Hey Cops! Why M&P and not XD(m)'s?

[Darebear]

I have owned both a M&Pc (.40) and a XD 3 inch (9mm). I did NOT like my M&Pc, too small for me to get a good grip on it, it was my first .40 and I haven't owned a .40 since so maybe that had something to do with it. I should have got a full size. My XD was nothing special but I really liked shooting it.

But both pistols were awesome at just point and shooting. Out of the box I have never been more accurate with any other pistol (except my HK45c and I know 1911's can't be beat). But for striker fired they were awesome.

I was very happy to see our Law Enforcers carrying the new M&P's espicially in my neighborhood. I am very happy that America is now leading the pack in making awesome polymer pistols.

My question is why did the Springfield get left in the dust and Smith and Wesson took off like a rocket? Cops traded in their glocks for M&P's but it seems like Xdm's are the read headed stepchild of polymer pistols? I thought the XDm's would be a better choice because of the grip safeties, match grade barrels, cocking indicator etc. Either way kudos to America for leading the pistol pack.

 

[camsdaddy]

I would guess it has far less to do with the actual firearms and more to do with price negotiations and politics. Im pretty sure those carrying them have little say about what they carry

 

[vaupet]

Never shot one, but last month, Belgiums "federale politie" ordered the first batch (3000 of a total 8000) S&W M&P9's to replace their BHP's, wich caused quite a stir, as FN is sort of a government company.

Is was a public tender with 6 contastants and S&W is said to offer the best "total value", which doesn't mean it is the best gun.

Greetings

Peter

 

[Whiskey11]

Price pretty much. Glocks where cheap, accurate, and reliable. M&P's are cheaper, just as accurate, and pretty much just as reliable. XD's are about the same cost as a Glock and offer pretty similar features, accuracy, and reliability. So naturally, when you have three nearly equal performing firearms, it is going to come down to price and politics.

Truth of the matter is, our men and women in blue fall into the same pricing strategies as the military does. Cheapest that gets the job done correctly. And for those politics, well, Glock is Austrian, and XD is Croatian, but as far as I know, the M&P is 100% 'Merican. Sounds stupid, but I'm sure there are some departments which buy on that principle alone.

Personally, If the all of the triggers on the M&P's are as bad as the one store shelf model I handled, I would much rather pay for a second XD. Sadly, when I get hired on to the local PD, it's Glocks in .40S&W or .45ACP only and you buy it yourself. It pains me greatly to not have options. At least the G21 fits well in my hands

 

[IlikeSA]

Price and Smith and Wesson trade-ins. That brings the prices down considerably.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Never shot one, but last month, Belgiums "federale politie" ordered the first batch (3000 of a total 8000) S&W M&P9's to replace their BHP's, wich caused quite a stir, as FN is sort of a government company.

I hope some police trade-in BHP's make it over here! I've recently been interested in picking up a used BHP shooter since I've never owned one.

I owned an XDM in 40 and I just didn't like it. I'll stick with my glocks. I'll try the m&p next. I've shot one several times, but until I own one or run several hundred rounds through it a once, I'll withhold my judgment.

 

[CZF]

After owning many Glocks through the years and one M&P Compact.

My vote goes for the excellent M&P 9C over any Glock.


It looks like from what I've been reading. Glocks have run their course with American and other forces.The Gen 4s are a nightmare for some and
the American made Gs don't stand up to the Austrian ones.
(or so they say and from my own viewpoint)

I kind of wish the move was towards CZs, as the P-01 and newer
P-07 Dutys ( esp. the .40s) are very worthy, but CZUB doesn't
strive to dominate yet another LE market. They seem quite pleased
with the many agencies and forces they already have armed with CZs.

Back to Smith and Wessons..

The big swing is under-way and those Cops fortunate to get M&Ps
will be well armed.


Most Glock guys that dare to venture into M&P territory are finding
better ergos, and a better trigger in most cases.

Comparable price.. and they seem to be quite pleased.

I love my CZs, but if not a CZ,..then give me a M&P!

 

[rellascout]

The XD is marketed to the civilian commerical market. The Croatian made XD simply has not been marketed to the LEO market the right way IMHO. LEO purchasing like most govt purchasing is won by the lowest price thing that meets the spc. SA has not discounted them enough to get into the LEO market from what I understand.

