intruder with a knife-nearly shot him
- Thread starter greywolf444
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KodiakBeer
member
That's not why we have police. We have Police to fill out the forms after a crime has taken place. The defense of your family is your responsibility.
KodiakBeer
member
One could just as easily assume that some victim was lying out there bleeding. He looked out the window and could see no ninja was pasted to the wall next to the front door waiting to ambush him. He also stated he was in a rural area so no cop was going to show up without a lengthy delay - not that police response is quick in many urban areas either.
I hope I would have confronted the guy just like the Greywolf did. I just hope I have the nerves to withhold fire and talk the guy down as he did. Mr. Greywolf is A-OK in my book, and has my respect.
I will also point out that unless you live in some bastion of liberalism like Mass or CA, we all have the right to make a citizens arrest - particularly when the crime in question is pounding on your front door.
cassandrasdaddy
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- 4,206
be glad to have you for a neighbor and glad it wasn't his time. great self control and great for me to consider a scenario that might not normally be thought of.
Old Shooter
Member
^ +1
I'm glad that everything worked out alright in the end for everybody involved, but if this had happened to me, then I would not have opened the door and gone outside (calling the police would have been a good idea if one has the time), and even if I had then I would not have let the guy get so close before either retreating or firing. So yes, in your place I would have shot him, but only because I had made several consecutive mistakes earlier, hypothetically speaking. On the bright side, you kept your cool and managed to defend yourself without killing anybody, tactical errors aside. Good job, and try to learn all you can from it. 
As for the trigger issue, at least the way I train, my finger only touches the trigger when I've made the decision to fire--done deal--otherwise it stays off the trigger at all times because I wouldn't want to trip on something, for example, and accidentally shoot somebody who didn't need to be shot. I fire from the "finger-safe" position all the time, so it doesn't spoil my aim in case I need to react quickly; I also practice firing strings of shots regularly so that returning my finger to the safe position on the frame is not habitual while engaged in combat.
As for whether I'd leave the house in order to stop a heinous crime from being committed against another person in my own yard, in principle I would, but I'd have to be sure that it is not a trick.
The safety of my family and myself comes first, but I will defend others if I can. Honestly, I'm not sure how I would know that it's not a trick. Based on such cases I've read about, I would view the incident critically for anything suspicious, and finding nothing unusual I might initially use myself as bait, pretending to totally fall for the potential trick, while being alert and ready to shoot, in an instant and multiple times, anybody who tries to rush me, and then I'll turn the gun on the first bad guy. If it's not all a trick, then the perpetrator will cease and desist on my command or else be shot, and if he has a gun then I'll shoot him first. Now I have to go look up state and local laws and case history regarding shooting somebody in defense of another in my yard but outside of my home to make sure that I didn't just say something foolish in a legal sense.
As for the trigger issue, at least the way I train, my finger only touches the trigger when I've made the decision to fire--done deal--otherwise it stays off the trigger at all times because I wouldn't want to trip on something, for example, and accidentally shoot somebody who didn't need to be shot.
I fire from the "finger-safe" position all the time, so it doesn't spoil my aim in case I need to react quickly; I also practice firing strings of shots regularly so that returning my finger to the safe position on the frame is not habitual while engaged in combat.As for whether I'd leave the house in order to stop a heinous crime from being committed against another person in my own yard, in principle I would, but I'd have to be sure that it is not a trick.
The safety of my family and myself comes first, but I will defend others if I can. Honestly, I'm not sure how I would know that it's not a trick. Based on such cases I've read about, I would view the incident critically for anything suspicious, and finding nothing unusual I might initially use myself as bait, pretending to totally fall for the potential trick, while being alert and ready to shoot, in an instant and multiple times, anybody who tries to rush me, and then I'll turn the gun on the first bad guy. If it's not all a trick, then the perpetrator will cease and desist on my command or else be shot, and if he has a gun then I'll shoot him first. Now I have to go look up state and local laws and case history regarding shooting somebody in defense of another in my yard but outside of my home to make sure that I didn't just say something foolish in a legal sense. 
easyg
Member
You know what they say about assumptions...
In any event, when making assumptions, I would rather "assume" on the side of my family's safety.
You mean you actually hope that you would let a mentally ill person, who is armed with a knife, get within six feet of you?!?!
He didn't really "talk him down" did he?
Maybe I missed something?
I would say that your respect is easily won then.
I'm not bashing Greywolf, but I do think that he made a few errors and that things could have gone much worse.
You seriously need to check your state laws.
You might not have the "right" to make a "citizen's arrest" that you think you do.
And last time I checked, it was not against the law to "pound" on someone's door at 5:00 in the morning.
sonier
Member
no one got hurt and you helped someone as well couldnt have gone better you did great
I think you did pretty much the right thing and handled yourself well. I'd want to ask what's he's up to; the guy probably would have got into the next house and cut someone if you'd staying inside.
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KodiakBeer
member
Me too. While you're cowering in fear in your closet, others might choose to confront an armed man pounding on their door and threatening the lives of our family.
