Would you have pulled a gun out?

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Golden_006

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Strange thing happened to me last night. I get off the bus right in front of my building and some panhandler starts asking me for money; it happens all the time in that area no big deal. But this was different this individual was more aggressive and rambling and walking along side with me talking nonsense about how a I was blessed by the lord and how nice a I was and everything . . but really aggressive demeaner.

Finally I just dig into my pocket to give him some change, to get rid of him, but he was saying that wasn't enough; how he needs paper money to feed his kids yadya yada; and how i couldn't just give him the money I had to go to the store with him and buy it for him. At one point he shook my hand lefty but he didn't let go of it; and had his other hand -- his right one and assuming his good one -- in his pocket like he has holding a gun or knife (which he had his hand in pocket the whole time). At some point I just said: I'm giving you a dollar and going inside. So I get out my wallet and while I was doing that he said he needed $10. I just gave him a dollar and he just quickly walked away and I did also. It was strange more than anything else. He actually didn't seem like a bad person just desperate as all hell. Would you pulled a gun on him?
 
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If somebody grabs my hand and doesn't let go my response is to get them off as quickly as possible, even if I have to send them to the ground. It shouldn't matter if they're asking for money or not.
 
Just to clarify: he just held it too long during the handshake; like 5-6 seconds; not holding it the whole time this whole exchange was occuring; although oddly with a right hand in a front jacket pocket. And while I was like: can I have my hand back now he was like: oh nice grip or whatever.
 
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First error ... you gave him something. After that he is, in his mind at least, there by invitation.

All he would have gotten from me was a "no thank you", and then be ignored. If that doesn't get the message across, the next message will be "GO AWAY!" delivered loud enough to be heard on the next block.

If he touches me after that, he's going to the ground, one way or another, and I'm on my cell calling 911.
 
Would you pulled a gun on him?
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If I pull a gun, it's because I generally intend to use it.

I only intend to use a gun if I am in danger of death or severe bodily injury, or one of my loved ones is.

Having someone ask me for change does not fall into that category.

A loud and stern (but controlled) "NO" would have probably done the trick.
 
It wouldn't be a question of whether or not to show my gun, because I open carry. It's very handy to open carry in situations like that. You can just pat your pocket closest to the gun which draws attention to the gun and state that you don't have any cash on you.
 
I tell them to back off with a loud assertive tone the second their body language indicates they are approaching me. I have taken a few cursings, but they always have.
 
You don't pull a gun unless you're ready, willing and justified in its immediate use as a deadly weapon.

I learned some time ago that there is nothing to be gained from engaging a panhandler. Many of them seize on any positive response as a signal to get more aggressive. A stern "no" usually sufficies to convey the message. They'll move on to more fertile ground.
 
...first thing...

...I would have done had he approached me to panhandle with a hand in his pocket would have been to order him in command voice to get his hands out of his pockets...his response would have determined the next step...if he's on the street, he's probably heard that before and believe me, he knows why you said it...I routinely buy bums food...seldom give them cash...
 
Sheepdog makes a good point about the "Hands!" command. That's valid, IMHO.

The late Col. Cooper makes another good point about "never let a stranger take control of one of your hands on the street" (paraphrase from "principles"... a good book).

The rules of lawful gun use are mostly set at this point, and I'd be hesitant to push up against them unless I felt I had no choice.

Like the others, I'd primarily want to see those hands, and I'd also become pretty uncooperative if someone grabbed my hand without an invitation.
 
Two mistakes. You shouldn't have shaken his hand, and you shouldn't have taken him to your home. Not pulling a gun was not one of your mistakes. Just because a guy is homeless doesn't mean he can't call the cops on you.
 
ChaoSS said:
Two mistakes. You shouldn't have shaken his hand, and you shouldn't have taken him to your home. Not pulling a gun was not one of your mistakes. Just because a guy is homeless doesn't mean he can't call the cops on you.
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I agree 100%. And imo.....don't pull out your weapon unless you intend to use it. In some areas, there's an advantage to OC. But that's a whole different can of worms.
 
I don't see anything in the OP that would have justified pulling my gun. There was no threat of death or grave bodily injury. I would have first told him "Sorry, can't help you" and then "Back off", slapping his hand away as he tried to shake it. There's no way in hell I'd be pulling my wallet out for the guy.
 
