Huge news in IL (CCW, removal of Chicago AWB)

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The way this is written:

Section 65. Prohibited areas.
(a) A licensee under this Act shall not knowingly carry a firearm into:
(8) Any bus, train, or form of transportation paid for in whole or in part with public funds, and any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a public transportation facility paid for in whole or in part with public funds.

Section 70. Violations.
(e) A licensee in violation of this Section or Section 65 of this Act shall be guilty of a Class B misdemeanor. A second or subsequent violation is a Class A misdemeanor. The Department may suspend a license for up to 6 months for a second violation and shall permanently revoke a license for 3 or more violations of Section 65 of this Act. Any person convicted of a violation under this Section shall pay a $150 fee to be deposited into the Mental Health Reporting Fund, plus any applicable court costs or fees.

"UNLOADED AND IN A CASE" IS PART OF UUW CODE 24-1. IT IS NOT PART OF THE CONCEALED CARRY BILL. BUT - THE CONCEALED CARRY BILL PROVISIONS *OVERRIDE* THE PENALTIES IN UUW, SPECIFICALLY THE ONES WHICH FOLLOW AS IDENIFIED IN THIS PARAGRAPH:

(f) A licensee convicted or found guilty of a violation of this Act who has a valid license and is otherwise eligible to carry a concealed firearm shall only be subject to the penalties under this Section and shall not be subject to the penalties under Section 21-6, paragraph (4), (8), or (10) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1, or subparagraph (A-5) or (B-5) of paragraph (3) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1.6 of the Criminal Code of 2012. Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, nothing in this subsection prohibits the licensee from being subjected to penalties for violations other than those specified in this Act.

THE PROVISIONS WHICH YOU ARE NO LONGER SUBJECT TO *INCLUDES* THE LANGUAGE WHICH HAS THE BROKEN DOWN IN A NON FUNCTIONAL STATE / ETC. SO THOSE ARE EXEMPT FROM VIOLATIONS IN THE CONCEALED CARRY BILL.

THUS: PROVISIONS FOR PROHIBITING CARRY FOR LICENSED CONCEALED CARRY PERMITS ARE *INCREASED* OVER PEOPLE WHO JUST HAVE AN FOID.


(720 ILCS 5/24-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-1)
Sec. 24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed

on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,

firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; or
 
Other notes.

(formatting will be screwy, pasted from word...)

Other technical notes:

* FIX The definition of "Carry" (right now the way it TECHNICALLY reads, you can't CARRY a firearm - unloaded or otherwise - on public transportation, or in to any prohibited place. if you read the explicit English of the bill..


" Section 65. Prohibited areas. 12 (a) A licensee under this Act shall not knowingly carry a firearm into:"

It doesn't say carrying a CONCEALED firearm. Just carrying a firearm, PERIOD. If you unload a firearm, you SHOULD be able to carry it in to a prohibited place such as, well, you know, a TRAIN, or a BUS. This will supersede UUW! It adds a misdemeanor offense for carrying a firearm on public transportation, even if it's unloaded!


* The public housing problem

(Public Housing IS NOT EXEMPT. Units of local government; Pekin Public Housing Authority, Peoria Public Housing Authority, etc, OWN AND OPERATE the buildings of their tenants, which means people living in public housing are EXCLUDED. This is a serious constitutionality issue, particularly on a bill without severability!)

* How you are supposed to take a firearm out of a holster and store it on a motorcycle (or other vehicle) without "brandishing" it, and so on. (Currently you commit a crime if the firearm isn't "fully or partially concealed")

(Every part of the bill for “safe harbor” references “WITHIN” a vehicle. You aren’t “WITHIN” a vehicle if you’re riding a motorcycle…)


* Put teeth in objections by CLEO and denials. Currently there's no damages awarded if they "just mess with you". There should be. Because YOU KNOW that Chicago CLEO is going to object to as many applicants as he possibly can.


* Reduced fees for people who meet a certain income thresh hold.

