Is 380 Just A Marginal Round?
- Thread starter kokapelli
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Deaf Smith
Member
Well, actually you are right.
So is the .25 acp a 'marginal' round.
Where is the evidence it has failed?
Would you stand in the way of a .25 bullet?
See if there is an example of a person taking multiple .45s or .40s or 9mm that proves they are no better than a .25!
Heck, a Beretta 950 in .22 short just might be the answer!
Deaf
Deaf Smith
Member
Here's one that just happened yesterday where caliber didn't matter.
http://www.newson6.com/story/28557994/84-year-old-man-sends-tulsa-robber-running-in-fear
http://www.newson6.com/story/28557994/84-year-old-man-sends-tulsa-robber-running-in-fear
X-Rap
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Seems like there are two types of gun carriers that I least want to emulate, one is the guy who thinks his talisman will ward off evil just by waving it around, the second is the Samurai who thinks he must draw blood if it clears the holster. Both types paint themselves into dangerous corners.
hello Im new to this forum and Im trying to find some info on a very earlie glock 19 the glock forum says it was the first shipment of glocks into the country. serial number dn 101 I called glock in atlanta and they saID IT PROBALY WAS THE FIRST ONE SOLD TO THE PUBLIC IT HAS ALL THE BRONZE LOOKING INNERS AND BLACK FIRING PIN THE RIGHT BOX THIS THING IS NEW UNFIRED AND WAS PUT UP BY A GLOCK OWNER WHO WORKED AT GLOCK. I HAVE ALREADY CHECK ALL INFO AND IT ALL CHECKS OUT. WHAT WOULD SOMETHING LIKE THAT GO FOR I JUST WONDERING AND TRY TO FIND OUT FROM SOME ONE WHO REALLY KNOWS GLOCKS. EXCUSE THE TYPING
Deaf,
Yep on all that, heck no I wouldn't volunteer to be shot with a 25, but I wouldn't volunteer to get splashed in the face with warm cat pee doesn't mean a squirt gun filled wit cat pee is a good self defense weapon as a determined person would walk fight through the mist.
Also I rolled through your county early this AM on the way to the Bataan Memorial Death March
Yep on all that, heck no I wouldn't volunteer to be shot with a 25, but I wouldn't volunteer to get splashed in the face with warm cat pee doesn't mean a squirt gun filled wit cat pee is a good self defense weapon as a determined person would walk fight through the mist.
Also I rolled through your county early this AM on the way to the Bataan Memorial Death March
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fastbolt
Member
You know folks, as an instructor I usually spend much more time worrying about "marginal" shooters, than I do "marginal" calibers.
Deaf Smith
Member
Deaf Smith
Member
Normally I like to read an entire thread before I post in it. In this case however it's a very long thread. I've read the first half or so and just skimmed over the rest. So I apologize if I'm repeating something that's already come up...
Anyway, I think "marginal" is impossible to define because every situation is going to be different. What is "marginal" in 1 shooting may not be in another. Lots of variables.
The gun for starters, not all .380s are equal, as has already been pointed out. I prefer the larger .380 pistols like the Makarov. My wife shoots a Glock 42. I think pistols any smaller than the G42 become much more difficult to shoot. With shot placement being the most important thing (and I think EVERYONE agrees on this at least) I'd rather have a SMALLER caliber that I can control than a larger caliber that I can't control. I often carry a .25 ACP Beretta 950 Jetfire. I have alot of people say "but for that same size/weight you could be packing a .380 LCP or Kel-Tec". This is true, however I can't hit the broad side of a barn with those pistols. I can however shoot the beretta and hit what I aim at. Guess what I'm trying to say here is that IMHO if I go up in caliber I must also go up in gun size.
Other variables include the attacker. Is your foe a rational person who doesn't want to be shot with anything (to include .25 ACP) or are they irrational and pumped up on drugs and determined to kill you no matter what? The former will be easier to stop with a smaller caliber than the latter. Also, what if you have more than 1 attacker? It might take multipe rounds per bad guy to stop them. At some point magazine capacity might become more important than caliber. I think this is why some people would rather have a 6 shot .32 cal revolver than a 5 shot .38 cal revolver of equal size.
