intruder with a knife-nearly shot him

[greywolf444]

I went outside because I heard what sounded like several people fighting in the yard and the one I saw had a knife. It seemed likely that someone needed help. I tried to retreat as he approached but the door was closed behind me and was locked. I have since replaced the Schlage locks. With those you can exit and leave the door locked. So I was backed into a corner on the porch and he stopped just before the porch begins. That was as close as I was letting him get.

During the entire encounter I had a feeling that something wasn't right. From the odd way he was holding the knife and the shuffling walk, it was obvious that he wasn't right. Could have gotten me killed thinking about it but I really didn't want to shoot someone if not required.
I know that I could have given commands to stop,drop,prone him out. It would have had no effect and he would be shot at that end of the walk. Sometimes you have to go with what feels right at the time. Had he been slashing and jabbing as he approached it may have ended differently. Try holding a knife the way he was and walk around a little and see for yourself how odd that looks.

I posted this so I can get some feedback on how it happened. All good and valid points, no offense taken, I did make several errors and will hopefully learn from this and the discussion we have had. Thanks for weighing in
.

something else the think about---have a holster to slip on handy, I needed both hands free at times. You would not believe how heavy that revolver got
while waiting for his family to get there.

 

[AK Eggy]

Great example

Not that my opinion matters, and I'm sure I'll get some bashing for it, but I think in this instance Greywolf444 is an epitome of a real man. He recognized a person with a need and did what he could to assist that person and did so at personal risk. Something else worth realizing is that he dealt with
HIS problem and didn't rely on someone else to deal with it for him. And yes...HE had a problem...this man was in his front yard.

To lay in wait behind your front door, gun at the ready waiting for the police to show could be considered to be acting cowardly and expectant of others to deal with your problems for you. Is a man with a knife at 6 feet a threat to you when you have a loaded gun leveled? I say no....a concern definetly, but at that point not a threat.

The all too popular mindset (behind the keyboard anyway) of blasting people away because they pose a "threat" to you" is a product of our "me" populace and is wrong. As a "real man" in society, you must strive to do what's right and offer help when you can...even at personal risk. That's what we as responsible gun owners and "men" should strive for anyway. Keep in mind when I reference men, I'm referring to people strong in conviction with moral integrity that can and do stand strong in the presence of conflict, not people of the male gender.

Anyway...enough of the soapbox. My unsolicited opinion is Greywolf444 exhibited the traits of a real man by the way he demonstrated the ability to realize the needs of another person even in the presence of his own crisis and helped the other person accordingly. Sure, he protected himself sufficiently as anyone should do, but instead of blasting a person carrying a knife 6 feet away, he helped a person in need. Kudos to him and if more people would strive for that level of compotency, our country would be a much different place than it is today.

BTW...I don't for a minute think that if it were me in his shoes that I wouldn't have been sh****ng bricks the whole time, so don't think I'm a tough guy by any means.

 

[kingpin008]

I think in this instance Greywolf444 is an epitome of a real man.

I'd rather be a living yellow-belly coward able to protect his family than a dead hero.

But for the record, there's nothing "cowardly" about standing behind a locked door and monitoring the situation. If anything, waiting behind a door for the bad guy to come to you is strategically more intelligent than waltzing into an unknown situation with an unknown number of attackers.

You see, "Real Men" should be possessed of more than simple brute strength and bravado in order to effectively navigate the world they live in. They must also be smart, able to analyze a situation, and capable of choosing the right method to deal with it. In this situation, what GreyWolf did worked, but that doesn't mean that it was the best choice. That's all any of us can hope for.

 

[KodiakBeer]

LemmyCaution: I can't help noticing the polarization of the responses here. The two camps fall to 'be alert, use your judgement in the moment, and have compassion for your fellow man' and 'Kitty Genovese's neighbors.'