Glock & S&W dominate because they take the older guns in trade and replace them with newer guns at a price that reflects the trade in. They then sell those trade ins or scrap them for materials. S&W is really doing a great job racing to the bottom with Glock to capture a piece of the LEO market. If you cannot do this or are unwilling to do this you will never break into the LEO market.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Glock & S&W dominate because they take the older guns in trade and replace them with newer guns at a price that reflects the trade in. They then sell those trade ins or scrap them for materials. S&W is really doing a great job racing to the bottom with Glock to capture a piece of the LEO market. If you cannot do this or are unwilling to do this you will never break into the LEO market.

And there you have it (or most of it)

The average Glock or M&P may be between $500 and $600 to us, but LEA's aren't paying nearly that much. I knew one gun shop here was selling new Glocks to police for $359 with no trade in.

Though I have no confirmation, I suspect the large move to the M&P may be officer inspired in part, as the generally better ergo's and interchangeable backstraps make for a gun that can be comfortable to almost any shooter. Glock's one size fits all mentality may have finally bit them in the rear after more than 20 years of market domination.

 

[18DAI]

Because bean counters - not shooters - determine what rides in LEO holsters more than 90% of the time.

Plus S&W gives that plastic gun away for free - in exchange for the current inventory of pistols and "advertising concessions".

I've not seen Springfield do that. TJ

 

[MrWesson]

I switched from glock to M&P and wont be going back anytime soon.

I on the other hand have not tried a XD but I hear they are great to shoot.

To sum it up I will probably not buy another Glock unless maybe a G34 long slide.

I would buy an XD but its far down the list of my "wants".

Please don't take this as Glock bashing because they have a great product but the M&P line is just slightly better.

 

[Manco]

I'm not a cop, but I don't think that it takes a cop to address your question.

My question is why did the Springfield get left in the dust and Smith and Wesson took off like a rocket? Cops traded in their glocks for M&P's but it seems like Xdm's are the read headed stepchild of polymer pistols?

Price, marketing (remember how the HS2000 didn't sell well until it was renamed XD?), and politics were probably the main reasons, as others have said. And while the XD(M) has some of the M&P's newer features (for polymer pistols, anyway), such as changeable backstraps (the M&P's also include different palm swells) and field stripping without having to pull the trigger, the M&P had them first, which may play a role at this stage in the game.

I thought the XDm's would be a better choice because of the grip safeties,

Perhaps the grip safety is not as appealing to law enforcement agencies as the M&P's manual safety option, which is available in all of the supported calibers.

match grade barrels,

I doubt this makes a noticeable difference (or does it?) without hand-fitting the individual barrel to the individual gun, which I'm sure is not done. In other words, it's mostly for marketing, and I doubt that it's as effective on LE agencies as it is on the civilian market. Besides, any of these guns are plenty accurate for police work.

cocking indicator etc.

I have no use for such a feature, and I don't imagine that cops would, either. When the gun comes out of its holster (and has its manual safety deactivated, if applicable), it had better be ready to fire immediately. If it isn't because I screwed up, then I'll rack the slide, but I'm not ever going to check the cocking indicator first. If there's something I'm missing, then please let me know, but I've never paid any attention whatsoever to whether my M&P is cocked, and it's never been an issue. The only use for it that I can imagine would be in competitions where the hammer/striker has to be uncocked at times, but we're talking about police work here.

I'm not trying to rag on the XD(M), by the way, I'm just trying to help figure out why the M&P may appeal more to law enforcement agencies based on features (some of which are actually quite unappealing to many civilians and individual police officers).

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot about the M&P's ambidextrous slide lock, which neither the XD(M) nor Glock Gen4 have.

 

[jmr40]

XD's are considered single action. Same with the CZ-75. Almost all police depts. do not allow single action pistols. The officers who are allowed to carry single actions are going to carry a 1911.

Glock and the S&W M&P are considered double action only. Neither the XD nor CZ has any chance of being more than an afterthought in law enforcement.

 

[StrikeFire83]

^ Uh, wrongo on the CZ-75B. Aside from a small number of 75-single actions made specifically for target work, the VAST MAJORITY of CZ-75B service pistols are DA/SA with the option of being carried cocked and locked.

 

[jmr40]

The fact that they CAN be carried cocked and locked completely locks them out of 99% of LE agencies. There is the CZ-75BD and other CZ's that could be used. But the 75 is considered SA. As is the XD.

Most departments specifically forbid single action pistols.

