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if you absolutely had to use a .22 for self defense?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by haplesshero, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. haplesshero

    haplesshero New Member

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    I have muscular dystrophy, severely limited hand and arm strength that will progressively get worse. I have spent over 2000 rounds behind my Walther P22 in the last month, countless hours playing with the internals (polished trigger and hammer, feed ramp, trigger bar ears, etc.), and have modified my magazines to allow 12+1 capability(which I practice with and works reliably, every time). I am capable of rapid fire, currently scoring 4-5 bullseye and the rest in the 9-10 range from a single mag at 10-15 ft without the use of a front post sight. I am comfortable with this weapon as a CCW.

    I do not care to hear the inadequacy of my choice of round. I have fired 9mm from a full size polymer, and although i scored one bullseye out of four shots, I was uncomfortable with the recoil, follow up ability, and the sheer stress on my muscles afterward.

    I currently keep the weapon loaded with CCI Stingers (I score the hollow points with a small phillips head screwdriver.) As soon as the opportunity presents itself, I plan to do some independent ballistics testing.

    In the meantime, what round would you use, if you absolutely had to use a .22 for self defense? In addition, are there any modifications to the rounds that may increase their limited expansion, penetration, or fragmentation capabilities (while still remaining within the bounds of the law)?
     
  2. gunsablazin

    gunsablazin Member

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    Your choice of CCI Stingers is a good one. Obviously, reliability is extremely important in a self defense pistol, and the round you are using is a "premium" .22LR round. The extra quality control used in their production reduces the chance of a mis-fire, like you commonly see with the cheaper "plinking" ammo you buy in bricks. If I were in your condition, I would not feel unarmed with a good .22, while not the best choice, in the hands of a competent shooter,it can be effective.
     
  3. RickMD

    RickMD Member

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    A lot of people have been killed quite dead with a 22 LR. I've personally seen more than a few. If you can shoot it well stick with it. A well placed shot with a 22 will beat a miss with a larger caliber any day. Remember that most felons prefer not to be shot with anything.
     
  4. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Senior Member

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    i feel much the same as you but with a Sig Trailside and CCI Stingers.

    i practice 3 shoot groups and at 21' a quarter will often cover each group.
    when i play this game ( arthritis is developing) i also practice with my Ace 4-derringer.
     
  5. Scimmia

    Scimmia Member

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    The Stinger is a good round, my only question would be penetration. Would this be a situation where ball ammo might be superior?
     
  6. 481

    481 Senior Member

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    To answer your question, if I was constrained to the use of a .22LR handgun for SD, I would use the fastest, yet heaviest practical (in .22 that would be 40 grain) plated RN bullet that I could find in order to insure adequate penetration. That accomplished, I would then train to place as many bullets into the vital zone of an assailant(s) in the shortest time possible.

    The reason I say this is that hollow point bullets in .22 are notorious for under-expanding (and failing to expand) even under the most optimal circumstances and usually don't weigh a full 40 grains to begin with. When .22 HPs do expand, that expansion is typically unimpressive at handgun velocities (the .22 isn't big to begin with) even with scoring the noses and what little penetration ability the .22 has is reduced by the braking forces induced by the expanded HP if it expands in the first place.
     
  7. ForumSurfer

    ForumSurfer Senior Member

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    I tend to agree with this. I was shot with a 22 CCI Stinger when I was 17. It fragmented and caused little damage other than a broken bone. I often wonder what would have happened if it had been an FMJ with just a teeny bit more penetration capability to get to the squishy stuff on the other side of said bone. Take that fwiw but if it were me, I'd be carrying some fast moving FMJ and save the stingers for small critters.
     
  8. 56hawk

    56hawk Senior Member

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    Yellow Jackets are the only 22s I have ever had any luck with. Of course this is with shooting small animals. Don't know how effective they would be on people.
     
  9. haplesshero

    haplesshero New Member

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    Thank you much, this was the sort of answer I was looking for, as penetration is my primary concern with .22 center mass shots. Luckily, minimags are also the most accurate round out of my weapon.

    Thanks again.
     
  10. Sky

    Sky Senior Member

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    That is pretty good shooten with the P-22.

    I had an uncle shot in the back when he was 10 years old from approx 50 yards with a 22fmj. He spent the rest of his life in a wheel chair.

    Personally knew a girl who shot a guy with a .22HP who had broken into her house. He was hit in the chest and ran outside where he fell over to rise no more.

    With the way you are approaching your self defense and the work you are putting into acquiring the skills necessary to protect yourself I have nothing but praise for you. Let us all hope we never have to fire a weapon in SD or out of anger.
     