Thanks for bringing up Kitty Genovese. The same incident occurred to me reading several of these posts, but for the life of me I couldn't recall her name. I hope if I'm ever in trouble, I have a neighbor who'll help, not one who draws his blinds and doesn't want to "get involved".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

 

[Tacbandit]

Quote:
"I hope if I'm ever in trouble, I have a neighbor who'll help, not one who draws his blinds and doesn't want to "get involved".

+1 Kodiak ..... me too...!!!
Tac

 

[Nutgun]

Had Grey killed the man, given his mental illness (state,) the weapon and non compliance to stop, lack of police response time, his size, time of day, the killing would have probably been justified.

Had the man succeeded in dropping you, your family would have been at his mercy. I'm not sure I could or would take that chance.

People like that should not be walking around unattended. It's the family's responsibility. He needs a guardian.

No different than the family that allows 90 year olds to drive, so they don't have to be bothered hauling them around.

They put everyone in jeapardy.

 

[Manco]

Not that my opinion matters, and I'm sure I'll get some bashing for it, but I think in this instance Greywolf444 is an epitome of a real man. He recognized a person with a need and did what he could to assist that person and did so at personal risk. Something else worth realizing is that he dealt with
HIS problem and didn't rely on someone else to deal with it for him. And yes...HE had a problem...this man was in his front yard.

To lay in wait behind your front door, gun at the ready waiting for the police to show could be considered to be acting cowardly and expectant of others to deal with your problems for you.

Oh, so we're cowards for trying to find a way to avoid escalating the situation into violence, are we? Real men use their wits before their weapons, unlike macho fools. If there is an armed, irate person outside my front door for some reason, who won't listen to reason, what do you think is going to happen if I rush to confront him unnecessarily? If he's willing to stick around for a while blowing off steam, then I'll let him while the police are on their way. They have cars with flashing lights, uniforms, badges, and the legal authority to arrest, and therefore stand a better chance of ending the incident without bloodshed. Maybe the guy is angry at me for some reason, even if it's imaginary, but will allow LEOs to talk him into giving up.

Is a man with a knife at 6 feet a threat to you when you have a loaded gun leveled? I say no....a concern definetly, but at that point not a threat.

I've beaten assailants senseless with my bare hands, held off a knife-armed assailant while protecting a stranger in need, and would have no difficulty, mental or physical, in putting down an assailant permanently with a gun if I had to, but even I would not dare underestimate the harm that could be inflicted on me by a knife-wielding maniac just six feet away--certainly not when I'm armed with only a pistol. To feel otherwise is foolhardy, in my opinion. I'd rather be smart and alive than drowning in my own bravado or blood.

The all too popular mindset (behind the keyboard anyway) of blasting people away because they pose a "threat" to you" is a product of our "me" populace and is wrong.

So a guy who wields a knife and threatens to do me harm is not thinking of himself but has my best interests at heart, and I should reciprocate his goodwill? Please. I won't kill if I don't have to, but I'm not the one who asked for trouble, and I never do. And I'm not going to allow a malicious person, whether it's because of a mental condition or not, to take my life when I could have rightfully taken theirs first. Once somebody crosses that boundary with me, where I'm placed in mortal danger against my will, then their life is forfeit. That's why I try to avoid confrontations whenever possible, as I can't always tell whether a guy "deserves" to be harmed. If somebody else could possibly better handle the situation, especially if they're paid to do so with my tax dollars, then let them do their jobs. And if I'm left with no option but to take care of matters myself as a civilian, then I'll do whatever I have to with no hesitation or regret.

As a "real man" in society, you must strive to do what's right and offer help when you can...even at personal risk. That's what we as responsible gun owners and "men" should strive for anyway.

Well, if I saw a crazy dude with a knife run to my neighbor's house, I'd alert them (I always have my cell phone handy) while going after him, armed with my gun but keeping at some distance if possible (that's what ranged weapons are for). My neighbors aren't so self-sufficient, so I may have to defend them if the police don't arrive in time. In general, I'll do and not do whatever I have to in order to avoid spilling blood first, and if that proves to be impossible, then I'll spill as much of the aggressor's blood as quickly as I can.