(Otherwise the state will face a lawsuit on poll taxes…)

* Reduced fees / training requirements for veterans

(Anything “for the veterans” should be easy to swallow)

* Some assurance by the Illinois State Police that they aren't going to create expensive, time consuming bottlenecks by overly restricting certified trainers, or training opportunities.


* Some oversight in to the Panel reviews. E.g. Public quarterly dissertation of How many people denied, from what counties, and for what causes. Also the racial breakdown of denials.

* Reduction of first offense of a "carry prohibited" from a misdemeanor to a petty offense. You shouldn't have to serve jail time if you make an honest mistake (once). (I'd argue that it should ONLY and EVER be a petty offense. Period. But that's probably asking too much).

(Think about that one. You mess up once, get a B class Misdemeanor, sentenced to 30 days in jail. Now you've lost your job.)

* DEFINE the process by which reciprocity will be granted to other states. Right now, there IS none. Which means it will take a legislative ACTION to approve any reciprocity agreements.


* Change this:

(a) Any law enforcement agency may submit an objection to a license applicant based upon CREDIBLE EVIDENCE (struck:reasonable suspicion) that the applicant is a danger to himself or herself or others, or a threat to public safety.

* Change this:

The "arrested X times" crap. Each traffic citation is an "arrest." And just because you are ARRESTED does not mean you have been FOUND GUILTY of a crime. This violates due process.

(You’re setting it up for a constitutional battle with that language)

Fix this

(3) the Board notifies the applicant and the Department 8 that the Board needs an additional 30 days to issue a decision.

The way that is phrased, the board could continually issue "We need another 30 days" to delay processing INDEFINITELY. There is no UPPER LIMIT OR CAP imposed on the amount of times the board can request a 30 day extension!


* Fix this; the state has no business prying in to sealed juvenile court records:

(2) all available state and local criminal history record information files, including records of juvenile adjudications;

(You’re setting it up for a NASTY lawsuit the first time the state police unseal juvenile records)

* extend non-residents to be "within X feet of their vehicle", that way people don't have to disarm to pump gas, use a gas station / rest stop bathroom, etc.

Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from transporting a concealed firearm within or in proximity to (new wording) his or her vehicle in Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident:


*** REMOVE THE DAMN INDEMNITY.

Right now if the government denies you ABUSIVELY, you cannot SUE THEM.

Section 45. Civil immunity; Board, employees, and agents. The Board, Department, local law enforcement agency, or employees and agents of the Board, Department, or local law enforcement agency participating in the licensing process under this Act shall not be held liable for damages in any civil action arising from alleged wrongful or improper granting, denying, renewing, revoking, suspending, or failing to grant, deny, renew, revoke, or suspend a license under this Act, except for willful or wanton misconduct.

There’s no civil recourse for abuse!



· Remove the ignorant "Notarized" language here. Proof of move doesn't require NOTARIZATION on ANY official change of address. That's just another needless hassle and expense to track down a Notary Public.

(1) a notarized statement that the licensee has changed 24 his or her residence or his or her name, including the prior and current address or name and the date the applicant moved or changed his or her name; and
And remove it here:
(1) a notarized statement that the licensee no longer possesses the license, and that it was lost, destroyed, or stolen;


** This needs to be changed to "WITHIN OR ON" a vehicle, to allow motorcyclists to carry firearms:
26 (B) Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, any licensee prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm into the parking area of a prohibited location specified in subsection 3 (a) of this Section shall be permitted to carry a concealed firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle into the parking area and may store a firearm or ammunition concealed in a case within a locked vehicle or locked container within the vehicle in the parking area.

Also, need clarification if a locked TOOLBOX in the bed of a PICKUP TRUCK counts as an acceptable container. Right now it specifically says TRUNK. Trucks don’t have TRUNKS.


A licensee may carry a concealed 8 firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle 9 within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited 10 purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's 11 trunk, provided the licensee ensures the concealed firearm is 12 unloaded prior to exiting the vehicle. For purposes of this 13 subsection, "case" includes a glove compartment or console that 14 completely encloses the concealed firearm or ammunition, the 15 trunk of the vehicle, or a firearm carrying box, shipping box, 16
or other container.

