvers for years.
And he lives in the small town of Show Low,AZ.
If someone with his experience and background considers carrying 2 firearms in his environment normal,I'm not going to think that Wyocarp's actions are unreasonable in Thermopolis,WY.........................
So ask Spwenger,the expert, why.
Others have already given reasonable answers.

I'm not asking Spwenger. I'm asking the OP. Like I said, it's his perogative. If he wants to walk about town with an M240 slung under his shoulder, that's his business. But in the event that you are involved in a defensive shooting, I imagine being so heavily armed may come back to haunt you. It wouldn't be too hard for a prosecutor to convince a grand jury that a man packing two combat handguns with at least 30 rounds (I would assume spare mags as well) is looking for trouble. Character judgement holds far too much weight in our legal system. The odds that enough members of that jury are fellow gun nuts or have a libertarian view of the 2A are not something I would count on to keep my butt out of jail.

 

[SuperNaut]

The odds than any of us will be involved in a shooting is vanishingly miniscule. Spending time worrying about what a jury might think if you are ever involved in such an unlikely event is really just a thought experiment, don't you think?

 

[MachIVshooter]

The odds than any of us will be involved in a shooting is vanishingly miniscule. Spending time worrying about what a jury might think if you are ever involved in such an unlikely event is really just a thought experiment, don't you think?

By that same logic, then, what is the point in being so heavily armed for such an incredibly unlikely event?

As you have pointed out that the chances of being involved in a defensive shooting is very small, I will take that point further in that the odds of having an armed encounter where a civilian might need two high capacity handguns is exponentially smaller.

As I've understood from many people well versed on the subject, the rule of three is pretty commonplace in defensive shootings. That is, 3 feet-3 shots-3 seconds. I don't ever recall hearing of or reading about a public defensive shooting by a civilian in which a second or third handgun would have changed the outcome. If one has exhausted a 15 round magazine and the threat is still present, that someone is in way over their head.

At this point I'm just playing the devil's advocate, as I do carry 24/7 everywhere and like being prepared for the worst. On that note, however, I've decided that for me personally it is not worth being laden with the weight of multiple firearms and spare magazines. Carrying one compact pistol is enough of a wardrobe and lifestyle adaptation.

 

[gnut]

how do you like being second guessed by the entire civilized world? I think you did alright. Just keep tickin.

 

[gnut]

I would have paid lots of money to have seen the reaction of button man.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Christmas quotas maybe?

 

[Sinixstar]

the original officer that stopped me had just returned from the academy and that he was added into the rotation which caused them to have three on duty when normally they only had two.

Pretty much explains it all right there.

 

[SuperNaut]

By that same logic, then, what is the point in being so heavily armed for such an incredibly unlikely event?

The OP already stated that it is a balance thing for him, so question asked and question answered. Plus, I imagine he likes carrying two guns; big deal.

Besides "heavily armed" is, I think, a completely subjective thing. On the one hand, the FBI study is a great argument for keeping mag capacity down to 3 rounds (oh wait, that isn't what we want, is it?). On the other, the Trolley Square shooting comes to mind of a recent situation where the good guy ran out of ammo. I'd sure hate to be that guy.

Think of the OP's second gun as a pistol-shaped magazine holder.

 

[wyocarp]

Several have commented on what a jury might think about a particular weapon or weapons in case of a shooting. If it is a good shoot, why worry about that? If it is a questionable shoot, then that might be a different story.

Some have commented on carrying in this small Wyoming town. Well, there are as many four legged possibilities as there are two legged ones and therefore reasonable to carry in my opinion.

Walking at night was mentioned. Night is the only time to see some of the wildlife in the area. While I was out, I saw two large owls (one within 10 feet, the other only 25 feet away), and numerous deer that I passed by within less than 10 feet.

 

[wyocarp]

Please don't get him started, he'll start posting pictures of his shoulder rigs for his double Desert Eagles or his double S&W 500s. Then he starts talking about how he only dates twins, drinks two beers at a time, and has a motorcycle with a sidecar that is another motorcycle.

Well Jorg, I do have a habit of buying guns in pairs and wearing them in pairs. So, just for you..