Keep in mind when I reference men, I'm referring to people strong in conviction with moral integrity that can and do stand strong in the presence of conflict, not people of the male gender.

Well, since I'm a coward in your eyes, then I guess I don't have those qualities, huh? Would you care to step out from behind your keyboard and tell me that to my face? Then I'll let you know what I really think of your words...nah, just foolin'--I'd walk away because hot air is never worth fighting over. And that's all a guy standing safely outside my house is, too--a bunch of hot air. On the other hand, if he forces his way inside, then he's dead and I'm morally in the clear. Is that enough conviction for you, or am I still a coward for waiting for the police whenever it makes the most sense to?

Anyway...enough of the soapbox. My unsolicited opinion is Greywolf444 exhibited the traits of a real man by the way he demonstrated the ability to realize the needs of another person even in the presence of his own crisis and helped the other person accordingly. Sure, he protected himself sufficiently as anyone should do, but instead of blasting a person carrying a knife 6 feet away, he helped a person in need. Kudos to him and if more people would strive for that level of compotency, our country would be a much different place than it is today.

Be still my bleeding heart. The guy's crazy--might not be his fault in every case, but he's still dangerous--and I have to protect myself and my family first.

BTW...I don't for a minute think that if it were me in his shoes that I wouldn't have been sh****ng bricks the whole time, so don't think I'm a tough guy by any means.

You talk a big game for somebody who knows they'd have such nerves. Sure, I've felt fear when confronted with violence in the past, but it's never interfered with being able to use my head first. Don't mistake the sensible self-restraint of some for cowardice.

 

[easyg]

To lay in wait behind your front door, gun at the ready waiting for the police to show could be considered to be acting cowardly and expectant of others to deal with your problems for you.

I don't anyone who would consider this to be cowardly.
But I know plenty who would consider this to be the smart thing to do.

Is a man with a knife at 6 feet a threat to you when you have a loaded gun leveled? I say no....a concern definetly, but at that point not a threat.

You are 100% wrong.
At 6 feet away, any man with a knife is a very deadly threat whether you have a gun or not.
Most folks who are shot do NOT stop immediately like they do in the movies.

The all too popular mindset (behind the keyboard anyway) of blasting people away because they pose a "threat" to you" is a product of our "me" populace and is wrong.

Please elaborate...I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say.

As a "real man" in society, you must strive to do what's right and offer help when you can...even at personal risk.

Who determines what's "right".
Nobody was screaming for help.
Greywolf didn't know the guy had Alzheimer's.
He didn't go out to help some innocent victim.
Why the rush to go outside?
Give me a good reason to not wait for the cops in this scenario.

Anyway...enough of the soapbox. My unsolicited opinion is Greywolf444 exhibited the traits of a real man by the way he demonstrated the ability to realize the needs of another person even in the presence of his own crisis and helped the other person accordingly.

He said that he went out because he though that drunks were out there or that he though two guys were fighting.
He never said he went out to help anyone.
I think you must have been reading another thread.

Sure, he protected himself sufficiently as anyone should do, but instead of blasting a person carrying a knife 6 feet away, he helped a person in need. Kudos to him and if more people would strive for that level of compotency, our country would be a much different place than it is today.

If more folks use his "tactics" and let a person armed with a knife that close to them this country really would be a different place....one with a lot less law abiding gun owners.

 

[Nutgun]

What if there were 2 guys outside and the one was using the I'm nuts ploy to let the other overpower Grey from behind?

The guy with the knife acting crazy is getting all the attention. The disrtaction is working excellently. They get the jump on him and the family is next.

He showed great restraint in not shooting. Since it all worked out OK the story has a happy ending. What if Greys widow or other next of kin were writing the story about Grey's murdered family?

I'm not opening the door unless the cops have already been called and I know I have everyone in sight and outgunned. Even that doesn't guarantee a good outcome.