And yes, Alaskans have the right to make a citizens arrest, just as in most states.
i think it would be up to the da in the area and it's kind of a gray area. the man was approaching the op with a knife, on the other hand if the op had not went outside the man would not have been able to approach him with said knife.
if the op had stayed inside or immediately went back in his house and stayed there when he saw the man had a knife and called the police he could have avoided any harm to himself and his family as long as the man was outside and wasn't attempting to force his way in.
as i said before,i'm glad everything worked out and i hope i'm never put in that kind of situation. i don't think i would have let the guy get that close to me with a knife and i would hate to find out that i had shot a man with alzheimer's who was confused and lost.
griz
Member
Overall I think you did great. You have already considered what was done right/wrong so I'll only address one issue. Once the family refused to help him, I would have called the Police just to make sure there is a record of the problem. Not to punish the guy for his actions, but to protect him from himself next time.
Again, good job and thanks for sharing the story.
Again, good job and thanks for sharing the story.
easyg
Member
Cowering in fear in my closet???
Did you bother to read anything that I typed?
Nowhere did I mention "cowering in fear in a closet".
As I stated before, the smart thing would have been to say inside, call the cops, and IF the guy broke down the door (or broke a window) and entered the house then it would be up to the owner whether to shoot or not.
Personally, any unwanted person who breaks down my door will probably get shot.
But I'm not going to unlock my door, walk outside into a situation that I know nothing about, and place myself at undue risk when it's not needed.
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You did an outstanding job. If it had been me I fear I wouldn't have had the restraint while being berated and approached with a bowie knife. His family should be ashamed. When his wife went to the hospital, his son should have stepped up to ensure his dad would take his meds.
For everyone saying CALL THE POLICE! in a rural area.
Where my parents live, at night, they have two cops that are in bed sleeping about 15 miles away.
For everyone saying CALL THE POLICE! in a rural area.
Where my parents live, at night, they have two cops that are in bed sleeping about 15 miles away.
robmkivseries70
Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 241
Excellent job OP, On the 1911 trigger, On target, finger in register position will help with the anxiety. 6 feet with a knife is 
cutting it close.
Best,
Rob
cutting it close.Best,
Rob
Gouranga
Member
Good job! Personally, I would have went out. With the way my house is laid out and lit, I would easily see someone hiding outside if it was a trap.
Couple other thoughts (just feedback safely given from a keyboard vs. the REAL DEAL you went through):
1. Because of my kids ( I have 4 in a 2,000 sq ft home), I would rather the encounter take place outside not inside my home. With the elevation outside my home (I am on the top of a hill), I would rapidly move my kids out of the likely line of fire. Should the bg kill me or get past me, the first and last thing he/she would see entering my door (which would be deadbolt locked behind me), would be a VERY angry wife (grieving her husband and protecting her kids) holding a shotgun.
2. I protect my family but I also live in a subdivision and my neighbors are friends. I have known their kids since they were born. I will not allow a psycho with a knife to leave my home and wander over to theirs. Their safety is important to me and I would not relegate it to chance.
3. I would dial 911 (my wife would actually) before acting. The cops would be here within 5-10 minutes and I would have a little help legally.
4. Given the same circumstances in front of my home, that man would be dead and I would be feeling bad killing someone that ill but from dealing with Alzheimers patients, I know how violent they can get. it is not their fault, it is the disease but that does not make you any less dead when they come after you and stab you. I am VERY glad you did not pull the trigger and this worked out good. I would not allow a knife wielding individual to get within 6 ft of me threatening with a knife.
Lastly, that family is dirt. I have dealt with folks with this disease, one of the things they do is wander, at all times of the night. You do NOT ever leave them alone to do that. He may have as easily wandered into the street or in front of a train or something. if they cannot give him 24/7 care then he needs a home nurse or a nursing home. For his own safety. Whether they realize it or not, he should have died that night. They should not rely on the discretion of a man trying to protect his family to keep the man alive.
Couple other thoughts (just feedback safely given from a keyboard vs. the REAL DEAL you went through):
1. Because of my kids ( I have 4 in a 2,000 sq ft home), I would rather the encounter take place outside not inside my home. With the elevation outside my home (I am on the top of a hill), I would rapidly move my kids out of the likely line of fire. Should the bg kill me or get past me, the first and last thing he/she would see entering my door (which would be deadbolt locked behind me), would be a VERY angry wife (grieving her husband and protecting her kids) holding a shotgun.
2. I protect my family but I also live in a subdivision and my neighbors are friends. I have known their kids since they were born. I will not allow a psycho with a knife to leave my home and wander over to theirs. Their safety is important to me and I would not relegate it to chance.
3. I would dial 911 (my wife would actually) before acting. The cops would be here within 5-10 minutes and I would have a little help legally.
4. Given the same circumstances in front of my home, that man would be dead and I would be feeling bad killing someone that ill but from dealing with Alzheimers patients, I know how violent they can get. it is not their fault, it is the disease but that does not make you any less dead when they come after you and stab you. I am VERY glad you did not pull the trigger and this worked out good. I would not allow a knife wielding individual to get within 6 ft of me threatening with a knife.
