Homeless shelters often don't have room for everyone, soup kitchens often don't have enough food to go around. If you don't want to give money to someone, fine, but don't guilt people out of giving somebody a few bucks so he can have a little booze to stay warm at night. I wouldn't try to guilt anyone into charity, I'm not particularly charitable myself, but what you are doing is despicable.Mr.Davis said:
Would you have pulled a gun out?
- Thread starter Golden_006
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cubesmoothie
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no, if he tried anything bad just kick his ass. Dont draw a gun on the feller unless he pulls out somethin that can kill you, knife or gun. And you have no right to tell anyone to get their hands out of their pocket.
maxxwilde
Member
An overly long handshake could be a set-up, but in this case it sounds more like a sign of overly dominating behavior. I've seen it with aggressive salesman and thugs. The not breaking contact first combined with steady eye contact is their way of trying to be in control. Just food for thought...
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ozarkgunner
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I wouldn't have pulled my gun unless he had a weapon in his hand, visible, or made some other menacing move. I also, definitely, would not have shook his hand. Not to be rude, but to not give him a hand hold. If I had any loose change or small bills in my pocket I may have given him some. And if he had taken my hand in any manner, i would have disengaged and put him in a hand or arm lock and then would tell him to leave or I would be pulling my weapon and calling police. Weapon pulled only in a defensive manuver to prevent any further confrontation or attemplted bodily contact.
Once upon a time I was far more charitible than I am today, due mostly I guess to the more agressive attitudes the beggars seem to have. I get weary of the same old Pontiac with the hood up with the same well used sign claiming a need for a new alternator to get to Kentucky blah blah blah in the parking lot of the SuperWalMart down the road from me. The old fart refuses change, only folding money is welcome and thanks for the help is never heard when a sucker steps forward.
Yes, charity does indeed begin at home, but I do not set a very good example for my kids I guess.
One way to determine the validity of a plea for help is whether the recipient will accept a meal or a gallon of gas in lieu of cash. Frequently cash is all they will accept it seems.
Yes, charity does indeed begin at home, but I do not set a very good example for my kids I guess.
One way to determine the validity of a plea for help is whether the recipient will accept a meal or a gallon of gas in lieu of cash. Frequently cash is all they will accept it seems.
mljdeckard
Member
I think this was at least one step away from drawing. Ask yourself this, could you feasibly explain to the D.A. (Through your lawyer) that you were genuinely in fear of your life? It doesn't sound like it to me.
I have become harsh with panhandlers. I first give them a sharp look, to let them know I'm in no mood, and if they approach anyway, I hold out a hand, and say no. The problem you had in this situation was that he was already too close. You violated the three-step rule. If it HAD escalated to the use of force, you are now trying to break a hold and possibly draw with your weak hand, and you would be struggling to keep control of the gun. This is why we keep them at a safe distance to begin with.
I have become harsh with panhandlers. I first give them a sharp look, to let them know I'm in no mood, and if they approach anyway, I hold out a hand, and say no. The problem you had in this situation was that he was already too close. You violated the three-step rule. If it HAD escalated to the use of force, you are now trying to break a hold and possibly draw with your weak hand, and you would be struggling to keep control of the gun. This is why we keep them at a safe distance to begin with.
YammyMonkey
Member
Absolutely no reason to escalate to deadly force, but based on your description he could have warranted a hand up & firm "No thank you." Further response would depend on his reaction to the above.
philobeddoe
Member
pull a gun ... no.
but why exactly did you shake his hand?
regardless of how assertive he may have been, you willingly put your hand in his hand, correct?
and you took out your wallet?
he distracted you, he rattled you, and you were soliciting his permission to end the confrontation
respectfully, i think you need to rethink your strategy and tactics.
but why exactly did you shake his hand?
regardless of how assertive he may have been, you willingly put your hand in his hand, correct?
and you took out your wallet?
he distracted you, he rattled you, and you were soliciting his permission to end the confrontation
respectfully, i think you need to rethink your strategy and tactics.
Averageman
Member
Just as a thought,..Dont offer your hand to anyone, especially your right (gun) hand if you are a righty. if not for security reason,..ummm where you think that hand might have been lately...they dont make enough hand sanitizer.
Letting someone get inside your space allows them to neuteralize your ability to use your weapon.
Now if you are carrying you might not be in a minute. This guy could be a graduate of every juvenile home and prison you've ever heard of and he might know alot more about this than you do.
A very loud and forceful "Get the .... Back" usually gets the point across. From that point on keep moving to where you are going. if he gets closer and intimidating then give him a good nose and eye full of Pepper Spray.
Call the LEO's when you get inside. Report this as an attempted robbery give a good description and let them deal with it.
I would tell the store manager you wont shop there until he keeps the bums away and that you will report this as an attempted robbery to the local newspaper.
Think it is overeacting??
I don't, you are a grown man and maybe it was just a strange experiance for you.
BUT
Imagine though that it is your 70 year old Mother trying to get in the store or an Old Crippled WWII vet, or a young Mom with a baby in her arms and one in her belly. If these scum bags get all aggrresive with you, a grown, adult, healthy Male, what will they do to the more vulnerable?
It's strong arm panhandling. or as I prefer robbery lite
Letting someone get inside your space allows them to neuteralize your ability to use your weapon.
Now if you are carrying you might not be in a minute. This guy could be a graduate of every juvenile home and prison you've ever heard of and he might know alot more about this than you do.