 

[AK Eggy]

Oh, so we're cowards for trying to find a way to avoid escalating the situation into violence, are we? Real men use their wits before their weapons, unlike macho fools. If there is an armed, irate person outside my front door for some reason, who won't listen to reason, what do you think is going to happen if I rush to confront him unnecessarily? If he's willing to stick around for a while blowing off steam, then I'll let him while the police are on their way. They have cars with flashing lights, uniforms, badges, and the legal authority to arrest, and therefore stand a better chance of ending the incident without bloodshed. Maybe the guy is angry at me for some reason, even if it's imaginary, but will allow LEOs to talk him into giving up.

He did not try to escalate to violence, he only asked what the "offender" wanted. He investigated a situation on his property. He was not acting like a macho fool and I didn't infer he was. Further, he didn't "rush" him, he went onto the porch once the "offender" had left the porch and was in the driveway. As was mentioned earlier...what if you were waiting for the police, from the safety of your home, and something happened to the "offender" or someone elsse because you didn't deal with the situation proactively? Would you be able to rest easy knowing you could have done something to help, but didn't?

I've beaten assailants senseless with my bare hands, held off a knife-armed assailant while protecting a stranger in need, and would have no difficulty, mental or physical, in putting down an assailant permanently with a gun if I had to, but even I would not dare underestimate the harm that could be inflicted on me by a knife-wielding maniac just six feet away--certainly not when I'm armed with only a pistol. To feel otherwise is foolhardy, in my opinion. I'd rather be smart and alive than drowning in my own bravado or blood.

Don't forget, he STOPPED 6 feet away and said he had Alzheimers...HE STOPPED HIS ADVANCE and alerted the OP to his condition.

So a guy who wields a knife and threatens to do me harm is not thinking of himself but has my best interests at heart, and I should reciprocate his goodwill? Please. I won't kill if I don't have to, but I'm not the one who asked for trouble, and I never do. And I'm not going to allow a malicious person, whether it's because of a mental condition or not, to take my life when I could have rightfully taken theirs first. Once somebody crosses that boundary with me, where I'm placed in mortal danger against my will, then their life is forfeit. That's why I try to avoid confrontations whenever possible, as I can't always tell whether a guy "deserves" to be harmed. If somebody else could possibly better handle the situation, especially if they're paid to do so with my tax dollars, then let them do their jobs. And if I'm left with no option but to take care of matters myself as a civilian, then I'll do whatever I have to with no hesitation or regret.

He was carrying a knife with both arms held outright...not slashing or stabbing and he stopped short. Doesn't sound like an assailant to me. He was beating on the door at 5 am and yelling. Have you ever experienced someone in desperate need that was panicked? This is exactly the behavior they exhibit. When they are in fear for their life, they don't reason through their actions and do things that others (maybe sometimes rightfully so) interpret as aggressive when they are only desperately seeking help. Keep in mind that there is nothing that says the police HAVE to do anyhting, so for us as a population to rely soley on them to deal with a crisis is foolhardy. We have to be responsible for ourselves and to a point, our neighbors.

Well, if I saw a crazy dude with a knife run to my neighbor's house, I'd alert them (I always have my cell phone handy) while going after him, armed with my gun but keeping at some distance if possible (that's what ranged weapons are for). My neighbors aren't so self-sufficient, so I may have to defend them if the police don't arrive in time. In general, I'll do and not do whatever I have to in order to avoid spilling blood first, and if that proves to be impossible, then I'll spill as much of the aggressor's blood as quickly as I can.

Good for you. Your neighbors should be proud to have you so willing and so close and should strive to do the same for you and themselves.

Well, since I'm a coward in your eyes, then I guess I don't have those qualities, huh? Would you care to step out from behind your keyboard and tell me that to my face? Then I'll let you know what I really think of your words...nah, just foolin'--I'd walk away because hot air is never worth fighting over. And that's all a guy standing safely outside my house is, too--a bunch of hot air. On the other hand, if he forces his way inside, then he's dead and I'm morally in the clear. Is that enough conviction for you, or am I still a coward for waiting for the police whenever it makes the most sense to?

