Hey Cops! Why M&P and not XD(m)'s?

[jmr40]

Brink's issue/use XD's.

Most of those guys purchase their own guns. They may have to purchase from an approved list, or in a specific caliber, but there is usually more leeway into what they can carry. The same is true in many smaller police depts. The only XD I ever say on a LE was in a VERY rural part of Colorado. Guy wasn't even wearing a uniform. Jeans, T-shirt, gun and a badge.

 

[Usmc-1]

Pretty sad stated of affairs when police agencies don't trust cops with their own weapons. Just goes to show how the progressive disease has infiltrated nearly every level of government. Looks like all the politicians and bureaucrats are just scared little girls with an irrational fear that people evil by nature and must be guided, educated, and molded to be good.

I've shot all three plenty and I prefer the M&P over all of them and find I'm more accurate with the XD than I am with the Glock. YMMV, but the M&P felt like it had better balance than the other two, more like a steel-framed pistol, yet it was very light. If I were a cop and had my choice I'd pick the M&P if I couldn't use a steel framed pistol, and I wouldn't choose a 1911.

Come to think of it, I know two cops who carry HK USP45 var 1's for their duty weapon. Those are SA/DA.

@Millertyme I hat to side with management , but the reason for several decisions regarding the weapons chosen is because every department has losers and these losers somehow slipped through the cracks to get hired (they lied , cheated , were "daddys kids" ,etc) ,these are the cops make it hard to do your job , they make it difficult to justify buying a certain weapon , back in the day , you'd be hard pressed to get a .45 approved , not because it wasnt a great duty carry weapon , but because the little girls couldnt duty carry it ," it was too heavy " , so you were relgated to carrying a 38 , you didnt want the poster girls the chiefs harem to go without did you? Now adays it isnt the women , they are very qualified , but the aforementioned are the problem not because of the weight but because these idiots seem to shoot there feets off alot if there isnt a safety .

 

[Manco]

The grit some have in a M&P is solely the striker safety as the link comes up on it. A very easy darn fix. Just a tad of polishing on the striker safety button. Or you can polish and change the profile a tad.

If you merely round the edges on the striker block, the trigger should be pretty smooth, that's true.

I live in PA and I remember when I first heard that State Troopers carried the .45 GAP. Well every PA state trooper I've talked to LOVE that caliber...

This is unrelated to your point, I realize, but the M&P45 offers the same ergonomic benefits over the G21 that the G37 does, as well as the same ammo capacity, but in .45 ACP. This kind of makes .45 GAP a bit superfluous, doesn't it? Just sayin'....

S&W lies like hell. I don't know how they get away with that.

At least one popular theory exists. There is a "hump" (actually more like a wedge from a changed angle) on the engagement portion of the sear that results in the trigger pull slightly camming the striker back before it is released. You could grind down this hump or wedge to slightly reduce the pull weight and make the trigger break more crisply with no compromise to safety or reliability (and this is often done for trigger jobs), so it is theorized that this is how S&W justifies calling it a DAO trigger system--it's a compromise made for the sake of marketing.

While I'm not pleased by this, to tell you the truth I think that calling the Glock trigger system DAO is also a lie, because even if the striker is only partly cocked, essentially the same technicality is used for marketing purposes. I mean, really, what's the practical difference?

 

[Col. Plink]

Armorer for Texas DPS once said he wished he could talk the dept. into issuing the XD (.40, I believe)

 

[NMGonzo]

^ Uh, wrongo on the CZ-75B. Aside from a small number of 75-single actions made specifically for target work, the VAST MAJORITY of CZ-75B service pistols are DA/SA with the option of being carried cocked and locked.

And the stock thumb safety is better than the plain jane GI safety on a 1911.

Dang!

 

[Ben86]

And the stock thumb safety is better than the plain jane GI safety on a 1911.

I concur. Oh no, there I go again hating on 1911s. I'm starting to think I have a complex. I'm sorry Mr. Browning.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Ive never fired the MP series but from the sounds of it , it sounds like it has the Sigma trigger ? Is that what you guys are saying?

No, it's a whole different kind of sucky trigger.

 

[MidwestRookie]

whoever decided to put a 1911 grip safety on a plastic gun should be punched in the right testicle...

i shot one mag worth of ammo through an xd45 and will never shoot one again. I hope to sweet little 8lb 7oz baby jesus that no LEO anywhere HAVE to use the xd series...just an awful gun to shoot.

caliber notwithstanding, the M&P40 I shot was a million times more enjoyable and better feeling to shoot..

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I'm aware that the XD's grip safety is an officer safety issue with many LEOs because it locks the slide in battery. These LEOs are concerned they may not be able to operate the grip safety to retract the slide one-handed after incurring an injury.

An XD slide cannot be retracted without fully depressing the grip safety - which can be problematic one-handed when the hand is wet and slippery with blood, mud, etc., the officer is weakened by injury, etc.