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I have demeanor and a way off keeping those people completely away from me. I can’t explain exactly how I do it; the way I carry myself and a complete disregard for the fact that they even exist. They get the point pretty quick.

I do however regularly give to charities like Food for Lane County, and the Salvation Army, I know my hard earned money is going to help people in a wholesome way when I do that.
 
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No need to deploy a weapon. I think you need to work on your contact skills, especially distancing.

1) You should not have let him get that close to you.
2)Your demeanor including tone of voice, posture and body language, facial expression etc., should have indicated to him that you preferred to keep distance and that violating that distance would have consequences.


Where I live the panhandling population is large in good economic times. Right now they are everywhere. I rarely get asked anymore, usually only by the amateurs, and it's been over a decade since anyone has tried to lay hands on me while panhandling.

I don't mean-mug people on the street, I am polite but curt. When I say no I mean it.

It's not easy to explain this in a simple post reply.

There is a definite systematic science to how these things develop, from a simple spare change request to a full blown criminal interview. Southnarc calls it Managing Unknown Contacts. Other instructors have different names for it. The most generic term you'll hear used frequently is situational awareness. In my opinion MUC is a distinct subset of situational awareness. It's an absolutely essential skill and in my opinion is more important than weapons skills due to the fact that prevention is always preferable to treatment.
 
okespe04,
Sorry about the cross-post.
I do believe we share the same piece of real estate, at least temporarily. I'm in Eugene right now and will be finalizing my move up to Portland at the end of the week. I moved to the 13th ST area in Eugene about 12 years ago when it was still a transient circus side show. Almost as bad as San Francisco back then, but it's been relocated a few times and the intensity has certainly diminished.

I'll be happy to finally get the hell out of Lane County. It's like the wild west out here. For a county of this size to have a crime rate this high is absolutely ridiculous.
 
I still can't get past the thought of you or anyone acually shaking hands with a potentially dangerous person. Then you take out your wallet in front of your home?
Did you grow up in Mayberry? :) just kidding. However, seriously, no I wouldn't have pulled my gun but then again he wouldn't have gotten a word out of me either. I completely ignore their words (not their actions).
If by some wierd chance my hand was grabbed, someone will be replacing some knee components.
 
Ideally, I see them in advance, get some change ready. Walk past them fast, moving with purpose, and hand them the change w/o a pause. They look at what I gave them, by the time they see it's 2 pennies and a bottle cap (whatever), I'm 3 steps away and still movin' out. They're on to the next...
 
At one point he shook my hand lefty but he didn't let go of it; and had his other hand -- his right one and assuming his good one -- in his pocket like he has holding a gun or knife (which he had his hand in pocket the whole time). At some point I just said: I'm giving you a dollar and going inside. So I get out my wallet and while I was doing that he said he needed $10.
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I would not have drawn because it sounds like he wasn't actually presenting an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. He *WAS* however assaulting you. This would have been a good time for Mr. Boot to send him to Mr. Sidewalk, followed by an exit and call to the police to report the incident.

I absolutely NEVER, EVER give money out to pan handlers. Both as a moral matter and a tactical one. Body language means a lot, as well. There are a ton of panhandlers around here esp. in the summer, but I virtually never get asked for change. I sometimes even nod to the guys, but I guess they don't view me as a mark. Either that or the fact that I'm riding a bike around with a trailer in ratty clothes identifies me as a "fellow traveler." LOL
 
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NEVER pull out your wallet in front of a panhandler. Period.
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A-freakin'-men. That's a GREAT way to end up bleeding on the ground, sans wallet.

Also, 5-6 seconds is too long for a handshake. I probably wouldn't have physically pushed him away from me, but I would have made it clear (in a loud, assertive voice) that he needed to let go.

Other than that, I don't necessarily agree that giving change or a few bucks to street folk is a bad idea. HOWEVER - if I'm in a situation where I'm gonna hand over some bucks, I have it ready in a pocket or in my hand BEFORE I ever reach the person. That way, I don't expose myself any more than necessary, and I sure as heck don't show them that I have a whole wallet full of more cash. That's just silly.

Personally, I'm pretty likely to help out with a little change - unless the individual acts like the fellow in the OP's post did. If I give you something, it's because I'm trying to help. While it might not be a huge amount, gratitude goes a long way with me. The instant someone gets pushy, demanding, or mouthy with me, they're cut off, and instructed to get the h*ll away from me before I get angry.
 
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