 

[Rittmeister]

I fired an XD 9mm full size pistol back-to-back with an M&P9c at a range session with some friends. Several magazines from each. In my hands, despite being lighter and with a shorter barrel, the M&P was more accurate and had less felt recoil.

Were I to purchase one, it'd be the M&P. Though I want a full-size .45

 

[metalman8600]

jmr40, the M&P is single action. And the Glock is 50% cocked.

 

[seed]

jmr40, the M&P is single action. And the Glock is 50% cocked.

I'm almost certain he knows that but is talking about official categorization, inaccurate or oversimplistic as it may be.

 

[REAPER4206969]

The Glock is 34% pre-set.

 

[REAPER4206969]

Glocks have run their course with American and other forces.

You M&P fan boys sure are delusional.

65%+ of U.S. LE issue the Glock, and Glock is reported to currently have a 170,000 pistol back order.

 

[GLOOB]

Glocks have run their course with American and other forces.

I hope so. I look forward to picking up some LEO trade-ins.

The M&P might be better in some ways, but I've never heard of a Glock cracking a slide or losing the dot off the front site. (Hickok 45's M&P did both).

Still, I'll probably be interested in trying one out when my Glocks stop working. Or when hell freezes over. Whichever one comes first.

 

[jmr40]

Because the striker is only 98% cocked prior to the trigger being pulled, Smith and Wesson classifies the M&P's action as "striker fired (double action only)". [5][6]

I'm not the one who maks up the rules, don't even say it makes sense. The trigger on a Glock FEELS like a crisp, but heavy single action pull while the XD FEELS more like a light double action pull. But the XD trigger is in fact single action. It does not matter how good the gun is, it will never be considered for law encforcement use by the vast majority of agencies.

It does not matter how the trigger feels, the Glock and M&P are classified as DAO. That makes them eligible for consideration.

The CZ-75 will never be considered either. I know it can be fired DA. But few agencies will allow an officer to carry a gun that could be carried cocked, with no decocker. The ones who do will almost always choose a 1911.

I'm not passing judgement on any of these guns in any way. But facts is facts. And there is a simple reason why the XD will never be used widely in LE.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I would think it would be a lot harder for an importer with a company doing all the manufacturing in another country to compete in any kind of flexible deal making a local government is going to want to do compared to a company that makes and sells something themselves.

Also no one gets fired for buying a Glock or for that matter a S&W. If they end up not working out its just one of those thing. Now imagine having to explain to voters or a city council and it did not work out why you bought some guns from Croatia. Your probable first question is going to be "Where is Croatia?"

 

[PabloJ]

I have owned both a M&Pc (.40) and a XD 3 inch (9mm). I did NOT like my M&Pc, too small for me to get a good grip on it, it was my first .40 and I haven't owned a .40 since so maybe that had something to do with it. I should have got a full size. My XD was nothing special but I really liked shooting it.

But both pistols were awesome at just point and shooting. Out of the box I have never been more accurate with any other pistol (except my HK45c and I know 1911's can't be beat). But for striker fired they were awesome.

I was very happy to see our Law Enforcers carrying the new M&P's espicially in my neighborhood. I am very happy that America is now leading the pack in making awesome polymer pistols.

My question is why did the Springfield get left in the dust and Smith and Wesson took off like a rocket? Cops traded in their glocks for M&P's but it seems like Xdm's are the read headed stepchild of polymer pistols? I thought the XDm's would be a better choice because of the grip safeties, match grade barrels, cocking indicator etc. Either way kudos to America for leading the pistol pack.

The M&P is made in USA. If everyone bought stuff like you we would have no manufacturing jobs left here. When I look at two items of equal quality and cost and one is made here I always buy item made by our people.

 

[Usmc-1]

you have to remember its not the patrol officers who make the decisions , the chiefs and executives , not unlike a regular business , the top tier who will never use it are the "experts" , dont you know that , when I was working the geniuses decided that the ruger p-85 was the way to go , obviously they never asked any of the rank an file , because that would have been on the very bottom of the list , what always cracked me up was when these executives when to range ,it was a sealed event ! Meaning the rank and file wasnt allowed , well the range master always let us know which of the brown nosers could shoot and who could not , what was truely amazing was how they too bashed the POS ruger p85 , but hey they got a great deal for them!

Doesnt matter whether its a better gun , more accurate, less complaints,less failures whatever , it boils down to which firearms company is "willing to go the extra mile" in our case Ruger was!
Dont get me wrong Ruger makes excellent firearms but the p85 isnt one them!