The absurd design feature that requires the grip safety to be fully depressed to retract the slide is the primary reason why the XD hasn't been widely accepted by law enforcement. Being able to rack the slide, one-handed, while in a wounded and weakened condition that may compromise the ability to grip the pistol is an important consideration for many LEOs. The grip safety on the XD can complicate the process and lead to failure/death if an officer cannot quickly clear a stoppage or reload the pistol with one hand after being wounded.

 

[rscalzo]

Plus S&W gives that plastic gun away for free - in exchange for the current inventory of pistols and "advertising concessions".

More internet lore. The purchases are made through local dealers and not from the factory. Nor do they "give them away for free". By that logic, they would be giving a trade-in of approximately $550 per used unit. That doesn't happen. When we buy suixty or seventy units, we get a better than street price. But free?? Yech, right.

 

[Whiskey11]

Shawn I have heard dozens of people make that claim but few realize that there are many methods out there to rack the slide on any pistol one handed. Many involve using the rear sight and hooking it on a table, belt loop, what have you. It can be done, know how to use your tools correctly and train for those situations and it is a minor issue at worst.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Shawn I have heard dozens of people make that claim but few realize that there are many methods out there to rack the slide on any pistol one handed. Many involve using the rear sight and hooking it on a table, belt loop, what have you. It can be done, know how to use your tools correctly and train for those situations and it is a minor issue at worst.

These are the methods I'm referring to.

Most LEOs wish to avoid seemingly "minor issues" during a gunfight - especially after incurring an injury that may physically weaken them and compromise their ability to grip the pistol.

A grip safety that locks the slide in battery is an unnecessary feature that adds no value to a defensive arm.

LEOs apparently believe the best way to avoid this "minor issue" is to avoid the XD pistol all together.

 

[jmr40]

I like 1911's, but a grip safety on any gun is as useful as a screen door on a submarine. I bought 1 XD and quickly sold it, partly because of the grip safety. I tolerate them on a 1911, but feel they would be a better gun without them. Putting that contraption on a gun and telling me it makes it safer is an insult to my intelligence.

 

[Whiskey11]

Shawn, I fail to see the issue, I have had zero issues cocking my xd one handed on my duty belt.

I also wouldn't call the slide locking a feature they intended, more like a consequence of the design. The firing pin actually pushes down on the sear when the firearm is cocked, the grip safety prevents the sear from moving, so the slide stops.

I see it as a non issue, then again, I doubt my xd will ever be put in that situation to begin with.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Shawn, I fail to see the issue, I have had zero issues cocking my xd one handed on my duty belt.

Are you injured when you do this? Are you doing this at your leisure? Is your hand slippery with blood? Is your hand injured? Are you physically weakened from blood loss? Are you kneeling behind cover? Is somebody trying to kill you when you're doing this? Etc?

Those are the issues.

It may be a non-issue for you, and I sincerely hope it never is. But is is an issue for many informed and survival minded LEOs - hence the title of this thread.

Cheers!

 

[ns66]

i don't know why m&p has 2 piece trigger if it does not have trigger safety like glock/xd?

i think grip safety is fine, remember trigger is 6 pound pull, if your hand is hurt can't hold on to the back of the grip, what do you expect to pull trigger against? same thing with slide, how do you plan to pull slide without solid grip on the gun? it's not like slide is as light as a switch, it's a long hard pull, if your hand is injured such that you can't even hold grip with such small force to depress grip safety, then forget about cycle slide or pull trigger, better option is to run

in fact i would think trigger safety is not as useful as grip since what's the chance of trigger got pulled only by the edge, but spare the center?

imagine you put m&p, glock, xd(m) all inside a tool bag with lots of items and bag get dragged/tossed around, what's the chance of misfire? m&p (without manual safety one) will go off first, anything hold on to trigger will fire, glock 2nd, anything hold on to the center of trigger will fire, xdm the 3rd, anything hold on to the center of trigger AND something pressed on grip safety AT THE SAME TIME will fire, the chance is much smaller than the other 2. conclusion, xd is safest.

and if you ever need to pull trigger, 99.99% you need to pull trigger against back of the grip (6 pound force remember), so grip safety will be naturally depressed, unless in some weird case the gun is glued/fixed solid somehow you can trigger without touch the grip, but in that case how can you aim?

 

[jmr40]

The problem with the XD grip safety is not preventing an AD. Only an idiot would let one of the above examples happen. The problem is that the grip safety could prevent the gun from firing when you NEED it to fire.

Handguns have been around for a couple hundred years now. Almost none have a grip safety and work just fine without them.

 

[Manco]

i don't know why m&p has 2 piece trigger if it does not have trigger safety like glock/xd?

The M&P's trigger functions as a drop safety, just like those of the Glock and XD. It's as though you took the safety lever of the other two and widened it so that it forms the lower portion of the trigger. While it does not have the side-benefit of providing some resistance to snags, that's not the real purpose of such safeties, and it provides a more consistent contact surface (doesn't really matter, but I prefer it).

in fact i would think trigger safety is not as useful as grip since what's the chance of trigger got pulled only by the edge, but spare the center?

