Just last Sunday I used one of my P7M8s in a class put on by Louis Awerbuck. Reinforced my good feelings for the gun.
HK P7: Why all the hype?
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benderx4
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Just recently, Top Gun Supply, had Grade B P7s for sale for $499. You won't find a better deal on an extremely high quality handgun anywhere on the web. They had a couple hundred and sold out in two days. I'm told they should be getting more within the next couple weeks.
EVERYONE owes it to themselves to own one of these remarkable, compact, and scary accurate guns. They are a HOOT to shoot and are made for CCW. Thin, smooth, and SAFE! These guns change from totally safe to totally deadly in a split second with just the squeeze of the grip - no safety lever to slide, no safety button to push.
Truly a remarkable feat of German engineering!
EVERYONE owes it to themselves to own one of these remarkable, compact, and scary accurate guns. They are a HOOT to shoot and are made for CCW. Thin, smooth, and SAFE! These guns change from totally safe to totally deadly in a split second with just the squeeze of the grip - no safety lever to slide, no safety button to push.
Truly a remarkable feat of German engineering!
springwalk
Member
If ya can, get an original P7 and not the New Jersey designed P7M8
. I had a new M8 about 10 years ago and though I carried it for a year and liked it, it didnt quite live up to my expectations for $1300. M8s are slightly bigger and not quite as refined and accurate, to me. Also I despise the "warning" printed on them. I scored recently on a mint near new in box with all paperwork, manual & tools. A 30 year old P7 from 1980(Arlington, VA imported) that was only test fired and no wear of blueing. I paid just $700 and its twice the gun to me for the doubly expensive M8 American model. I think the original P7 PSP european heel release version is the true meaning of PERFECTION. Sorry Glock, not quite.
. I had a new M8 about 10 years ago and though I carried it for a year and liked it, it didnt quite live up to my expectations for $1300. M8s are slightly bigger and not quite as refined and accurate, to me. Also I despise the "warning" printed on them. I scored recently on a mint near new in box with all paperwork, manual & tools. A 30 year old P7 from 1980(Arlington, VA imported) that was only test fired and no wear of blueing. I paid just $700 and its twice the gun to me for the doubly expensive M8 American model. I think the original P7 PSP european heel release version is the true meaning of PERFECTION. Sorry Glock, not quite.Where'd you get those grips???Just recently, Top Gun Supply, had Grade B P7s for sale for $499. You won't find a better deal on an extremely high quality handgun anywhere on the web. They had a couple hundred and sold out in two days. I'm told they should be getting more within the next couple weeks.
EVERYONE owes it to themselves to own one of these remarkable, compact, and scary accurate guns. They are a HOOT to shoot and are made for CCW. Thin, smooth, and SAFE! These guns change from totally safe to totally deadly in a split second with just the squeeze of the grip - no safety lever to slide, no safety button to push.
Truly a remarkable feat of German engineering!
benderx4
Member
P7s can be some of the most accurate semi auto 9mm handguns available right now and they are somewhat affordable to the average Joe.
They do have some drawbacks.
They break firing pin assemblies and cocking lever parts.
Most will malfunction with certain ammo, i.e. all lead bullets, and jacketed bullets weighing less than 100 grains and more than 125 grains. They also tend to puke on Winchester Silvertips so the guns are ammunition tempermental.
Unless you have some gunsmithing experience, you won't be fixing a P7 by yourself while sitting at the kitchen table.
Magazines are VERY expensive.
Replacement sight assemblies are not terribly easy to find anymore.
Removing and replacing the grip panels requires some dexterity.
I have worked P7 grip panels oodles of tmes and they STILL occasionally stump me.
If you are clumsy or fumble fingered, you WILL eventually break a grip panel.
They really do require special tools to properly clean and take the gun apart.
Why the mystique?
I dunno.
I own one, it is an ok gun but not my favorite by a long shot.
The Sig Sauer P6/P225 is probably an all around better choice of handgun and cheaper too.
They do have some drawbacks.
They break firing pin assemblies and cocking lever parts.
Most will malfunction with certain ammo, i.e. all lead bullets, and jacketed bullets weighing less than 100 grains and more than 125 grains. They also tend to puke on Winchester Silvertips so the guns are ammunition tempermental.
Unless you have some gunsmithing experience, you won't be fixing a P7 by yourself while sitting at the kitchen table.
Magazines are VERY expensive.
Replacement sight assemblies are not terribly easy to find anymore.
Removing and replacing the grip panels requires some dexterity.
I have worked P7 grip panels oodles of tmes and they STILL occasionally stump me.
If you are clumsy or fumble fingered, you WILL eventually break a grip panel.
They really do require special tools to properly clean and take the gun apart.
Why the mystique?
I dunno.
I own one, it is an ok gun but not my favorite by a long shot.
The Sig Sauer P6/P225 is probably an all around better choice of handgun and cheaper too.
I did not like the P7, and sold mine. I won't go into the details again, I have posted them before, and one thing I have learned to do is not to say anything bad about the P7, mainly because P7 owners are so sensitive. P7 owners generally are irrational in their defense of this gun, and simply will not tolerate discussion about any of its possible drawbacks.
