intruder with a knife-nearly shot him

[greywolf444]

I was awakened by my wife to what sounded like a fight in my yard. Lots of yelling going on. at 5am. I live in the country and don't have many visitors in the daylight. I could hear and see that someone was banging on the front door. I could see it moving with each blow. I looked out the window and saw a man on the porch holding a long knife, he turned and walked down the walk to the driveway. The yelling continued but I only saw one man. I stepped out onto the porch (I know -tactical error) and asked "what do you want?" He said to go ahead and "call the cops-I don't care". I asked him why are you here and got the same answer. At this point he put his arms straight out in front of him (exactly like the isosceles postion) turned and walked straight toward me. I have heard about tunnel vision-its real-all I could see was that siler blade coming toward me. DROP THE KNIFE, DROP THE KNIFE, GODDAMMIT DROP THE KNIFE. No response and he's still coming. My 357 was coming up to level and at my finger was tightening. I remember seeing the hammer start to move back. One last time I yelled out "DUDE DROP THE KNIFE" . He stopped at 6 feet. lowered his arms and said " I have alzheimer's". He looked to be about 50 years old. Covered in mud and leaves. This guy had been out in the fields for a while. I disarmed him and set him down on the porch. He had some sort of dogtags around his neck that said "if you find me call XXXXX". The wife called his family and they didn't want to come get him. Finally tracked down his son who came and got him.
Apparentently he sees imaginary people and tries to fight them. I believe he thought that I was imaginary too. It was odd the way he approached with his arms straight out and not slashing or jabbing just walking straight ahead.

some things I learned

As much as love my 1911 the trigger much too light. I would have shot
him as he approached without even trying. the heavier pull on the revolver saved his life. and I can live with that.

it took entirely too long to load the revolver even with the speed loader
(is always loaded now)

probably shouldn't have gone out,but, its my property and I thought it
was just some drunks to run off. ( It's never what you think it is.)

We all try to plan for various scenarios ,but, who plans for something like this? where they don't respond and don't retreat. (expect the unexpected)

Have better lighting and a good flashlight.

I thankful that I didn't shoot him knowing how it turned out but in the heat of the moment I could have and would have felt justified in doing so.

Btw-calling the law would have been pointless, if they have anyone working they still wouldn't have come anytime soon. its always been this way in my rural county and I won't call them unless I need a report taken.

 

[blackrussian]

Hell of a first post. Good self control, btw.

 

[WardenWolf]

His family didn't want to come get him. Wonderful. This guy needs to be in a permanent care facility. I love it when people delude themselves into thinking they can keep a crazy person at home instead of doing what's best for them.

 

[greywolf444]

they told us that his wife was in the hospital and no one was around to make him take his meds. when someone wears a dog tag that reads "if you find me..."
you know there have been problems before.


It really is sad. I hope my kids take better care of me if this happens.

 

[cbrgator]

His family didn't want to come get him. Wonderful. This guy needs to be in a permanent care facility. I love it when people delude themselves into thinking they can keep a crazy person at home instead of doing what's best for them.

Absolutely. Next time, the poor guy may not be so lucky. He needs care!

Good job, by the way. You definitely shouldn't have gone outside, but it sounds like you assessed the situation well once out there, and you both lived.

 

[mothermopar]

You took a huge risk by going out... you nearly killed a man with alzheimers... all horrible situations to put yourself and/or others in... BUT...

You probably saved his life by taking that first step outside. If you'd have let him walk away, who knows... hit by a car, killed by someone with less self-control, died of exposure, starvation, thirst...

It started out BAD, but you did a hell of a job pal! Good story. Good work. Good citizen.

Honestly, the world needs more brave (and caring) folks such as yourself.

*Thought I was going to criticize you at first, huh?!?! LOL

 

[shockwave]

Wow - what a story. That could have wound up most unfortunately. Even with the revolver, that was a close call; given that the fellow was a ways off, in this situation I might have gone SA and that's hair-trigger on the S&W. One tool I keep around is a "jo," or fighting staff. It's about 5 feet long and solid ashwood. If some drunk is on my property I might put a pistol in my pocket but if I came out I'd have the jo in hand.

it took entirely too long to load the revolver even with the speed loader

Yes, I keep mine fully loaded with full speedloaders for each next to the guns. I wonder why you picked the revolver in this case - just closer by and easier to grab? Anyway, congrats on your close call.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

You did a great job. I live in the city, and if that had happened to me, I would've waited until he got through the door and dropped him.

Taking the time to look out the window and step outside to confront him saved that man's life and saved you a lot of trouble and lost sleep.

How did you disarm him?