  11. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer member

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    You might consider a 10/22 for home defense. You can buy 30 and 50 round magazines for them. There are also a lot of aftermarket mods available like folding stocks, etc. For most people such mods are toys, but for you it might make the best home defense system.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. JoeMal

    JoeMal Senior Member

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    Getting shot in the nose/eye/mouth would not feel pleasant, even coming from a .22. I think shot placement may be the bigger concern than ammo choice; FMJ or hollow point, being shot is going to make the BG think twice
     
  13. haplesshero

    haplesshero New Member

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    For home defense, I am considering a Saiga in 5.45x39. The action is smooth enough from factory, and i plan on polishing it a bit. Besides, with my interest in taking things apart, i feel it would be a fun project weapon and good survival choice, as well.

    Thank you though, the 10/22 is number three on my rifle list.
     
  14. 481

    481 Senior Member

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    Glad that I could help. :)

    You must be able to read minds also. :D After your last response, I realized that I had actually failed to name the round that I was describing in my response to you, but you nailed it anyway. :cool:

    From a 3.4" P22 barrel you can expect a muzzle velocity of 850-900 fps depending upon how your pistol barrel performs with that load.

    Have you had the opportunity to chronograph the CCI 40 gr. Minimags from your P22 yet?
     
  15. Chuck Dye

    Chuck Dye Member

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    On the ammo choice, Aguila Interceptor is touted as a 40 grain bullet, either solid or hollow point, at 1470 fps, presumably from a rifle barrel. I have yet to connect with any but have seen it on several vendors' web sites.
     
  16. KZinOKC

    KZinOKC New Member

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  17. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer member

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    That would be a better choice. I just assumed you'd need rimfire in a long gun also.
     
  18. Lawdawg45

    Lawdawg45 Member

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    haplesshero,

    If your wife is a good cook and can do biscuits and gravy some southern justice, I'll be your bodyguard 24/7:D

    Just wanted to give you a chuckle and let you know you're amongst friends. I was recently diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis, and while I'm not in your position, I've had to make some caliber and weapon adjustments. Hang in there and keep smiling!

    LD45
     
  19. Geckgo

    Geckgo Member

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    +1 for 40g solid minimags. Aguilla makes a 60gr bullet but they have problems in some weapons. Definitely test them first. I believe you can get them in solids.

    Most HP 22s will still have pretty adequate penetration for home defense, but I would vote no on the stingers. If you want a HP, get a velociter and call it good. Just my opinion.
     
  20. berettaprofessor

    berettaprofessor Senior Member

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    I'm sure that Robert Kennedy would not argue with the choice of a 22 for lethality.
     
  21. Rexster

    Rexster Senior Member

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    With nerve damage in my formerly strong hand, I have thought about this. The Beretta Cheetah has my attention.

    As for reliability, the Colt Ace I owned in the 1980's was flawlessly reliable in igniting .22 LR ammo, for many, many hundreds of rounds, perhaps into the thousands. I wish I could recall the brand, but it was NOT the cheap stuff. If I use a .22 LR for defense in the future, the CCI Mini-Mags will be on my short list of ammo choices, if the gun is accurate with it. As far as I can recall, my S&W Model 17 revolver, that I use for low-cost training, has ignited every Mini-Mag tried in it.
     
  22. Uniquedot

    Uniquedot Member

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    This would be my choice in the .22 lr. I have been pretty impressed with their small game performance when fired from rifles, but don't recall using them in a handgun.
     
  23. David E

    David E Senior Member

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    If the DA first shot of the P22 isn't a strength concern and yours is reliable, then it's a good choice.

    I'd load it with Stingers or CCI's SGB.

    I knew a guy who got shot in the leg with a .22 solid. The only reason he didn't load it with Stingers was because he forgot them. It was a thru and thru wound, causing very little damage. He was glad he forgot the Stingers.

    But I would not "score them with a screwdriver" for a couple reasons.

    The most critical element in this exercise is smart training. Being able to hit slowfire means little in a rapidly progressing defensive situation.

    Were it me, I'd practice rapid-fire hits to the high upper chest/neck/face area. I'd go for 4-5 hits per second in a grapefruit size group from 5-7 yards. Then add a second, then third target. Then add movement.

    If you could put 4 shots each into the head of 3 IPSC targets at 5 yds while moving in 5-6 seconds from start signal to last shot (holstered start) you'd be very formidable indeed.
     
  24. ForumSurfer

    ForumSurfer Senior Member

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    Everyone seems to always say this. It is all a matter of luck when it comes to the shot. Some say it hurts like stink, others never felt a thing.

    I will say that when I was shot with a 22, I honestly didn't know I was hit. If I had been committed to attacking someone, it wouldn't have slowed me down.

    I'm not doubting the caliber, I'm just stressing the importance of multiple, well placed rounds.
     
  25. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    If you can handle a Saiga 5.45x39 then you might consider the .223 instead. Weight is the same and recoil should be about the same but ammo is more abundant with more variety... this is probably going to be even more so in the future. Remember those cheap Russian mil-surp calibers that the supplies dried up, e.g. 7.62x25, 7.62x54R?
     

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