** There is ALSO no legal way for me to DRAW, UNLOAD, AND STORE a firearm on a motorcycle, as it would no longer be fully or partially concealed.


Isn't the language on Intoxication STRICTER for those with Commercial Drivers Licenses? (E.g. .04 instead of .08?) If so, does that mean a commercial truck driver can't carry a firearm after he's had one beer, while other people can drink 2?
(d) A licensee shall not carry a concealed firearm while 7 under the influence of alcohol, other drug or drugs, 8 intoxicating compound or combination of compounds, or any 9 combination thereof, under the standards set forth in 10
subsection (a) of Section 11-501 of the Illinois Vehicle Code.


This portion is what puts teeth in to the "carrying" of unloaded weapons on public transportation. By the way this is written, this act DOES supersede the unlawful use of weapons code.

(f) A licensee convicted or found guilty of a violation of this Act who has a valid license and is otherwise eligible to carry a concealed firearm shall only be subject to the penalties under this Section and shall not be subject to the penalties under Section 21-6, paragraph (4), (8), or (10) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1, or subparagraph (A-5) or (B-5) 26 of paragraph (3) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1.6 of the Criminal Code of 2012. Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, nothing in this subsection prohibits the licensee from being subjected to penalties for violations other than those specified in this Act.


There is NO DEFINITION on how the training courses will be approved here. Or how to apply to become a registered (certified) instructor.
(a) Within 45 days of the effective date of this Act, the Department shall begin approval of firearm training courses and makes a list of approved courses available of the Department's website.

(I also don't see an emergency rule making provision which allows ISP to create a structure for this, but I might have missed it)

There is no "teeth" in this. What's the penalty for failure to keep records?
(f) An instructor shall maintain a record of each student's 16 performance for at least 5 years, and shall make all records 17 available upon demand of authorized personnel of the 18 Department.
(This is odd. I'm reading this as "if you are a certified instructor (of an organization approved by the ISP in #4 of allowed trainers" you don't have to abide by the requirements in this section.)



The placement of the "AND" is worrysome. It should have been a list separated by semicolons. Because it appears you must comply with ALL of those to be allowed to skip the requirements of the section.
(h) A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an active law enforcement officer, a person certified as a firearms instructor by this Act or the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board, and a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this Section.
This is overly vague and can be subjected to ISP abuse.
(C) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor shall: (1) be at least 21 years of age; (2) be a legal resident of the United States; and (3) meet the requirements of Section 25 of this Act, and any additional uniformly applied requirements 25 established by the Department.

This is a problem. The way it's phrased you either have to have (A) *OR* (B) AND (C) AND (D).

(d) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor trainer, in addition to the requirements of subsection (C) of this Section, shall:

possess a high school diploma or GED certificate; and (2) have at least one of the following valid firearms instructor certifications: (A) certification from a law enforcement agency; or (B) certification from a firearm instructor course offered by a State or federal governmental agency; (C) certification from a firearm instructor qualification course offered by the Illinois Law 14 Enforcement Training Standards Board; and (D) certification from an entity approved by the Department that offers firearm instructor education and training in the use and safety of firearms.

(it should be A *OR* B *OR* C *OR* D, correct???)


This also means that any NRA certified instructors must WAIT until their instructors (training counselors) are approved by the above process, if NRA certified instructors are to become firearms instructors??

With the mandatory revocation requirements, and other processes we must go through (training, etc), this portion should be extended to WAIVE waiting periods once your instant NICS check (or FTIP) is completed.


Section 85. Background Checks for Dealer Sales. A license to carry a concealed firearm issued by this State shall not exempt the licensee from the requirements of a background check, including a check of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, upon purchase or transfer of a firearm.


Applicant should be reimbursed all legal expenses if they fight and win a bogus denial here:
(B)All final administrative decisions of the Department or the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board under this Act shall be subject to judicial review under the provisions of the Administrative Review Law. The term "administrative decision"
is defined as in Section 3-101 of the Code of Civil Procedure.