Really I think these debates are pointless because unless you have a crystal ball and know exactly when and how you will be attacked and need your pistol, you won't know if it's "marginal" or not.
I think most important things are as follows:
#1: Have a quality firearm (as in the more reliable the better)
#2: Practice with it (again shot placement very important)
#3: Have a good method of carry (nice holster makes a big difference)
#4: Have good situation awareness (pay attention to surroundings, avoid trouble so you won't even need the gun in the first place)
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#99: Worry about caliber
Anyway, I think "marginal" is impossible to define because every situation is going to be different. What is "marginal" in 1 shooting may not be in another. Lots of variables.
The gun for starters, not all .380s are equal, as has already been pointed out. I prefer the larger .380 pistols like the Makarov. My wife shoots a Glock 42. I think pistols any smaller than the G42 become much more difficult to shoot. With shot placement being the most important thing (and I think EVERYONE agrees on this at least) I'd rather have a SMALLER caliber that I can control than a larger caliber that I can't control. I often carry a .25 ACP Beretta 950 Jetfire. I have alot of people say "but for that same size/weight you could be packing a .380 LCP or Kel-Tec". This is true, however I can't hit the broad side of a barn with those pistols. I can however shoot the beretta and hit what I aim at. Guess what I'm trying to say here is that IMHO if I go up in caliber I must also go up in gun size.
Other variables include the attacker. Is your foe a rational person who doesn't want to be shot with anything (to include .25 ACP) or are they irrational and pumped up on drugs and determined to kill you no matter what? The former will be easier to stop with a smaller caliber than the latter. Also, what if you have more than 1 attacker? It might take multipe rounds per bad guy to stop them. At some point magazine capacity might become more important than caliber. I think this is why some people would rather have a 6 shot .32 cal revolver than a 5 shot .38 cal revolver of equal size.
Really I think these debates are pointless because unless you have a crystal ball and know exactly when and how you will be attacked and need your pistol, you won't know if it's "marginal" or not.
I think most important things are as follows:
#1: Have a quality firearm (as in the more reliable the better)
#2: Practice with it (again shot placement very important)
#3: Have a good method of carry (nice holster makes a big difference)
#4: Have good situation awareness (pay attention to surroundings, avoid trouble so you won't even need the gun in the first place)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
#99: Worry about caliber
JWH321
Member
When actually confronted by a bad guy who wants to hurt you, there is no caliber that is not marginal. I've seen a few PCP enhanced folks against whom I might have wanted a 155 mm howitzer.
But for walking through the neighborhood at midnight, walking the dog at zero dark hundred, or as a backup tucked away in some unmentionable part of one's anatomy, a .380 will still make you feel all warm and fuzzy. And if you practice with the gun and the ammo you will be carrying, a .380 is far from ineffective. A .380 to the head will end any argument that I have ever witnessed. The purpose of a .380 is to allow you to go home at the end of the argument. You will not take down a terrorist at 1000 yards with one. You will not shoot holes in an escaping car with one. And those limitations are probably good.
But for walking through the neighborhood at midnight, walking the dog at zero dark hundred, or as a backup tucked away in some unmentionable part of one's anatomy, a .380 will still make you feel all warm and fuzzy. And if you practice with the gun and the ammo you will be carrying, a .380 is far from ineffective. A .380 to the head will end any argument that I have ever witnessed. The purpose of a .380 is to allow you to go home at the end of the argument. You will not take down a terrorist at 1000 yards with one. You will not shoot holes in an escaping car with one. And those limitations are probably good.
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Actually as demonstrated in a YouTube video included in an earlier post the 380 will shoot through car doors, but if the car is fleeing why would you be shooting at it anyway?
Deaf Smith
Member
So you feel you could make a head shot in the 'zero dark hundred'? Is that it? You expect heat shots for all self defense?
Lot's of luck on that.
Deaf
And your point is?
So than you have already decided that 380 is marginal?
Deaf Smith
Member
So have I.
And yes, relying on head shots is a very poor plan, with any handgun/cartridge.
Deaf
crazysccrmd
Member
Can we just let this die already? No one is going to change their mind.
If it bothers you why do bother reading the posts?
Getting other opinions never hurts, does it?
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