That's exactly why those triggers should not be relied upon as a snag safety. Unfortunately, the latter is what most people believe they are. :banghead: In actuality, they help prevent the trigger system as a whole (including internal parts) from effectively being pulled due to its own inertia by a hard drop with the muzzle up. The M&P's trigger serves the same function.

 

[danez71]

The m&p, while a good gun just has a TERRIBLE trigger and I can't get over it

this is why i just don't get the people who say the m&p has a good trigger. i want to hit them over the head with a 1911

Funny things is.... when I hear these type of statements I think user defeciency and not machine defeciency.

And yes, I had a 1911 and still currently have a BHP.

For striker guns, I think they have one of the better triggers.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[ns66]

The problem with the XD grip safety is not preventing an AD. Only an idiot would let one of the above examples happen. The problem is that the grip safety could prevent the gun from firing when you NEED it to fire.

give one example how you can pull 6 pound trigger over .3" while not touching grip safety?
when you need to fire, you have to pull trigger+ hold grip no matter what kind of gun you are using

 

[Whiskey11]

Are you injured when you do this? Are you doing this at your leisure? Is your hand slippery with blood? Is your hand injured? Are you physically weakened from blood loss? Are you kneeling behind cover? Is somebody trying to kill you when you're doing this? Etc?

Those are the issues.

It may be a non-issue for you, and I sincerely hope it never is. But is is an issue for many informed and survival minded LEOs - hence the title of this thread.

Cheers!

I would like to ask you the very same question. Do you practice on a two way range when you practice for self defense? What you seem to be implying is that any practice is inferior to actually being there and doing it "the real way every time." By that logic, practicing drawing from a holster at the range is also a bad way to practice as you do not have the same stress as if you where actually in a situation that required it. If nothing else is gained by my "bad" practicing one handed reload techniques, at least it establishes SOME muscle memory, rather than none at all from not practicing it at all.

I'm also inclined to agree with ns66. I would like to know how any person holding a firearm would be able to pull the trigger without disengaging the grip safety. If your hand is THAT injured, you need to change hands, or if both are screwed up, then find a way out of the situation, you are more of a liability to others and yourself if you try to fight a gun battle without full control of a firearm.

You are entitled to your opinion, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I would gladly trust my XD in a firefight, grip safety or otherwise. That is the reason I bought it.

 

[MCMXI]

Are you injured when you do this? Are you doing this at your leisure? Is your hand slippery with blood? Is your hand injured? Are you physically weakened from blood loss? Are you kneeling behind cover? Is somebody trying to kill you when you're doing this? Etc?

Those are the issues.

It may be a non-issue for you, and I sincerely hope it never is. But is is an issue for many informed and survival minded LEOs - hence the title of this thread.

Dr. Gary K. Roberts expresses the same opinion here....

"XD's are a no go for serious use--the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD--this is a deal breaker for me."

... but frankly, I think you're both wrong. I recently shot an XDM (.45 ACP) and the grip safety doesn't present any problems whatsoever. If someone is weakened by blood loss, or their hand is slippery to the point that they can't rack the slide while taking a normal grip on an XD, then they'd have a problem with ANY pistol. The force required to rack the slide by catching the rear sight on a pocket, belt or holster is much greater than the force required to take a normal grip on the pistol. I put this whole anti XD argument in the bogus column and I don't even own an XD.

 

[GLOOB]

Why is it a big deal? It's a lever, a pin, and a spring. If you don't like it, then it's as simple as removing a lever, a pin, and a spring.

 

[blackhawk556]

I have to agree with this statement. People make it seem like the grip safety takes an enormous amount of pressure to engage but it doesn't.

I would like to ask you the very same question. Do you practice on a two way range when you practice for self defense? What you seem to be implying is that any practice is inferior to actually being there and doing it "the real way every time." By that logic, practicing drawing from a holster at the range is also a bad way to practice as you do not have the same stress as if you where actually in a that required it. If nothing else is gained by my "bad" practicing one handed reload techniques, at least it establishes SOME muscle memory, rather than none at all from not practicing it at all.

I'm also inclined to agree with ns66. I would like to know how any person holding a firearm would be able to pull the trigger without disengaging the grip safety. If your hand is THAT injured, you need to change hands, or if both are screwed up, then find a way out of the situation, you are more of a liability to others and yourself if you try to fight a gun battle without full control of a firearm.

You are entitled to your opinion, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I would gladly trust my XD in a firefight, grip safety or otherwise. That is the reason I bought it.

Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express

 

[2wheels]

Why is it a big deal? It's a lever, a pin, and a spring. If you don't like it, then it's as simple as removing a lever, a pin, and a spring.

Or slap some grip tape on it. I've seen a few 1911 guys do it.