Indicators that someone will kill you.

[V4Vendetta]

Are there any? I just had a customer in my store who got real upset when I told him that I couldn't just give him a item for free because I couldn't find the price for it. He went into a rage screaming that he almost bought this store, he threatened to "tell the guy I work for" about this incident. This guy has a history of coming in here acting like a turd*. This is a family owned joint so I'm not worried about being fired. Finally he just left. I said good ridance. Now I'm wondering if he might come back and try to start a fight. According to him it was just a .10 cent item. I wasn't going to fall for that trick because I learned my lesson before when I accidently sold a item for just $3.00 above cost! He didn't say he wanted a fight but I have a bad vibe about him. What do you think?


*I'm not sure if I can use this word here but I'm gonna do it anyway.

 

[psyopspec]

Indicators that someone will kill you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are there any?

Sometimes. The human mind likes to think "I saw that coming a mile away" after an event transpires, often overestimating it's own predictive abilities.

However, there are some obvious signs that someone may be out to do you serious harm. The would include pointing a weapon in your direction, stalking menacingly toward you with weapon drawn, and other more covert behaviors that make the back of your neck stand on end.

To be honest I wouldn't worry about the guy that much. He may have been a scam artist, in which case he'd be stupid to return. Or perhaps he truly was a disgruntled customer, in which case he'll be happy to shop somewhere else.

In case I'm wrong (and so that if something happens I'll be able to say "I saw that coming from a mile away") steps you should take are:
1) Carry within the laws of your locality and the wishes of the management at your place of employment.
2) Non-lethal means like pepper spray are easily kept in a pocket.
3) ***Most important - keep your sitwits about you.
4) Have a cell phone handy. Know the address of your location. Immediately report suspicious activity to 911.

 

[MDG1976]

This is why I hated working in retail so much. This kind of crap happens all day, everyday.

 

[Meplat]

Are there any? I just had a customer in my store who got real upset...

My wife worked in a VERY busy physician's office for several years. Unfortunately, in any doctor's office, you are GOING to find a certain percentage of the patients who are drug "seekers". My wife was always told over and over again that a man who is yelling may or may not be a threat, but with certainty, if a man becomes enraged to the point of tears, hit the button for security NOW. Men who get mad enough to cry in public are on the brink of doing something foolish.

 

[V4Vendetta]

"Men who get mad enough to cry in public are on the brink of doing something foolish."

That's good advice.

"hit the button for security NOW."

The only security here is a large steel hammer under the register.

 

[trickyasafox]

sucking chest wounds

 

[Meplat]

"Men who get mad enough to cry in public are on the brink of doing something foolish."

That's good advice.

"hit the button for security NOW."

The only security here is a large steel hammer under the register.

Well, a large hammer trumps a closed fist...

Son works in retail, and deals with people who go into screaming fits all the time if they don't carry the correct brand of mayonaise. He seems to be able to shrug them off pretty well...most are WKA's (Well Known ***holes)...I don't consider him to be in a dangerous environment. I myself worked designing retail facilities, and the found the public at large to be pretty much okay. DID have a vendor helping me take measurements one time...very fat woman kept following us around, trying to intentionally step on the tape for a "slip and fall". Had a few who made a good living on the chain I worked for doing just that. When she followed us into an empty aisle, the vendor who was assisting me had enough, turned, got very close to her face, and whispered as menacingly as possible "Lady, if you trip on this thing on purpose, not only are you NOT going to collect any money, I'm personally going to strangle you with it while you lay there faking it." I freaked, figuring that he had just lost me my job, but it turned out the woman had quite a record of "slip and pay me's" and I never heard anything else out of it.

My wife - HER I worried about, as they refused to put up a bulletproof partition because of the cost. The local 7-11 can afford it but a medical clinic can't...???? Ah well. She never told them about the Taurus .38 at SOB...after all, someone in need of a fix can do a LOT of damage to a small woman before a security guard can get across the street.

She's mighty precious to me, and I'd much rather have to pay her legal defense fees than to attend her bedside at the hospital or worse yet, her funeral. Had anyone ever found out about it, she would of course have been summarily dismissed. Piss on 'em. There's more than one job. Only one woman who'd put up with me for as long as she has.