A very loud and forceful "Get the .... Back" usually gets the point across. From that point on keep moving to where you are going. if he gets closer and intimidating then give him a good nose and eye full of Pepper Spray.
Call the LEO's when you get inside. Report this as an attempted robbery give a good description and let them deal with it.
I would tell the store manager you wont shop there until he keeps the bums away and that you will report this as an attempted robbery to the local newspaper.
Think it is overeacting??
I don't, you are a grown man and maybe it was just a strange experiance for you.
BUT
Imagine though that it is your 70 year old Mother trying to get in the store or an Old Crippled WWII vet, or a young Mom with a baby in her arms and one in her belly. If these scum bags get all aggrresive with you, a grown, adult, healthy Male, what will they do to the more vulnerable?
It's strong arm panhandling. or as I prefer robbery lite
scoutsabout
Member
I try to initially use a respectful but firm conversational/pleasentries kind of tone in these situations. Beyond the initial contact, my tone changes dramatically. Fewer words and a flatter, more assertive tone.
Initial pester: Eye contact and "Not today. Have a good one."
Further pestering: Attempt to put a physical barrier between us, make eye contact with a more serious face, firm posture, a palm and "I said no. Now back off, dude."
Yet further pestering: Depending on circumstance, become scarce or stand my ground. In either case, a commanding voice is in order. If I have to use a commanding voice, the police get a call -- the guy's harrassing me or attempting to initiate a mugging.
We got lots of practice with this in Iraq. You must remain firm and respectful, but never leave yourself at a disadvantage. Many times, in the sandbox or here in the evergreen state, the necessary deterrent was body language. You can say a lot with your posture, hands, facial expression and eyes, and physical orientation to the potential aggressor and your surroundings. If you look like you're getting serious and defensive, but self confident... they usually back off. They are typically watching your behavior just as much as you are theirs.
In these kind of dynamic scenarios, the only thing we can do is continue to gauge the situation, maintain situational awareness, and listen to our gut. If at any point we feel in danger, it is not unreasonable to take a defensive posture and put hand to weapon. We don't necessarily need to draw, which could be construed as brandishing, but reducing our presentation time could be a good idea. No need to telegraph. Turn your gun side away. Keep moving and be aware of your surroundings, and any other people around you.
Don't be afraid to listen to your gut. Don't let people bully or harrass you. Respond to strange people doing strange things assertively, immediately, and in no uncertain terms.
If it gets rushed, you can blurt something like "Hey, you're freakin' me out, dude... back off... NOW."
I warded off a cigarrette bummin' gas station thug one time. It was obvious that he was using the panhandler's come-on. He didn't seem like he really wanted a cigarette. My only words were "I don't smoke." When he kept coming, and mumbling something about a cigarrette, the flag went up in my brain and I gave him a stone-faced stare. He sized me up, noticed that he couldn't see my hands and that I was serious... and froze in his tracks. He had this look of recognition on his face, like the realization that he'd been busted. Then he said "whoa... it's cool man... " showed me his palms and backed away. On that occasion, it was all about what I didn't say.
I kept an eye on him, finished my fuel-up and got on down the road. I don't know what he wanted, but I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't a cigarrette.
.
Initial pester: Eye contact and "Not today. Have a good one."
Further pestering: Attempt to put a physical barrier between us, make eye contact with a more serious face, firm posture, a palm and "I said no. Now back off, dude."
Yet further pestering: Depending on circumstance, become scarce or stand my ground. In either case, a commanding voice is in order. If I have to use a commanding voice, the police get a call -- the guy's harrassing me or attempting to initiate a mugging.
We got lots of practice with this in Iraq. You must remain firm and respectful, but never leave yourself at a disadvantage. Many times, in the sandbox or here in the evergreen state, the necessary deterrent was body language. You can say a lot with your posture, hands, facial expression and eyes, and physical orientation to the potential aggressor and your surroundings. If you look like you're getting serious and defensive, but self confident... they usually back off. They are typically watching your behavior just as much as you are theirs.
In these kind of dynamic scenarios, the only thing we can do is continue to gauge the situation, maintain situational awareness, and listen to our gut. If at any point we feel in danger, it is not unreasonable to take a defensive posture and put hand to weapon. We don't necessarily need to draw, which could be construed as brandishing, but reducing our presentation time could be a good idea. No need to telegraph. Turn your gun side away. Keep moving and be aware of your surroundings, and any other people around you.
Don't be afraid to listen to your gut. Don't let people bully or harrass you. Respond to strange people doing strange things assertively, immediately, and in no uncertain terms.
If it gets rushed, you can blurt something like "Hey, you're freakin' me out, dude... back off... NOW."
I warded off a cigarrette bummin' gas station thug one time. It was obvious that he was using the panhandler's come-on. He didn't seem like he really wanted a cigarette. My only words were "I don't smoke." When he kept coming, and mumbling something about a cigarrette, the flag went up in my brain and I gave him a stone-faced stare. He sized me up, noticed that he couldn't see my hands and that I was serious... and froze in his tracks. He had this look of recognition on his face, like the realization that he'd been busted. Then he said "whoa... it's cool man... " showed me his palms and backed away. On that occasion, it was all about what I didn't say.
I kept an eye on him, finished my fuel-up and got on down the road. I don't know what he wanted, but I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't a cigarrette.
.
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