 

[CWL]

Thank you for your humanity and self control. Whatever "armchair quarterbacking" we offer, you handled it right because everyone lived, the son got him and you don't have to deal with any guilt. That man needs help, probably more than his family can afford.

 

[KodiakBeer]

That was first rate! You kept cool enough not to shoot, but were obviously ready to if it had gone much further. You're a good and compassionate man. I salute you!

As for not going out the door... what if it had played out differently and some nutbar was killing a hitchhiking teen girl out there? You'd be hating yourself for not going out the door.

 

[mesinge2]

what if it had played out differently and some nutbar was killing a hitchhiking teen girl out there? You'd be hating yourself for not going out the door.

I don't think you made a single mistake, especially considering KodiakBeer's post. Scary story.
I feel for the guy, my grandfather is going through this now and often can't remember who I am.
The family not wanting to come and get him is unforgivable.

 

[greywolf444]

rusty-When he lowered his hands I stepped up quickly and knocked the knife out of his hands. It was a bowie blade blank(12") with a hunting blade blank (7-8")held on top of it. He was holding it horizitally ,one on top of the other, with his thumbs.

I am glad that I looked out the window first, when he turned toward me in an isosceles position and something shiny it did resemble a gun, at least I already knew what it was. It would have been too easy to drop him at that point.

Thanks guys, I was pretty calm during and kinda shaky after. I still look for him when I go out at night to the barn or to see my dogs. It's something I'll carry with me for long time.

 

[greywolf444]

As an aside---my son saw zombies in the yard serveral times. teenager who stays up late watching monster movies, yeah right. he always swore that they would shuffle past the kitchen window, neighbors had a peeper who would go off into the cornfield, and I would find my shop door locked from the inside sometimes. I think this guy has been wandering around the area for years and finally got caught. He lived about 5 miles from here cross country. my sons and the neighbor's description match him. He sort of did move like a zombie. not that jerky but slower and hunched up. turns out he was 70 and the family has moved him somewhere else.

 

[navyretired 1]

Partner you did good. It's a sad state of affairs when a man raises his children educates,feeds, clothes and teaches them about life for them to consider him a burden when he can no longer take care of himself, Shameful. Thank you Graywolf444 your a truely brave man.

 

[mesinge2]

It's a sad state of affairs when a man raises his children educates,feeds, clothes and teaches them about life for them to consider him a burden when he can no longer take care of himself, Shameful.

My sentiments exactly

 

[easyg]

As much as I hate to "monday morning quarterback", you did post this here, and so I guess you want some feedback.

First of all, I'm glad that nobody got killed or injured.
But I have to take issue with a few things....

You really never should have unlocked your door or walked out on the porch.
It could have been a trick to get you out on the porch so that a second person (or more) could attack you.
Not to mention that you were safer inside your home.

Once you had determined that it was not someone you know, you should have called the cops.
I'm not one for calling the cops at every little noise, but you clearly new that it was a person beating on your door, and not someone you knew to need your help.
You never know how a situation might turn out, so it would be reassuring that the police might be on the way, even it they arrived hours later.
And you can't disregard the legal aspect of the encounter....
By calling the cops, there is a record that you wanted police intervention.
So of you did end up shooting someone, it would look much better in court for you with evidence that you called the cops.

As much as love my 1911 the trigger much too light. I would have shot
him as he approached without even trying. the heavier pull on the revolver saved his life. and I can live with that.

If you're not going to shoot, or if you might or might not shoot, then just keep your finger off the trigger.
If you're definitely going to shoot, put your finger on the trigger and shoot.

it took entirely too long to load the revolver even with the speed loader
(is always loaded now)

Good.
Unless you have small children about, keep your handgun loaded.

probably shouldn't have gone out,but, its my property and I thought it
was just some drunks to run off. ( It's never what you think it is.)

It could have been some drunks with guns....

We all try to plan for various scenarios ,but, who plans for something like this? where they don't respond and don't retreat. (expect the unexpected)

I think that you did plan for this....but you failed to follow your plan.
For whatever reason, you hesitated and didn't follow your own plan.
And....
YOU LET A MAN WITH A KNIFE GET WITHIN SIX FEET OF YOU!

Have better lighting and a good flashlight.

It never hurts.

I thankful that I didn't shoot him knowing how it turned out but in the heat of the moment I could have and would have felt justified in doing so.

I don't know what state you live in, but in some states you are required by law to retreat if possible.


Again, I'm glad that nobody got killed or hurt.

My advice next time (if there is a next time):
Stay inside.
Call the cops.
If they break the door down, then only you can decide whether to shoot or not.