There's a difference between being a coward and exhibiting coward-like behavior. By your own admition, you would put yourself in jeopardy by tracking an intruder in order to render assistance to your neighbor. Not a coward in my book. I do stand by my belief however that we as a population rely way too much on other people (the police in this instance) to straighten things out for us and that creates a society of inaction and passivness and it is and will continue to degrade our standard of living in this country. Think of the damage somone could do while everyone was waiting for the police to show up.

I'd be happy to meet you face-to-face and discuss this and other issues more. It sounds like your convicted in your beliefs and I know I am in mine, so it would most likely be a good discussion. Debate, even if heated is healthy to all parties involved. Heck, if nothing else, all the hot air'll keep our coffee warm!

Be still my bleeding heart. The guy's crazy--might not be his fault in every case, but he's still dangerous--and I have to protect myself and my family first.

He didn't threaten the OP or his family....scared the crap out of them for sure, but didn't threaten them.

You talk a big game for somebody who knows they'd have such nerves. Sure, I've felt fear when confronted with violence in the past, but it's never interfered with being able to use my head first. Don't mistake the sensible self-restraint of some for cowardice

Self restraint and failure to get involved (cowardice) are two different things. Someone beating on your door at 5 am is not ALWAYS someone breaking in as was proven by this thread. People do have problems, they get the crap scared out of them and they do things that don't make sense. Because of our environment, we as a society tend to treat every situation like this as a tactical situation or a defense of life and property case and in my experience (thankfully) most are not. By treating everything as the extreme, alot of people that need help don't get it.....even if it's just that their car is on fire and they're trying to get some help (as was one of my situations) and yeah, I was scared to death when first approached and until I realized what was going on, but I didn't retreat and call the police, I read the situation and reacted.

In any event, I'm glad there's fire in your belly and I hope all the armchair quarterbacking hasn't detracted from the OP's experience. He reacted well to a tough situation in my book.

 

[AK Eggy]

I don't anyone who would consider this to be cowardly.
But I know plenty who would consider this to be the smart thing to do.

I guess my opinion is different than most others. Of course it's easy to say now, but this situation could have been (and was) dealt with without involving the police. The OP had a problem on his property and he dealt with it on his own.

You are 100% wrong.
At 6 feet away, any man with a knife is a very deadly threat whether you have a gun or not.
Most folks who are shot do NOT stop immediately like they do in the movies.

Obviously not 100% wrong...this one worked out OK. Seriously a good sized revolver leveled on an assailant with a knife at 6 feet...I'll take that bet. Just as the guy with the knife won't always fall over dead instantly, the guy with the gun doesn't stop moving after pulling the trigger once either.

Please elaborate...I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say.

Everything in this world does not revolve around you (or myself). These types of threads generally turn into a "hey....I have rights" mentality. Obviously you and I do, but these right are not omnipotent...we also have a duty to rectify wrong. As was demonstrated here; although the OP was inconvenienced for sure, the "offender" deserved assistance in the end (my opinion).

Quote:
As a "real man" in society, you must strive to do what's right and offer help when you can...even at personal risk.

Who determines what's "right".
Nobody was screaming for help.
Greywolf didn't know the guy had Alzheimer's.
He didn't go out to help some innocent victim.
Why the rush to go outside?
Give me a good reason to not wait for the cops in this scenario.


Quote:
Anyway...enough of the soapbox. My unsolicited opinion is Greywolf444 exhibited the traits of a real man by the way he demonstrated the ability to realize the needs of another person even in the presence of his own crisis and helped the other person accordingly.

He said that he went out because he though that drunks were out there or that he though two guys were fighting.
He never said he went out to help anyone.
I think you must have been reading another thread.


Quote:
Sure, he protected himself sufficiently as anyone should do, but instead of blasting a person carrying a knife 6 feet away, he helped a person in need. Kudos to him and if more people would strive for that level of compotency, our country would be a much different place than it is today.