 

[RiverwinoIA]

i will be running my own retail shop in the next year, and currently run my fathers on occasion. I live in a small midwestern city, so the public is 99% docile and polite, however, there are a lot of "disadvantaged migrants" moving into the area and they seem to bring alot of crime and chaos with them.
Ive decided if someone presents a weapon, that is the only indicator i need that they may kill me. Its not like theres a certian twitch or poker tell that people do before they slash or pull the trigger. Everyone's different. Once the weapon has been presented, they are indicating they could kill me if they wanted, its go time.

 

[carebear]

If someone is throwing a fit but then goes scary calm is when I get concerned.

While they're yelling they're thinking about themselves and how angry they are, when they get preternaturally calm they have probably decided what they want to do about it.

 

[lee n. field]

Indicators that someone will kill you.
Are there any?

Try anyway. Yes there are.

Somewhere on the Net I've seen a cop training article, I think it was by M. Ayoob, on warning signs to watch out for (stance, hand motions, facial changes, etc. that all signal bad intent).

 

[pax]

Surf past http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html

pax

 

[David Blinder]

BEHAVIORAL ATTACK SIGNS-Body language is autonomic which means it happens without thought. Pre-incident indicators; detectable factors that occur before the outcome they predict. Always remember that the mouth can lie but the body doesn’t.

Fighting stance
Hands on hips
Cocked head
Fists and/or jaw clenching
Target glancing
Color changes – flushed or white rage
Bobbing on heals
Growling

No checklist is complete but pre-incident indicators are part of the incident- DON’T IGNORE THEM.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

What makes me wonder about this is:

If a person is disturbed enough that they would consider hurting a person who is not threatening them, could they be disturbed enough to knowingly conceal the recognition factors that many have made mention of?

I have heard that a common thread among serial killers is the lack of remorse for their sins. This is highly unusual for people and makes me wonder if there are some 'bad people' who realize what 'good people' consider to look like a threat?

JE223

 

[CAnnoneer]

Buildup is the most telling. Except for a few total sociopaths, most people need to get revved up - raising their voice, going into a fit, etc.

When you see that happening, there are only two options:
1) leave immediately
2) interrupt their prelaunch sequence with a cannonade of your own

Unfortunately, most people freeze up instead and often become victims. To prevent freeze-up one must train oneself mentally and physically. Good results can be achieved with moderate effort, but there are downsides.

 

[Meplat]

i will be running my own retail shop in the next year, and currently run my fathers on occasion.

Much luck in your endeavor.

Ive decided if someone presents a weapon, that is the only indicator i need that they may kill me. Its not like theres a certian twitch or poker tell that people do before they slash or pull the trigger. Everyone's different. Once the weapon has been presented, they are indicating they could kill me if they wanted, its go time.

I too pretty much take it as a given that once a weapon comes out, intentions are clear. What I took from the intitial question was "what are some of the tell-tale signals that someone might be inclined to harm (kill) me". IOW, the sublte clues that lead up to the presentation of arms. Someone else posted some very good visual indicators: i.e., balled fists, flushing or going suddenly pale, etc. All good signs that things are heading south. Then again, there are enough loose screws wandering out there that you may not get ONE indicator that someone intends you harm. Saw that in the attacks on white dudes in Dallas by gang kids for fun. Idea of the game was to sucker punch someone and knock them cold with one blow. They showed more than one videotape of THAT sport. (Side note...where the HELL were the Hate Crime Police on that one???) Once the weapon is displayed, you are no longer HEADING south, you're smack dab in the heart of Dixie.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Great link, pax. Thanks.

 

[Meplat]

Surf past http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html

pax

Excellent site. Printed copy for each family member, and bookmarked. Thanks!

 

[f4t9r]

Just be alert and watch for the guy to come back, better to be prepared then not

 

[Ryder]

I've always been told flat out. The words are different but they all meant the same thing. Objects such as big knives, guns. and tire irons pretty much seal the deal. Wondering if you will see tomorrow is not a good feeling. I'd have rather lived my life without knowing what that's like. There is no guessing about it, you will know.

Some people are always angry, some just have a bad day. I've even seen a few who test others with a show of anger to see if they are worthy of being their friend. That doesn't mean they will cause you physical harm.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

BTDT.

