I'd like to ask for a ceasefire on the cop/anti-cop stuff.

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I personally do not think of myself as a cop basher. I like to think of myself as a "state" basher.

Most of what the state does is evil. Cops are the enforcement arm of the state.

This is a quandary that I frequently try to address and thus I am a cop basher.

They used to say that it was better that 100 guilty go free than one innocent be convicted.

Now they will stop 100 innocent drivers just so that they can find One in some non compliance. It seems to me like LEOs have to suspend logic in order to feel good about their job. I can understand the desire to stamp out crime, but when the lives of innocent citizens get ruined for victimless "crimes against the state" just so that a bad guy can get convicted requires a stronger stomach than mine.

This is a pro gun forum. Unless we are unabashed statists, we will agree that all gun control laws are unconstitutional. Yet the cops on this forum will run you in for it. If they don't they feel like they are doing a poor job.

Like I said, it's a quandary.

It's like those guys in the white plastic suits and goofy looking plastic helmets in "Star Wars". Most are probably dedicated and hard working. They think they are doing a good job, but in reality they are tools of the state and working for the evil empire.

It's a quandary.
:confused:
 
MUSTACHES! That's the key! I've dealt with cops in a variety of situations, and the bad ones all had MUSTACHES!!!!
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Well... police always seem to have some sort of moustache... everywhere in the world :)

I think I remember a quote from a Joseph Wambaugh novel that was something like "The LAPD headquarters is the only place on earth that has more moustaches than the Iraqi army..." :)


Regards,

Trooper
 
I have learned a lot discussing and reading the threads about what police should/shouln't have/had done, etc. etc.

I used to think that some of those "bad" cops just got off on power trips and knew what they were doing was wrong. From some of the responses here by self-professed LEO's, I found it surprising that some of these police actually believe they are in the right regardless of the Constitution. You know, the "let the courts sort it out, I'm just doing what I'm told" kind of stuff. THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT AND WITHIN THE LAW! That's what gets me.

I'm glad I know that now.
 
I personally do not think of myself as a cop basher. I like to think of myself as a "state" basher.
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Most of what the state does is evil. Cops are the enforcement arm of the state.
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They are "LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS"; yet, the vast majority of the laws they are enforcing have no Constitutional basis.
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That's why, in the end, I decided not to be a cop. I like the idea of protecting people. Getting the bad guy. All that jazz. But there are now so many ridiculous ways of defining "the bad guy" and so many draconian ways to get him, that I decided I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

That's not to say that all cops are statists; I understand they sometimes have a bit of leeway as to what to let slide and what to stop. And there are some who have been cops since before most of our present situation developed. But to me no amount of personal discretion could be enough unless my supervisor would openly back all decisions I would make on constitutional grounds.

A question I've been meaning to ask for some time now, and this seems as good a time as any, is directed to those good cops who happen to be libertarian in philosophy: How do you resolve this type of conflict?
 
Here2Learn wrote:

These "discussions" though are so nasty that no one is going to learn anything from them.
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I disagree. Here, and years ago at GlockTalk, are where I learned all about how (many) cops think - their views on the constitution, freedom & liberty, use of force, slience of the brotherhood (blue-wall), armed populace, etc...

There was a fellow on GlockTalk, CopTalk forum, who used to say that all he had to do to educate folks about cops was post a news story and let them start posting. That's very true, and it would be sad if this valuable resource was no longer available to newcomers.
 
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Some will always have the opinion that all cops are bad. They just hate law enforcement period. You'll never change their minds.

News stories about bad cops usually don't provide enough information to make an opinion one way or another but some do.

Those threads are mearly informational stories that at times turn into bashing threads. It will happen.

Its just like the liberal left thinking all gun owners are nut cases.

Each case has to be taken on a one on one basis with enough information to make an intelligent decision.

There also is the occasional cop who will chime in and declare no harm, no foul. Sometimes I think its done just to stir up the bee nest and most likely is done by those pretending to be cops.

The high road is a noble effort and for the most part followed here. Those who can walk that high road all the time I suspect are few and far between.

The rest of us are just human.
 
NEW FORUM!!!!

Let's call it the "Bad cop, no donut!" forum! ;)

I think it's kind of like guns, good examples of use hardly make the news but bad ones surely will. Same with cops, I don't think anyone here believes the majority are jerks.

I do think we need to be aware that some police and govt folks do lie and commit crimes. To be shielded from that truth sets us up to be led blindly by govt.

I think we would be better served with a "Govt abuses" catch all forum than too specific a forum.
CT
 
If you did that, make a "bad cop" forum, then I'd press to include its opposite, "good cop" forum. Where we praise news reports (dropped bad guy with one well-aimed shot, helped out a situation, went the extra mile, was a nice guy, ...). Would only be fair.
 
Can't we all just get along ?:D No way ! I'm here to get it on , not get along . The name of this particular fourm is Legal and Politcal , which are contriversal subjects on which there will be disagreement . I think it would get rather boring if everyone agreed on everything . As long as we remain mature , polite , and respectful as we disagree , I don't see anything wrong with it . I find this forum to be educational and entertaining .
 