Does not give ISP "emergency" rule making powers. It NEEDS to if they will implement this in any reasonable amount of time.
Section 95. Rulemaking. The Department shall adopt rules to implement the provisions of this Act.
And that's just the carry portion.
 
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Yeah it looked better in word, with underlining and red fonts and bold text... but whatever. My remarks are there.

This was all sent to Rep Phelps tonight, if we are going to get stuck with this bill at least let's make sure it's dressed up and workable...
 
Several of the above items I identified were changed in the new version of the bill. House amendment 2 has been filed. Seems the powers that be were reading e-mails today. Biggest changes were to mental health items, since I'm not a doc and don't understand them, I haven't made any comments or suggestions on those aspects.
 
Trent - help my failing memory - wasn't there a lawsuit a few years ago about residents of "public housing" where they were being denied the right to even own defensive weapons?

Wasn't HUD forced to allow ownership and possesion of firearms because of that suit?

Would not the restrictions in this bill essentially reverse that decision?
 
JT is right, I believe the precedent has already been set, years ago, about denying 2A rights to residents of public housing - New York, wasn't it?
 
Trent - help my failing memory - wasn't there a lawsuit a few years ago about residents of "public housing" where they were being denied the right to even own defensive weapons?

Wasn't HUD forced to allow ownership and possesion of firearms because of that suit?

Would not the restrictions in this bill essentially reverse that decision?

Yes, second amendment foundation fought and won a case in IL over that.
 
I didn't read through this entire thread so maybe this is inapplicable but another thing bad about this bill in regards to the gun free zones is the inclusion of the parking lots. That will be a major hindrance. That is a clear slap in the face. Among many.
 
Pezo,

Yes, parking lots are annoying, but in all but two (nuclear facilities and.. umm.. there's one more I am forgetting), you get 'safe harbor' in a vehicle for loaded firearms.

Lets you disarm before entering the gun free zone to become a victim.
 
Meh...it's enough restrictions that there probably won't be that many folks getting one...but by having CCW "technically" legal, the next time a gun issue arises, the gun grabbers can use Chicago for their argument. "Look at Chicago...it has concealed carry implemented and it has horrible gun crime! Ban all guns"!
 
There are two Illinois threads goinhg at the top of this forum and the following is a repost from the other one. Regardless of what measure eventually becomes law, the sun will likely come up tomorrow and we will do well to be guided by the prayer of St. Francis (although I doubt firearms were on his mind at the time) concerning accepting things, changing things, and knowing the difference between what can and cannot be done at any given time.

Until a new Illinois firearms bill actually becomes law and the ink is fully dried, everything is basically speculation and conjecture. Having said that, with the federal court mandated deadline looming, something must happen.

The Madigan-backed proposal that seems must likely to become reality at this point appears to be an interesting example of American government in action. Some of the provisions remain quite onerous, especially those that will work to restrict the rights of the poor (many of whom live in areas where they are most in need of personal protection) to keep and bear arms. Other provisions (to me, at least) are almost shockingly slanted towards liberty and freedom, given the state's current situation. For example, a preemption of restrictive local laws by Illinois state statutes would clearly be a step towards an implementation of the Constitution's 2nd Amendment right for firearm owners in Chicago.

Representative government can certainly be messy, but there are times when the will of the governed is served, at least in part. The history of this nation is full of ugly compromises that restrict the rights of 'the people' and favor the rich and powerful. We are still, in effect, a work in progress.
 
Local news reported

2 or more dui
5 or more arrest

Local police can also stop you if they feel your dangerous

Can anyone confirm this?

Correct on all counts, although there is a "Governor Appointed Review Board" that hears appeals of denials.

A lot of us are convinced this makes it a "may issue" bill and violates due process since you don't have to be convicted of anything to lose your right to carry. (Also, traffic stops count as arrests; I have two in the last 5 years.)