Had a guy pounding on my door early one morning, before opening. I figured it was a regular customer, so in condition white, I opened the door.

The guy was SCREAMING: "YOU KNIFED MY UNCLE, I KNOW IT WAS YOU"

I'm trying to make sense of this. I'm just a guy selling trophies to kids playing T-Ball.

"I What?"

"YOU KNIFED MY UNCLE. I KNOW IT WAS YOU, HE DROVE A BLUE FORD TRUCK, SO DO YOU!"

I finally got the door locked, got the police called, and got it taken care of. BTW, I was NOT armed then, but have been since.

Some people just have it in for the retailer, that's life. After all we are making the BIG bucks, right?

interrupt their prelaunch sequence with a cannonade of your own

Excellent! Sometimes this is the only thing that works.

 

[Mannlicher]

What do you think?

that you should take your meds? That you should not take things personal? Its difficult to answer your question, but are you mature enough to work in retail?

 

[ACP]

Coincidentally, I just took my "Violence in the Workplace" seminar Thursday, and brought home the Powerpoint presenation.

According to the former firearms instructor/social worker who taught the 75-minute class, the warning signs are:

*irrational beliefs and ideas (i.e. 'tinfoil hat')

*a recent termination or layoff or the perception there will be one soon

*verbal, nonverbal or written threats or intimidation

*a history of interpersonal conflict

*fascination with weaponry and/or acts of violence

*comments about being so hurt, he/she thinks someone else should be hurt

*expressions of a plan

*externalizing blame

*difficulty accepting authority

*unreciprocated romantic obsession

*taking up too much of supervisor's time with behavior or performance problems

*argumentative/uncooperative with coworkers

*drastic change in belief systems

*unwarranted anger

*new or increased source of stress at home

*inability to take criticism

*disobeys company policy and is proud of it

*feelings of being victimized

*sense of moral righteousness

*sense of entitlement

*intoxication

*expressions of hopelessness or heightehed anxiety

*productivity and/or attendance declines

*special treatment by others, i.e. softening of evaluation, avoiding confrontation

*violence toward inanimate objects (i.e. throwing things, damaging electronics)

*steals or sabotages equipment

*lack of concern for others



COPING STRATEGIES:

DON'T reject all demands from the start; make physicial contact; strike a challenging pose; make long eye contact; make sudden movements; challenge or dare; belittle or make foolish; critiicze or act impatiently; attempt to bargain; try to make the situation seem less serious than it is; make false statements or promises you cannot keep; try to impart a lot of technical information; take sides or disagree with distortions; invade the personal space (allow six feet)

DO: project calmess; be an empathetic listener; focus your attention on the other person; be relaxed yet attentive; acknowledge their feelings; ask for small, specific favors, such as moving to a quieter area; establish ground rules if unreasonable behavior persists; use delaying tactics to allow person to calm down; be reassuring; point out choices; ask other person's recommendations, then repeat them back; arrange yourself for a quick exit if necessary.

Where I work (state government office), we have panic buttons and a police force. We can silently press a panic button and have armed police there in 60 seconds, or we can pick up a phone, dial an extension and say 'I know someone who can help you' and call the police with a phrase like "there's a gentleman here who has a problem with x-y-z and I believe he needs your help."

 

[AVESguy]

ACP

That list is right out of "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin deBecker.I'm reading it right now.

Very interesting read about how to ID problem unstable people in the workplace and elsewhere.

The starter of the thread should get a copy and read it ASAP.

AVESGUY

 

[357wheelgunner]

3) ***Most important - keep your sitwits about you.

I always keep my "sitwits" about me

 

[bogie]

My plan, should one of my cow-orkers go nutzo...

I figure I'll be shifting into second gear as I clear my office door, and then it's a straight shot about 50 yards or so to the loading dock. I figure that even being old, fat and crippled, I can get there within 10-15 seconds. I sincerely hope that there's nobody in front of me, because they'll have size 12W imprints on 'em, since I don't change direction too well...

The other day, one of the carpenters fired an anchor... First I went to draw, realized it wasn't there, then I looked for which direction to run....

er... Is proper planning to prevent poor procedure one of those indicators?