What's right is for you to decide. What's right may only be right at that one particular instant and that's when you need to decide. It's not always black and white. The OP obviously sensed somehting was wrong (aside from the obvious thrashing on the door) and investigated. Yes he armed himself to provide protection and good for him for doing so, but he inquired as to what the "offender" needed. What I am applauding is that even though he was in an extremly intense situation that looks as though he may had been in real jepoardy for a moment, he was able to recognize the need of another person. This happened at the height of the "conflict". He then rendered assistance and by doing so helped another person out. If the OP acted as is the popular stance here and stayed inside his house, the "assailant" would most likely have been long gone before the police showed up and who knows what would have happened to him. The OP's decision to take a chance and put himself at risk to engage the other party paid off in my book.

If more folks use his "tactics" and let a person armed with a knife that close to them this country really would be a different place....one with a lot less law abiding gun owners.

Because most people avoid conflict at all cost and avoid getting involved if it inconveiniences them in the least, the "New York mentality" is spreading whereby we think nothing of taking pictures of people literally dying in automobile accidents or are lying dying in the street from wounds suffered during an attack by another instead of rendering aid. THAT is a sad thing.

 

[3:00hold]

I think a lot of the posters here are arguing a point that was not part of the original situation. The OP did not go outside to help a neighbor, he went outside to confront a threat. My assertion is that it is not a good idea to go outside to confront threats because, among other reasons, you are neglecting your primary duty which is to protect your family. You can do a better job protecting your family by remaining inside the house.

It seems that this has devolved into whether or not real men help their neighbors in time of need. Real men figure out what they're trying to do and do it. If you're outside dead, you'd better hope that the Mrs. can defend herself as well as you could have, because that's the situation YOU have created.

I can't site the source, but I read about a story (maybe on here) where a guy confronted a burglar with a bat. The burglar shot and kileld the guy, then raped his wife and burned down the house. Not the same situtation, but it does illustrate that you need to remain alive and effective.

 

[Fred Fuller]

grey,

Now that we're on Page 4 and you've had a chance to think about this situation some in the light of the discussion here- what if anything would you do differently at this point? What if anything would you do the same?

Thanks,

lpl

 

[KodiakBeer]

Nutgun: What if there were 2 guys outside and the one was using the I'm nuts ploy to let the other overpower Grey from behind?

Don't you think a better ploy would be: "Help! There's been a car wreck. We've already called the police. My wife is bleeding. Have got a clean towel for a bandage?" Instead of screaming in your yard while brandishing a knife?

 

[kingpin008]

What does better or worse have to do with anything? The man's behavior was still effective in getting the OP to come outside.

 

[LemmyCaution]

What does better or worse have to do with anything? The man's behavior was still effective in getting the OP to come outside.

You walked right into that one.

Assume you're in KBeer's hypothetical situation. I'm guessing you're still strutting manfully in your house, putting you and yours first behind a locked door, while someone else is potentially bleeding out. You've said all you need to about the quality of your character with your response above.

 

[Cosmoline]

Basing tactical choices on "being a real man" or "being a coward" will get you killed.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Cosmoline: Basing tactical choices on "being a real man" or "being a coward" will get you killed.

Did you read my earlier anecdote about the neighbor chasing a grizzly out of the neighborhood, instead of "tactically" staying inside and calling the troopers to show up in an hour or so?

All in all, I'd rather have neighbors who look out for each other instead of being "tactical". Yeah, she took a risk, but nobody's dog or horse or child was killed. This petite 40ish gal chased a Kodiak grizzly with shotgun flares for about 1/4 mile until it was out of the housing area, and that makes her a "real woman" and a good neighbor. Her 14ish year old son went along with her, loaded with 12 gauge slugs to back her up, and that makes him a "real man".

I'll forgive their lack of tacticality.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Basing tactical choices on "being a real man" or "being a coward" will get you killed.

Possibly.

But that's only one way of looking at the situation, and an extraordinarily simple one.

Basing moral choices solely on tactical considerations will lead to the impoverishment of your and your community's social character.