To me, the Glock 19 is a better gun. It has almost twice the ammo capacity in the same sized package, costs a few hundred bucks less, has cheap and ubiquitous mags, and a normal manunal of arms.
To me, the Glock 19 is a better gun. It has almost twice the ammo capacity in the same sized package, costs a few hundred bucks less, has cheap and ubiquitous mags, and a normal manunal of arms.
IMTHDUKE
Member
Yeah, but you only say that because it's true.
gc70
Member
Absolutely true; capacity is a very big issue if a shooter can't consistently put rounds on target.
harmon rabb
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That's the same type of stuff the 1911 guys say when it's pointed out that modern 45's hold 13+ rounds. Capacity? Who needs that crap!
Then again... I'm a better shot with my Dan Wesson 1911 than I am with my XD45
Capacity can be nice. But sometimes a single stack with less capacity is a reasonable trade off for those of us with shorter trigger reaches or for a more compact design that might conceal better.
here's some interesting things done to a P7M8...from the 80's
something more current
note the checkering and the beavertail
something more current
note the checkering and the beavertail
Yes it is, and it's a good gun. There are a lot of good guns out there. Which ones you might favor, or I might favor, or someone else might favor, depends on a variety of often personal factors and preferences.918v said:
For self defense, pretty much any decent quality gun in a caliber of consequence will do the job if it's reasonably accurate, completely reliable and you can manage it -- and if you train and practice sufficiently to be proficient with it.
Sometimes I think we get too wrapped up in hardware, when it's really a matter of software.
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You've obviously never shot a P7.
benderx4
Member
Funny, but you make the same sweeping generalization with your statement, that you accused the gentleman of concerning capacity.
Do my P7s get real hot at the range? Yes. Are they heavier than a similar sized plastic gun? Yes. Are the mags ungodly expensive? Yes. Is this gun limited to 8+1? Yes. Is the gun not as sexy looking as, say, a Walther PPK? Yes. Does this gun require special cleaning consideration in the piston chamber? Yes. If you can find one NIB, is this gun very expensive? Yes.
Is this gun still the finest handgun I've ever laid my hands on? Yes. Is this gun one of the most accurate and reliable guns I've ever shot? Yes. Is this gun the absolute most fun to shoot of any of my other sidearms? Yes.
See, we can take criticism and keep on smiling!
P.S. Stick with 115 gm or 124 gm non-lead bullets (what it was made for), and it will chew up anything you put in it. BTW, most polygonal rifled barrels are not fond of non-jacketed lead bullets.
1. Safe action for carry.
2. Low bore axis and longer barrel for frame size than with Browning locked breech designs.
3. Fixed barrel (extremely accurate).
The heat issue is resolved on the P7M8 with a heat shield. The mag release on a PSP makes it so that it's essentially impossible for a holster to depress the mag release. I love mine. Great gun.
The down side is that it's heavy and large in the grip, and that parts are not readily available (short of buying a spare gun) since they no longer make them. With modern technology it would probably be possible to make a much lighter P7. I love it for carry. There's no safer or more accurate carry gun out there, IMO.
2. Low bore axis and longer barrel for frame size than with Browning locked breech designs.
3. Fixed barrel (extremely accurate).
The heat issue is resolved on the P7M8 with a heat shield. The mag release on a PSP makes it so that it's essentially impossible for a holster to depress the mag release. I love mine. Great gun.
The down side is that it's heavy and large in the grip, and that parts are not readily available (short of buying a spare gun) since they no longer make them. With modern technology it would probably be possible to make a much lighter P7. I love it for carry. There's no safer or more accurate carry gun out there, IMO.
You guys may notice I made absolutely no mention about the guns getting too hot.
Quit trying to use one like a submachine pistol and I guarantee the gun isn't going to get too hot.
I have a Danish friend who summed the 'gets to hot' issue up quite nicely.
"If I get into a gunfight and it is going to require more than a couple of pistol magazines to solve it, I'm retreating back to the car for my rifle!"
Or as Jeff Cooper put it, 'A handgun is a portable weapon used to fight your way back to your rifle.'
Quit trying to use one like a submachine pistol and I guarantee the gun isn't going to get too hot.
I have a Danish friend who summed the 'gets to hot' issue up quite nicely.
"If I get into a gunfight and it is going to require more than a couple of pistol magazines to solve it, I'm retreating back to the car for my rifle!"
Or as Jeff Cooper put it, 'A handgun is a portable weapon used to fight your way back to your rifle.'
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gc70
Member
Balrog said:
Since every revolver and single-stack semi-automatic that exists shares your assumed "flaw" regarding ammunition capacity, you missed the point of my response to your gross generalization.
As to criticizing the P7, the generic complaint that it is a single-stack is pretty weak. Instead, try this (in the proverbial 50 words or less): the P7 looks strange, is heavy for its size, has limited ammunition capacity, is mechanically complex, becomes uncomfortably hot after sustained firing, has an unusual balance, has a unique manual of arms, has limited good holster options, is rather expensive, uses costly magazines, and is out of production.
gc70
Member
SKILCZ said:
The heel mag release is the only aspect of the P7's operation that bothers me. I have become quite proficient at mag changes with the PSP, but the technique does not work worth a darn on a G17 and is particularly embarrassing when muscle-memory takes over during a match.
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alienbogey
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