I don't understand the rash of .380 pistols today.

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Uhm...that’s not nice.


I have an LCP so I know firsthand why people buy them. :rolleyes:


Bottom line is the LCP (or like) is just very convenient to carry. You truly don't notice the tiny 9 ounce gun.

When I carry a larger gun I'm always aware of it and I'm compensating for it. Such as not bending over in a natural way, or when I do, say pick something up, I'll then be sure to check to see if gun is still covered....that sort of thing.

You don't have to do this with the little .380s, people LIKE that.

About the .380 caliber. There is so much talk in gun forums about the most extreme version of an attack that many of us are convinced that even a .38 isn't enough to stop the bad guy. I don't see this outlook as the most realistic.

A .380 has enough power for a personal SD weapon. You aren't going to war with it, (nor would I want to) it is intended to stop an opportunistic criminal's attack.

Much of what we read about what the minimum needs of a caliber are, such as the 12 inches of penetration FBI standard, are intended for law enforcement needs. Which are often pretty different from civilian needs. (Not a lot of shooting through obsticals to hit the BG in the civilian world.)

So people buy the little .380s for ease of carry and becase the .380 will cover most situations where a civilian would need a gun.
 
I don't see how 9oz vs. 12-16oz is really an issue. If you stated the extra compactness of the LCP vs a PM9 or Rohrbaugh (negligible) or j-frame, or the price, then I'd understand. I mean, if you were just getting into guns and really couldn't afford more than $250 right then, I'd understand your point of view as well, because that's basically how I did it for a short while until I could buy better and realized the .32acp was a waste of time.
 
Outerlimit,as an old back packer I say you will notice the difference between a 10 ounce pistol and a 14-18 ounce pistol.
Put on a pair of shorts or pants with a cargo pocket and place both types of pistols in a pocket holster and insert and carry for a day.
You will definitely notice the difference.
 
I have both the Kahr PM9 & Kahr P.380 and can tell the difference when I carry one over the other. I nearly forget I'm carring the .380 but I always know when I have the 9mm. LM
 
If you are pocket carrying 5 or more ounces makes a noticeable difference, especially in the heat.
 
I have a problem understanding why so many gun manufacturers are coming out with .380 pistols for CCW market today.
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I can.
The CCW market has exploded. (no pun intended)
Millions are getting their permits. They don't want to carry a brick on their belts or in their pockets. So they opt for the LCP or Sig 238, or a myriad of small pocket guns.
Other than the $1100 Rohrbach, I don't know of any 9mm. pocket guns.
(I have a Kahr PM-9, and it's not a pocket gun, IMO)
 
There are so many folks getting permits now who don't want to or can't dress around a bigger gun than, say, the LCP/P3ATs of this world .

Given the size and weight of these little guns I, for one, wouldn't want one hotter than a well chosen hot .380 ACP even if they could build a 9mm the same size (which they can't).

These little guns are marginal for serious carry , as anyone who can read should know by now.

I like something larger and with more power if I can conceal it with my choice of clothing. I carry my .357 snub when I can. I can't or won't do that sometimes though.

It is at those times when I see very clearly why the .380 compacts are being produced so widely now and why I own one and carry it often.

I almost hate to do it. But I'll repeat the old saying that says - The best gun you can own when you get into a gunfight is the one you have with you.

That's an old philosophy, I know. It's also not rocket science. It's something all of us who carry can understand. (So do the manufacturers fortunately.)
 
heeler said:
Outerlimit,as an old back packer I say you will notice the difference between a 10 ounce pistol and a 14-18 ounce pistol.
Put on a pair of shorts or pants with a cargo pocket and place both types of pistols in a pocket holster and insert and carry for a day.
You will definitely notice the difference.
Click to expand...

I do plenty of biking, hiking, ect. I'm not disputing that there is a difference, I just find it negligible in my experience of pocket carrying guns heavier than the PM9. I lose more than 12 oz taking a leak. Some of you guys act like adding a few extra ounces is equivalent to hauling a 72-hour combat load around.
 
Outerlimit Quote: I do plenty of biking, hiking, ect. I'm not disputing that there is a difference, I just find it negligible in my experience of pocket carrying guns heavier than the PM9. I lose more than 12 oz taking a leak. Some of you guys act like adding a few extra ounces is equivalent to hauling a 72-hour combat load around.

For me its not about weight it's about size, cargo pants arn't my style, blue jeans are. I wear jeans that fit but not the baggy type either, and when you have an athletic build putting anything in my pocket much larger than a Kel-Tec or LCP sticks out like a sore thumb. I also don't wear my shirt tails hanging over my pants, they are tucked in, like western shirts should be. IMO.
 
Exactly, I understand that completely. The PM9 while small is a little more bulky than a typical .380 pocket gun. I do wear jeans myself, but I'm not a tuck in shirt type of guy. That provides a little more cover as well.
 
The difference in design is that most .380s are blowback design, rather than locked breech, which makes them easier and cheaper to design into a smaller pistol.