 

[blitzen]

I think that you did good.
Don't get to down on the 1911 trigger.
Remember: on the target = on the trigger
off the target = off the trigger
being on the trigger don't mean your going to pull it. Only that you can.
Maybe we should dare mix it up and say on the target = still off the trigger
I carry and train with a BHP so I feel what you are saying.
I have that extra step in the progression. Know what I mean?

 

[KodiakBeer]

You really never should have unlocked your door or walked out on the porch.

So, if it had turned out some hideous crime was taking place in his own yard and some innocent was being butchered or lying in the shadows bleeding to death, you'd advise him not get involved - to call the police so they could show up later and fill out the appropriate forms?

I'm not advising everybody be John Wayne and run into every scenario, but If I've got some screaming man waving knives around in my own yard, I'm going to deal with it. I may dial 911 before walking out that door, but I am walking out that door.

 

[Old Shooter]

It was better he met you than me.

A stranger with a knife approaching me, within 6 feet, at night in my back yard and screaming going on?

I fear I would have shot and felt justified, only later when the full story came to light would I have had serious regrets.

Where in HELL were the rest of his family who would't even come to get him?

They are the ones to be shot, In my opiinion.

But, then again, some people say I'm lacking in social skills.

 

[3:00hold]

So, if it had turned out some hideous crime was taking place in his own yard and some innocent was being butchered or lying in the shadows bleeding to death, you'd advise him not get involved - to call the police so they could show up later and fill out the appropriate forms?

I'm not advising everybody be John Wayne and run into every scenario, but If I've got some screaming man waving knives around in my own yard, I'm going to deal with it. I may dial 911 before walking out that door, but I am walking out that door.

It depends on what you're trying to do. If your first priority is to protect your family, then you shouldn't go outside. That's why we have police.

Clearly it worked out and it appears he did help the guy, but in my opinion, the risk wasn't worth it. What if he had been disabled or killed? Then who protects the family when the attacker walks over your body into the house?

 

[mljdeckard]

I have to agree with easyg. You don't adjust trigger weight to prevent unintended discharge. You keep your finger off of the trigger until you are ready to shoot. And yes, this raises the possibility that I might have shot when you didn't. It all depends on the totality of the circumstances. In this case something told you not to shoot, you followed your gut and you were right.

Whomever is responsible for keeping this guy out of trouble should be investigated for neglect.

 

[ambidextrous1]

A cool head and a good job, Greywolf! I hope I'll do as well if/when faced with a similar situation.

 

[easyg]

So, if it had turned out some hideous crime was taking place in his own yard...

Re-read the original post....

"I could hear and see that someone was banging on the front door. I could see it moving with each blow. I looked out the window and saw a man on the porch holding a long knife, he turned and walked down the walk to the driveway."

It was evident that nobody was screaming for help.
And he could see nobody on the porch except the man with the knife.

Hearing and seeing only the man with the knife, would you have unlocked your door and walked outside?

 

[Old Shooter]

Clearly it worked out and it appears he did help the guy, but in my opinion, the risk wasn't worth it. What if he had been disabled or killed? Then who protects the family when the attacker walks over your body into the house?

One pissed off wife with a .357!

I see your point, but in some areas the police are not minutes away while you are being assaulted but can be miles away and a long time coming to your aid, In that case a neighbor who is able to help...shoud do what?

All circumstances can not be covered by a blanket set of guidelines. Yes, first comes protection of you and yours, It becomes more of a grey area when neighbors or even strangers are involved.

Mayby a 911 call would be sufficient, I don't know that I would wait for their response, I hope I never have to find out in the real world.

OP, you did good.

 

[conw]

CWL wrote:

Whatever "armchair quarterbacking" we offer, you handled it right because everyone lived, the son got him and you don't have to deal with any guilt.

I don't agree with this perspective. You can do everything wrong (not that the OP did) and circumstances go your way because the universe is rather random, at least when you are as small and insignificant as a human being. Or you can do everything right and still die because of bad luck or whatever you want to call it.

If you think a positive outcome is a sign that someone "handled it right" in every aspect, do you agree that a negative outcome means someone did everything - or anything at all - wrong? Of course not. That is because sometimes a situation is partly or completely out of our hands. We should still strive for perfection in matters of life and death, and we can learn from others' mistakes even when their mistakes were not fatal. To say "Don't nitpick if it turns out ok" is to pretend that this situation was entirely in the hands of the OP...clearly it wasn't. Clearly he got lucky.

Sorry to pick on you CWL. I realize what you are getting at. But this perspective of "Let's not dissect this because it turned out OK" appears very unproductive to me. The purpose of this forum is to dissect every situation and use logical approaches, not just to say "Glad you made it through, that's that."