How not to open carry...

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JohnKSa

JohnKSa

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If you're going to open carry, seriously consider using a retention holster and learning some retention techniques that work in concert with the holster you choose.

Besides the fact that guns are expensive and nobody wants to lose one, there are other seriously negative factors involved. The two that come to mind first are the immediate danger that the newly armed criminal poses to you and the potential uses that the stolen gun will be put to by the criminal who takes it or those the criminal passes it to.
 


From everything I've heard so far this occurred in New York City. I can't imagine anyone deliberately open carrying a hand gun in NYC, not even an off duty cop.

I think her jacket rode up and she wasn't aware that her firearm was exposed.
 
Another lesson in this is, if you are concealed carrying but your clothing uncovers your gun, you are now open carrying. And you might have to deal with all of the negatives of open carry even though you did not intend to.
 
Hartkopf said:
Another lesson in this is, if you are concealed carrying but your clothing uncovers your gun, you are now open carrying. And you might have to deal with all of the negatives of open carry even though you did not intend to.
Click to expand...
Most states have open carry laws that would cover you in that situation. Back when CC was taking off, anti-gunners were trying to argue that even if you could see the gun "printing" underneath the shirt it was a firearms violation and you could be arrested. One of these aholes actually called the police on me when that happened once. I was eating at Red Lobster and carrying a Glock19x which must have not been 100% concealed at one point and the next thing I know, the staff is not waiting on me, a couple across from me got up and walked out with a table full of untouched seafood in front of them and a uniformed officer came in and positioned himself at the bar right across from me and drank a complimentary glass of water while my wife and I ate our meal which took like 30 minutes to get served to us. It was all very bizarre. We ate our meal and left and he followed us out the door. I acted like I forgot something inside the restaurant and went back in for a moment and the cop did a 180 and followed me right back inside and then right back outside again. I hadn't broken any laws and he never said a word to me but it was a lesson learned for sure.
 
Everyone who carries needs to get some weapons retention training even if you are carrying concealed. In my opinion if you are going to open carry a retention device on your holster is mandatory. You might even look at a security holster like some police departments require, but if you go that route you need to practice until you are unconsciously competent drawing your weapon.
 
When I first started in uniform, the retention holster, a safety seam, was pretty bad. It was a sewn in piece of leather in the holster that was supposed to catch the back of the revolver cylinder and prevent removal unless a finger was inserted to push it away. Once somewhat worn after years of carry, they were ineffective.

My scary place was elevators, I'd go in with my hand on my gun, and move to where my back was against the rear wall.

Later, retention training was part of our re-qual cycle.

I would never consider open carry now unless in a woods situation.
 
I always wear a level II when I open carry. I get mine from Dara Holsters and Viper Arms. If you put them in a Teklock they are quite concealable. I've gotten a half dozen from Viper and a couple from Dara. This is one being made now by Viper:

upload_2022-2-28_16-36-46.jpeg


https://www.etsy.com/shop/ViperArmsTactical?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=1135986416

https://www.daraholsters.com/level-ii-retention-holster/

If I open carry I still try to throw a loose shirt over it. So maybe not too open then.
 
I don't Open Carry. I occasionally use this Safariland GLS for concealed carry. It's surprisingly concealable and has (IMO) good retention.

 
Jeff White said:
Everyone who carries needs to get some weapons retention training even if you are carrying concealed. In my opinion if you are going to open carry a retention device on your holster is mandatory. You might even look at a security holster like some police departments require, but if you go that route you need to practice until you are unconsciously competent drawing your weapon.
Click to expand...

Jeff is quite correct that you need such a holster. You need training on retention. However, many of the OC types seem to think that an attack for their gun will start with a wrestling match. They think the match will start with someone saying: I will take your gun. Then the bill will ring and you can start the match.

We saw the video as a surprise attack, but who is not to say that the attack will not start with a blade attack. When you have about 5 rapid stabs and slashes, your H2H might go to hell. I am too old for this but in class, in FOF, someone could just walk by you and zap, out comes the blade.