But sentiment like that is precisely why I got banned on the IL Carry board. Disagree with the NRA lobbyist, fall out of lockstep, and WHAM.

Those guys forget that it wasn't the NRA or the IllinoisCarry folks or iGOLD that got us here - it may have helped, for sure.

What got us here is lawsuits launched by SAF.

And man, there's going to be a lot of lawsuits if this bill passes. There are some nasty surprises lurking in it.
 
Correct on all counts, although there is a "Governor Appointed Review Board" that hears appeals of denials.

A lot of us are convinced this makes it a "may issue" bill and violates due process since you don't have to be convicted of anything to lose your right to carry. (Also, traffic stops count as arrests; I have two in the last 5 years.)

But sentiment like that is precisely why I got banned on the IL Carry board. Disagree with the NRA lobbyist, fall out of lockstep, and WHAM.

Those guys forget that it wasn't the NRA or the IllinoisCarry folks or iGOLD that got us here - it may have helped, for sure.

What got us here is lawsuits launched by SAF.

And man, there's going to be a lot of lawsuits if this bill passes. There are some nasty surprises lurking in it.





Some were young people were young and dumb. Then they grew up

I know one person that got a dui at 20 then one 19 years later
Yes a traffic ticket is an arrest.

This wont effect me at all, but it seem a lot wont make the cut.

But this is ......................

Local police can also stop you if they feel your dangerous



LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR
 
it looks more and more like illinois will be a "may issue" with hardly any places you can carry.......

i say buck the system and get constituional carry June 9th. once that occurs the descent folks will have more leverage to get a descent ccw permit system if the antis still want to fight for one.

right now illinois is fighting for chicken feed because they have nothing, but June 9th they will have everything unless they will it away before then.
 
There are two Illinois threads goinhg at the top of this forum and the following is a repost from the other one. Regardless of what measure eventually becomes law, the sun will likely come up tomorrow and we will do well to be guided by the prayer of St. Francis (although I doubt firearms were on his mind at the time) concerning accepting things, changing things, and knowing the difference between what can and cannot be done at any given time.

Until a new Illinois firearms bill actually becomes law and the ink is fully dried, everything is basically speculation and conjecture. Having said that, with the federal court mandated deadline looming, something must happen.

The Madigan-backed proposal that seems must likely to become reality at this point appears to be an interesting example of American government in action. Some of the provisions remain quite onerous, especially those that will work to restrict the rights of the poor (many of whom live in areas where they are most in need of personal protection) to keep and bear arms. Other provisions (to me, at least) are almost shockingly slanted towards liberty and freedom, given the state's current situation. For example, a preemption of restrictive local laws by Illinois state statutes would clearly be a step towards an implementation of the Constitution's 2nd Amendment right for firearm owners in Chicago.

Representative government can certainly be messy, but there are times when the will of the governed is served, at least in part. The history of this nation is full of ugly compromises that restrict the rights of 'the people' and favor the rich and powerful. We are still, in effect, a work in progress.

IL Bill;

I agree with you in sentiment.

I'm incredibly happy about the end of Chicago's iron curtain assault weapons ban (ammunition was also pre-empted in HA2 last night).

But given the 7th district's decision we SHOULD have come out a heck of a lot better here!

EVERY one of the prohibited places proposed by anti-gunners is in this bill. INCLUDING ones which were OVERWHELMINGLY voted down when madigan tried to pass his "legislation by piece meal amendment" crap earlier this year.

Many of the points we really need are omitted; public housing, public transportation, etc.

Fact is, I won't be able to carry a firearm in to ANY public place. Can't carry when I take my dog for a walk in the woods at McNaughten park. Can't carry when I take my kids to the playground, zoo, library, etc. Can't carry when I got to my lawyer's office because his parking lot is shared with Gov't owned buildings. Can't carry when I go fishing at the local stocked pond. Can't carry when I go shoot pool, even though I don't drink. Can't carry when I go to a cruise in or car show because it's a banned, gov't permitted event. Can't carry when I go watch the 4th of July fireworks. Can't carry when I go to a theater because it'll certainly be posted. Can't carry when I go to the bank to make a deposit because the parking lot is shared with the post office.