Lastly, that family is dirt. I have dealt with folks with this disease, one of the things they do is wander, at all times of the night. You do NOT ever leave them alone to do that. He may have as easily wandered into the street or in front of a train or something. if they cannot give him 24/7 care then he needs a home nurse or a nursing home. For his own safety. Whether they realize it or not, he should have died that night. They should not rely on the discretion of a man trying to protect his family to keep the man alive.
Tacbandit
Member
Tactically, strategically, and whatever.. you see that you may have done some things that were not necessarily "by the book"... it would not be my place however, to nit pick and find fault, as I've never faced that exact situation that you found yourself in. I will however, say that there is a reason for everything.. and as evidenced the the results, we can see that now. Good job...glad it turned out like it did. I hope he will get the help he needs...
rustysragsinc
Member
Great Job. No one was hurt and you helped someone out. Thanks for posting this great story.
SSN Vet
Member
IMO people need to be a little less enthusiastic about projecting their values and their particular circumstance onto another individuals affairs.
"Call the police" ....
1.) City critters need to get out more and discover that large swaths of this country do not have the 3 min. response times assumed by many. Back when my BIL was a brandy new state police acadamy grad covering his first patrol territory, I used to ride shotgun with him on his night shifts (before the novelty wore off). He was the ONLY law enforcement available in his patrol area, which was 75 MILES long. And if he was already handling a call, the next available guy was a lot farther. The OP stated that he's on a farm and police aren't readilly available, yet others still chastise him for not hunkering down with a telephone in his hand.
2.) Believe it or not, there are still people who's ethics do not lead them to conclude that they are entitled to abdicate responsibiltiy for what goes down inside their domain, and many rural states have laws that reflect that.
Your survival is priority #1...
1.) IMO it is unfortunate that so many folks in our society share a personal value that, to hell with my community, my safety and that of my immediate family is the highest priority. Expediency is the measuring stick for what is right and wrong. Yet they all applaud the hero who jumps on a hand grenade to save his fellow soldiers. Thank the Lord that some people still think that it's more important to do what is right than what is safe.
"Call the police" ....
1.) City critters need to get out more and discover that large swaths of this country do not have the 3 min. response times assumed by many. Back when my BIL was a brandy new state police acadamy grad covering his first patrol territory, I used to ride shotgun with him on his night shifts (before the novelty wore off). He was the ONLY law enforcement available in his patrol area, which was 75 MILES long. And if he was already handling a call, the next available guy was a lot farther. The OP stated that he's on a farm and police aren't readilly available, yet others still chastise him for not hunkering down with a telephone in his hand.
2.) Believe it or not, there are still people who's ethics do not lead them to conclude that they are entitled to abdicate responsibiltiy for what goes down inside their domain, and many rural states have laws that reflect that.
Your survival is priority #1...
1.) IMO it is unfortunate that so many folks in our society share a personal value that, to hell with my community, my safety and that of my immediate family is the highest priority. Expediency is the measuring stick for what is right and wrong. Yet they all applaud the hero who jumps on a hand grenade to save his fellow soldiers. Thank the Lord that some people still think that it's more important to do what is right than what is safe.
Cosmoline
Member
Bad self control. You needlessly risked your life by leaving the protection of the door and letting him get that close. The fact that he was cans short of a six pack doesn't make his knife any less deadly. Call 911, let the cops handle it if he stays on the porch or yard. If that means an hour wait, fine. He can stay out there. If he breaks through, shoot without hesitation. And I mean without hesitation.
When some nut is charging me with a knife, "community" is not really a factor.
When some nut is charging me with a knife, "community" is not really a factor.
Good job, greywolf444, for keeping a cool head in a tight spot. Folks not right in their head can be a real threat, but it is best if we can solve the problem with them still breathing.
A guy in my neighborhood has brain damage from a heart attack a few years back. He usually walks the neighborhood just fine, but one day he got confused and I sat him down and called his wife to pick him up.
Turns out he used to be the senior pastor at a nearby church when he had the heart attack. Had no heartbeat for a good while, were doing cpr & such. Finally pulled through. His last act as a pastor, after recovering as best he could, was officiating at the marriage of his grand daughter, who had always hoped to be married by her beloved granddad. He got through it by relying on his old notes and by practicing for a week. The Good Lord might have taken away some of his brain power, but He didn't take away his vocation.
A guy in my neighborhood has brain damage from a heart attack a few years back. He usually walks the neighborhood just fine, but one day he got confused and I sat him down and called his wife to pick him up.
Turns out he used to be the senior pastor at a nearby church when he had the heart attack. Had no heartbeat for a good while, were doing cpr & such. Finally pulled through. His last act as a pastor, after recovering as best he could, was officiating at the marriage of his grand daughter, who had always hoped to be married by her beloved granddad. He got through it by relying on his old notes and by practicing for a week. The Good Lord might have taken away some of his brain power, but He didn't take away his vocation.
In regards to calling the police I think a few folks have missed the point....it doesnt matter if they respond in time.....the first thing that the prosacuting attorney will ask is DID YOU CALL THE POLICE...if your answer is no....I think you gots some splaining to do Lucy
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