I'm not a fan of .380s in general, but modern ammo makes them much better than they used to be, and I am in the process of helping my mom into a gun, she has a poorly healed wrist injury which makes racking heavy slides or pulling DA triggers very difficult, so the two options I am looking at are a Beretta model 85, with a tip-up barrel, or a Walther KP 380, with a very light slide. The blowback design makes that feasible.
 
Outerlimit,as an old back packer I say you will notice the difference between a 10 ounce pistol and a 14-18 ounce pistol.
Put on a pair of shorts or pants with a cargo pocket and place both types of pistols in a pocket holster and insert and carry for a day.
You will definitely notice the difference.
Click to expand...


While this is true....


Carry it for a month and you WON'T notice the difference!


And NO, .380 is NOT 'adequate'....

If someone is trying to kill me.... it's a war. Call it what you want.

Hell, ALL pistols are marginal for self protection.

Reason their are so many of them...

People are lazy.
 
Memphis ER's are EXCELLENT places to study Gunshot wounds.

IIRC it was Tom Givins at the NTI a couple years ago who paraphrased their findings:

If your hit with a pistol... Your walking out (Statistically speaking) within 3 days.
If your hit with a rifle... you don't make it TO the ER.

I've only been 'around' one pistol shooting.

It took 13 rounds from an M9 (All torso hits except the last 2... which were to the head) to bring him down.

Hell, I don't think much of the 5.56! Let alone PISTOLS!
 
People are lazy.
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Whatever. Let's ask all the dead who were shot with a pistol for their opinion. Oh wait, we can't. They're dead. The news is filled with tragic deaths from pistol wounds so I don't buy the crap of them being as useless as BB guns.

In the highly unlikely event that you are attacked AND in the highly unlikely event that when the attacker doesn't wet his pants and run off like the coward that he is when he sees you are armed and you are forced to use deadly force, what we seem to forget here is that we are armed to preserve our lives, not to kill the attacker. If he dies as a result of the shooting then oh well but if our mission was to kill someone instead of stopping the threat then we should all carry a minimum of a .45. The .380 is good enough to stop a threat if you can use it as intended. Is it the best? No. In the highly unlikely event that you are attacked by some strung out zombie on PCP then your .45 won't stop him either.
 
some weight i don't think you notice unless your a light weight too start with.

i carry a xd45acp 4" all day up to 18-+ hours a day and don't notice it much, but my
CIA 850 38+p (Oz loaded) sometimes i forget i have it on. just depends on the style and holster you have, my keys weigh more then some guns i carry.

my 380 is just to get someone off me till i can get to a bigger gun. or if what I'm wearing wont conceal my 45 that well.
 
larry, speaking in likelihoods doesn't help much. If all of these things are so unlikely, it is a bad idea to carry a gun at all. The most LIKELY reaction a person has to being hit with a handgun bullet is to RUN AWAY. This means that a hit from a handgun is not likely to render the target unable to continue the attack.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I doubt anyone compared them to BB guns. All we are saying is, ALL handguns are a compromise because they are not the ideal tool for anything. I am in a situation where I am required to be armed at all times. I have the choice to carry a rifle or a pistol or both. For day to day activities, I keep the pistol. If there were any escalation of risk of any kind, I would immediately get the rifle. The pistol is to keep me alive until I can get to it, and if necessary eliminate threats BETWEEN me and the rifle. All I expect the pistol to do is stop immediate threats from trying to kill me. I have no illusions bout how effective it it to quickly kill or incapacitate. If I get a hit and they go down right now, I'm not going to assume they are done. If I get a hit, I am going to assume that they will keep fighting and coming at me. I do this no matter what weapon I am using.
 
Well, when one poster calls another lazy because that latter doesn't wish to carry around an extra 4oz or 6 oz or whatever.... well, I feel he crosses the line. It is a personal choice, after all. He backs it up by stating that he knows of someone who took 13 rounds to be taken down with 2 to the head. Very valid points. I can post thousands of links of people who died after 1 or 2 rounds. A .380 can kill. A .45 can kill. A .22 can kill. We all know this. By his words, if someone attacks him it is his duty to kill the attacker (declared war) but the normal SD situation is to stop the threat. He feels he needs an RPG to feel safe and others choose a .380 to feel safe. To each his own. When he calls others lazy because they don't feel the same as he does is out of line, period.
 
A LCP is much smaller than the smallest of 9mm's, even the PM9. (I don't count the astronomically priced Rohrbach). A LCP will fit in any pocket of any clothing, whereas even the PM9 won't fit properly in some clothing items.

I think the proper way to utilize a pocket gun is to bring your carry rate up to 100%. There is never a time, no matter your dress, that you can't have a pocket 380 on you. I try to carry my LCP as little as possible and instead carry larger guns, but sometimes it isn't that practical to carry a larger gun, so the LCP rides in my pocket. Yeah, it's no .45, but it beats the heck out of a sharp stick.
 
There has been a massive influx of new permit holders and women etc interested in SD, a .380 is often a preference of theirs, smaller size for smaller hands, low recoil etc
 
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