So basically, I can carry when I drive around. I can ALREADY carry a firearm in the center console with a loaded magazine sitting next to it. By going through 16 hours of training, paying $150, plus $50 for electronic fingerprints, and waiting 180 days for this to enact, PLUS 90 days for my app to get approved, PLUS another 30 if anyone objects and it needs reviewed..

... I'll be able to gain +2 seconds if I have to defend myself in my car.

You know.. it's just not really worth it. I can slap a magazine in to a firearm pretty quick and make it useful if I need to pull it from my console.

Virtually everywhere I actually GO ... is banned.

So what, really, have we gained?
 
IL Bill;

EVERY one of the prohibited places proposed by anti-gunners is in this bill. INCLUDING ones which were OVERWHELMINGLY voted down when madigan tried to pass his "legislation by piece meal amendment" crap earlier this year.

Many of the points we really need are omitted; public housing, public transportation, etc.

Fact is, I won't be able to carry a firearm in to ANY public place. Can't carry when I take my dog for a walk in the woods at McNaughten park. Can't carry when I take my kids to the playground, zoo, library, etc. Can't carry when I got to my lawyer's office because his parking lot is shared with Gov't owned buildings. Can't carry when I go fishing at the local stocked pond. Can't carry when I go shoot pool, even though I don't drink. Can't carry when I go to a cruise in or car show because it's a banned, gov't permitted event. Can't carry when I go watch the 4th of July fireworks. Can't carry when I go to a theater because it'll certainly be posted. Can't carry when I go to the bank to make a deposit because the parking lot is shared with the post office.

...

Virtually everywhere I actually GO ... is banned.

Very well put.

'Better' is not in itself 'good'. It is hard to argue with the objection that just about everywhere I actually go, and thus everywhere I would want to carry in Illinois, is prohibited by this proposal.

Liberty and freedom are worth fighting for, and the struggle will surely continue indefinitley. It only ends when we quit - thank you for all the work you have done for us all.
 
Short bit of thread-jacking... :uhoh:

In Arizona when the movement toward CCW started, the carry of concealed firearms by residents was prohibited by nothing less then a provision/article in the Arizona State Constitution. The only exception was for law enforcement officers.

That had to be addressed first, and changing a state's constitution is much harder then repealing or passing a law.

It took time and hard work, but look at us now. Not only is concealed carry allowed but a license/permit is not required. This applies to not only residents, but visitors as well. :cool:

My point? You have to start sometime - but then the road is in front of you, not behind.
 
Bishop to Queen 4.

If what we have is an opening move, it's not an especially strong one. The other side needs 60 votes to amend this down the road. We need 71.

The advantage is in their favor, we've given every concession they've asked for, except mandated insurance and home rule.

If 2014 elections don't go our way we're only a couple of votes away from having this de-facto may issue, restoration of home rule, etc.
 
Short bit of thread-jacking... :uhoh:

In Arizona when the movement toward CCW started, the carry of concealed firearms by residents was prohibited by nothing less then a provision/article in the Arizona State Constitution. The only exception was for law enforcement officers.

That had to be addressed first, and changing a state's constitution is much harder then repealing or passing a law.

It took time and hard work, but look at us now. Not only is concealed carry allowed but a license/permit is not required. This applies to not only residents, but visitors as well. :cool:

My point? You have to start sometime - but then the road is in front of you, not behind.

Oh I agree that this is a step ahead, and not back. We had nothing previously.

The throughway exemption, for instance, means an AZ citizen can drive through IL with a loaded firearm upon enactment. Anyone 'authorized' to carry a firearm in their home state is exempt as long as they are in their car. Since you don't NEED a permit to carry, you qualify by default.

Meanwhile I have to wait 9 months and pay $700+ in training, fees, etc to get the same right in my OWN state.

I mean.. that's just messed up. :)
 
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