I couldn't bring myself to read through this thread after page one: it is just more of the same.
I have what might be a different gripe with these police bashing threads. The Highroad is very PC. If someone is called a name or bashed based on their status as a minority, or because of their religion, the moderators trip over each other to close the thread and kick the offender off the board. But when someone calls a police officer a name or bashes police officers in general, usually nothing at all is done. There was a recent thread where the poster referred to police officers as pigs. Was the thread closed ? Not the last I saw. However, if you were to refer to one of the people this country is currently at war with as a pig, I guarentee you would be looking for a new board. Most of these threads start out bashing one pollice officer or one department and within the first couple posts turn into a thread bashing a group of people based on nothing but how they earn their living. It is just generalized hatred to one group of people. No different in any way from bashing any other group that is protected by the PC.

I would like to ask, why can't we all just get along ? Why can't we take the Highroad ? And obviously I have to ask, why the selective enforcement of the rules ? Why are the police fair game and other groups off limits ?
 
It is just generalized hatred to one group of people. No different in any way from bashing any other group that is protected by the PC.
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No, it is different.

I do not regularly read or hear of Black, Whites, Hispanics, Jews, or any other race of people regularly infringing upon other people's rights and freedoms under the color of law. There is only one group of people to which that action can be attributed to: LEO's.

Obviously not each and every LEO does such things. But you know how it goes, "some bad seed has to ruin it for the rest of us." We learned that on the playground at school, didn't we?
 
"There is only one group of people to which that action can be attributed to: LEO's."
And LEOs are Black, Whites, Hispanics, Jews, or any other race of people .
If you bash them as a group because they are all cops, that is OK. If you bash them because they are Black, Whites, Hispanics, Jews, or any other race of people then you are in violation of being PC and will be dealt with. Two different groups lumping different people together: one is OK, the other isn't.
 
444,

I should clarify that I know that the play on words was in all probablilty unintentional. Your posts are great. But can anyone hear or read, "Can't we all just get along" and not hear the slurred speech and see the battered face Rodney King?

On first composition I wrote in my post that I was "blown away" instead of the "stunning" wording. I laughed when I re-read it and saw my own ironic phrasing! :)
 
Mr. Doc Zinn said:
That's not to say that all cops are statists; I understand they sometimes have a bit of leeway as to what to let slide and what to stop. And there are some who have been cops since before most of our present situation developed. But to me no amount of personal discretion could be enough unless my supervisor would openly back all decisions I would make on constitutional grounds.

A question I've been meaning to ask for some time now, and this seems as good a time as any, is directed to those good cops who happen to be libertarian in philosophy: How do you resolve this type of conflict?
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So there you have it.

No cop bashing, just a simple request. A simple question.

The leos go away, leaving nobody but the authoritarian apologists and finally the originator asking if he can take his ball and go home.

The conclusion is obvious. This is a pro gun forum. Most on it are pro gun. There are two types of gunnies; The citizen and the tool of the state.

It is only natural for one of the gunnie groups (citizen) to be concerned that the other group (tots) is assisting the state (anti-gunny) in disarming them.

Isn't that plain enough? Why wouldn't they be cop bashers?

I personally have nothing against the LEO other than that he has sold his soul to the state. Do I think there will be a huge catharsis amongst the leos and they will all resign tomorrow? No.

They just have to understand that the cop is not our friend. When they have to choose between their job and their principles they must choose their job.
 
"There is only one group of people to which that action can be attributed to: LEO's."
And LEOs are Black, Whites, Hispanics, Jews, or any other race of people .
If you bash them as a group because they are all cops, that is OK. If you bash them because they are Black, Whites, Hispanics, Jews, or any other race of people then you are in violation of being PC and will be dealt with. Two different groups lumping different people together: one is OK, the other isn't.
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I hear people "bash" lawyers, politicians, used car salesmen/women, priests, prostitutes, etc. and no one whines about how un-PC it is. And they too are all made up of various races, genders, sexual preference, etc.

"Police" is not a race, or gender or sexual preference! It's a "profession." Get over it! (well, it may be a sexual preference, I really wouldn't know ;) ).
 
You clearly missed the point.
However in my opinion, you proved MY point.
In your opinion, it is wrong to make generalizations about sexual orientation, or race because you have been told so by the PC crowd. However, you think it is okay to do exactly the same thing based on some other criteria. That is OK because the PC crowd hasn't told you that is wrong. There seems to be a lack of logical thought involved in this.

If it is wrong to lump together a group of people and make gross generalizatons about them as a group then this applies no matter your criteria for lumping them together.
 
If it is wrong to lump together a group of people and make gross generalizatons about them as a group then this applies no matter your criteria for lumping them together.
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Granted, there are some here at THR who do consider ALL LEO's as bad. You and I and the vast majority of THR's know this not to be true. But most of us refer to JBT's. Is JBT's PC? Is that specific enough? To me, JBT, because of the T (Thug) designates those bad seeds only. Could this be a compromise?
 
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