I've not said that tactical considerations are unimportant. The OP has been given several suggestions that would have improved his defensive posture, while still allowing him to be an involved member of his community, which in this case very possibly saved the life of a man suffering from a spell of dementia.

If tactical concerns were paramount, all technological research would be geared toward delivering our consumer desires to fortified safe rooms where we'd live risk free from each other.

Anyway, risk taking is part of being a member of the human race. It's a basic part of compassion. Fear of taking the risk of compassion is the cowardice that is being spoken of here, not physical cowardice.

 

[ghoster]

I think you did a fine job grey. I grew up on a farm and our lively hood was outside so if there was a problem we went out to take care of it. My property is just that and if the bogie man thinks they can suprise an ole farm boy let em try. Personaly I would keep your gun loaded. I would go out the side door in the dark to acess what is going on before he/they have any idea I'm even there. much easier to keep the advantage that way as you are familuar with the area and then approach from the dark/tactical direction. Fourtunately we only had fuel theifs and it was rather amusing to see them suddenly relize they were looking at a gun sheriff would send somone to haul them off. I dont know but will sumise I probably would have shot the poor guy when he came toward me with the knife. middle of the night, on my property, comming at me with a knife is a threat, nuts or not. Seeing and killing imaginary people is not a clasic symptom of alltimers, definately a mental problem though. I just don't know if I would delay long enough for multipule warnings -- not macho stuff, just the oppisite. I was always frightened but doing what had to be done, I always had the mindset that if they didnt comply and came in my direction I would shoot.

 

[easyg]

Just curious....

Suppose the old man had a pistol instead of a knife....who still thinks going out to confront him is the smart thing to do?

 

[Nutgun]

A few months ago I just crawled into bed at about 3:30 the girlfriend was already sleeping. The dog starts growling and doing the little alert bark. Next there is someone pounding on the cellar door. The light is on outside but I can't see who it is.

First thing I did was grab my loaded 45.

I yelled "who is it?" It's a girl telling me she has a flat tire. Can I help her? No, sorry.

The girlfriend is awake now and I tell her to call 911.

She yells up you're not gonna help me? I said no.

Now I watch her as she visits the other near by houses with porch lights on. I can hear her talking to ???? someone maybe two who knows how many other people. But I can only see her.

All the neighbors declined helping her too and they all have big dogs. You can't directly call the police anymore everything goes through the 911 call center. The response time is lower now.

With her talking to as of yet any number of unseen people I'm thinking this is a setup and they are waiting for someone to come help her.

Even with the 45 I wasn't going outside without seeing how many there are with her or where they might be. I watched her walk down the street. After about 15 minutes I went out to investigate. I went out the back door in total darkness with my 45 ready. Her car was parked in front of my truck which I could see from the bedroom window but I couldn't see the tires because of the embankment and a tree.

She came back with someone to change her tire. Appearantly there was nobody else with her before, she was just talking to herself. At the time there was no way of knowing that.

Before she got there the cops did a driveby. They failed to notice her car or the flat tire and they never stopped. They never saw her either.

The 911 dispatcher asked my girlfriend why we didn't help her. Like we were jerks for not helping.

I talked to the neighbor across the street the next day. They also thought it was a setup.

I feel a little bad about her luck but I don't feel bad about not helping her.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Suppose the old man had a pistol instead of a knife....who still thinks going out to confront him is the smart thing to do?

Greywolf had already established it was a knife, not a pistol, before leaving his house. Your hypothetical is an irrelevant attempt to justify a losing argument.

I doubt anyone here would have left the house, had the old man been wielding a sidearm. But he wasn't.

 

[LemmyCaution]

The 911 dispatcher asked my girlfriend why we didn't help her. Like we were jerks for not helping.

I talked to the neighbor across the street the next day. They also thought it was a setup.

I feel a little bad about her luck but I don't feel bad about not helping her.

I'm going to side with the 911 operator on this one. Your neighborhood sounds like one I'd prefer to avoid.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Glad everyone went home and it ended well. Sad that family does take better care of the gentleman.