 

[Kind of Blued]

Nice rig. I'd really like a G20. And a 30, 19, 26, 29, 36, and 17L.

so before it gets locked....walking around with dual Glocks at night is asking for trouble.

Maybe you live outside of the United States, or don't understand Wyoming, which still has "American rights" as we know them... I didn't check your status, but doing something completely legal, which can't even be construed as suspicious because it isn't visible or even observable is certainly not "asking for trouble". Perhaps if we added an AR-15 and some camo pants to this situation you would have a point.

The way I see it, Gaston Glock went through all of the trouble to make sure these guns wouldn't go off if you drop them. The only way to get any use out of this feature is to carry another one if the first goes kaput.

 

[Boomer]

By that same logic, then, what is the point in being so heavily armed for such an incredibly unlikely event?

I am astonished to see this question on this forum. The Brady folks have a similar question: they ask what's the point in being armed at all.

I say, if it's safe and legal, carry what you like and as many as you like.

 

[SuperNaut]

To be fair, Mach did say he was playing devil's advocate in that post.

 

[Fisherman_48768]

Beatcop:

That's how criminals are caught and honest people offended on ocassion.

Please note that one pays your salary the other does not, remember that next time you stop one of the honest people, otherwise it's a good way to turn them against your next raise and promotion. Not only do we pay your salary, we vote, write letters and we are the community you want to remain in I would presume.

 

[wyocarp]

how do you like being second guessed by the entire civilized world?

gnut, you would expect me to appreciate some of the responses and dislike others.

Mostly, I felt that I offered no reason to be stopped. You would not believe how quiet and dead it was in that little town. I was walking where there wasn't anyone even around, at the edge of town and mostly by the river. I didn't stagger from a bar, drive through a stop light, go a little too fast down a street, or make inappropriate eye contact with someone. I was nearly the only person out other than the cops on what was an incredibly nice night. I can't even imagine how they would have treated someone with a not so nice past. All in the name of protecting and serving.

It is easy to see how things can spiral out of control when the police act as they do. I would expect for an officer to start out a conversation in that situation if he felt he had to stop me with, "Hi. How are you this evening?" It would have set a different tone. At the end, he thanked me for being cooperative, even though I didn't answer all of his questions, but that could have been too late. I've been handcuffed before for a officer's "safety" and I have decided that won't happen again. It frustrates me that everyone is treated like a criminal.

It would have been understandable if they might have had a robbery or some such event and so they were investigating everyone and they vocalized that. Well, I'm done for now, but I'm not done with this issue. I hardly got the time of day from the chief of police, but I'll talk with others in the coming days.

 

[cobra2411]

Dual 45's... The only way to "Face Off"...

 

[jackdanson]

Heh, if I could afford to dual carry.....

I'd probably still just carry an extra mag, my skinny butt doesn't like carrying all that weight, but whatever floats your boat.

Well Jorg, I do have a habit of buying guns in pairs and wearing them in pairs. So, just for you..

But what about the twins he spoke of?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

I've been handcuffed before for a officer's "safety" and I have decided that won't happen again.


let us know how that works out

theres that stereotype again

 

[Robert]

I really have to wonder how this rant on how cops are evil is in anyway constructive or positive for THR at large. Yeah I know its the General Forum, but really? We all know that from time to time we are going to get harassed by the police, its a fact of life seeing how we live in a police state, but does any of this add anything positive at all? Based on your side of things I fail to see where your rights were violated, but then having been a State Trooper I guess I am part of the problem.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

all a question of perspective and obsession. i got stopped and checked out one early am as i walked the 1/2 mile to where my ride picks me up. i was glad they checked out strange guys wandering around the neighborhood my wife and kid were still asleep in.wasn't a big deal seemed to me that was what i paid em to do. they handled it pretty well though the 40 # of fresh smoked salmon i was hauling on the cooler and the handtruck confused em a minute

 

[ArfinGreebly]

That'll Do Fer Now

I guess this one's run its course, guys.

I'm seeing posts by folks who don't want to read the whole thread but who still have an opinion.

It's been (mostly) civil, and pretty well balanced.

On the whole, nicely played.

Thank y'all for an interesting read.

Hat tip to the lads in blue who have helped add some good perspective to the thread.

Good stuff.