I have yet to see an OC person who was formidable or sensible in carry style. I told someone I could easily take their gun. They said - HOW, I would defend my gun with - Kung-Fu, Tae Kwon Do, BJJ. I have superior situational awareness and am in Condition Pastel Orange all the time!

I said: I will shoot you in the back.

Oh, bad guys don't have guns? Oops.
 
What's the time for a draw with a retention holster vs. from a common concealed rig, such as a OWB, IWB, AIWB. Especially for someone who doesn't do the hundreds to thousands of reps. Watch someone with a Serpa who doesn't know how to use it. Slow and dangerous.
 
I don't know what the cop in the vid was doing but OC in public areas is dumb. I'm for it, because I'm for freedom, but its still dumb.

In the woods its super practical. IE, it has its place.

But its supremely tactically dumb in any kind of even semi-urban scenario.

Thats true for LEO and military too, but in their case the ability to easily access and quickly draw their sidearm outweigh the negatives.
 
GEM said:
What's the time for a draw with a retention holster vs. from a common concealed rig, such as a OWB, IWB, AIWB.
Click to expand...

I think we need to differentiate between a holster with a retention device, i.e. a thumb break, and a security holster. I have a Bianchi Level III security holster in my box o' holsters that I used on duty for awhile. It had 3 retention devices, a standard thumb break, a second snap at the top of the holster that you had to hit with your little finger and a locking device in the front of the holster that required you to rock the weapon towards the rear to release it this made it impossible to pull the pistol from the holster at any angle but back and straight up. I was unwilling to put the time in to teach myself to hit the second snap with my little finger as it really messed with my draw stroke and I just used the standard thumb break and the clip in the front of the holster. Once I learned to rock the pistol back enough to disengage the locking device I was just as fast as with a standard holster.

If you are going to use a standard retention device like a thumb break you need to practice, practice practice until you disengage the thumb break as part of your draw stroke without thinking about it.
 
Jeff White said:
It's hard for someone to open a thumb break without the person noticing someone is trying to take his weapon.
Click to expand...
In case you didn't notice, they NOTICED the guy grabbing their gun to, even these distracted dimwits noticed. With out thumb snaps. They were just slow to re act. Kinda like people getting sucker punched or hit from behind with a club. Nothing short of wearing a helmet 24/7 would help them and a thumb snap would not have helped these people keep their gun. That is a pipe dream people use to convince themselves "It could never happen TO ME!"

I knew a guy 40 years ago who had a stripper lean in the window of his car to "kiss" and he never even notice his brand new 380 was missing from his should holster until he was driving home. LOL, he was a 24/360 awareness guy to.
 
I had one gun snatch attempt when I was working. I was on detail at a high school football game and was walking through the crowd with my right arm covering the butt of my weapon. I felt someone push between my arm and body and a tug on my pistol, I grabbed his wrist and spun towards him and took him to the ground…..it was another officer’s son who thought it would be a funny prank. His father and I were good friends, our families did things together and I guess that’s why he thought it would be funny.

When the game was over I told his father what happened when his father came to work at midnight. His father’s reaction was; “you should have broken his arm, I would have”

There are little things you can do like turn so your weapon side is away from whoever you are talking to, keep your arm or elbow over your weapon when you are in a crowd. Those habits are easy to adapt and I unconsciously do them now while carrying concealed.
 
I have seen ppl that carry open just in a loosey-goosey leather holster. I get that they want to play Dog the bounty hunter but yeesh.
 
Both instances may or may not have been avoided with a secure holster. Fact is, in both instances the people were targeted BECAUSE they were open carrying. I personally don't see open carrying as a deterrent as those who advocate for it try to say. It makes you the primary target (especially if you carry as stupidly as those represented in the videos). If I were the criminal and I walked into a place and someone was open carrying, they would get taken out first before they even knew the situation they are in. As others have pointed out, your reaction IS ALWAYS slower than the perps initial action. You're not Chuck Norris neither am I, that's why I conceal
 
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