Is 380 Just A Marginal Round?

[C0untZer0]

Precision One's loading of Hornady's XTP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwCXXpEP50

It also is a good case for why you wouldn't use FMJ.

 

[browningguy]

I think the .380 is just fine. Personally I usually carry a 9mm, sometimes a .40. But my daughter has identical pistols in both calibers (EAA Pavonas) and shoots the .380 version so much faster and more accurately I prefer for her to carry it. And she does too. When I am just hanging out in our little suburb I often run to the store with just a .32 or .380 in my pocket, and never worry about it a bit. We both use the DTX bullet, so not so affected by clothing layers.

But for those of you living in a war zone carry the biggest gun you can with as much ammo as possible.

 

[Terminatorret]

Here is a great discussion on this topic:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/98508-380-load-calling-erich.html

I never feel inadequate when carrying .380 FMJ in a dependable, accurate firearm. I've worked as an ER RN for the past 14+ years and have seen many .357, .45, 9mm, etc... patients treated and released home. I've seen .22, .32, .380 victims end up in the morgue. It's not all about power nor caliber. It's about shot placement and penetration. .380 FMJ is a killer. Read what Erich says. He's spot-on.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Handgun rounds are all marginal. I wonder now why there are any calibers smaller than .45 since seeing pistols like the XD-S...what possible reason could there be for the .380 to even exist now that we have 9mm's the same size?

VooDoo

 

[kokapelli]

Handgun rounds are all marginal. I wonder now why there are any calibers smaller than .45 since seeing pistols like the XD-S...what possible reason could there be for the .380 to even exist now that we have 9mm's the same size?

VooDoo

Because there are a lot of people that for various physical reasons can't handle the recoil of a mini 45.

 

[jimbo555]

For me the ultra light 380's like the keltec, diamondback and ruger lcp recoil much worse than a larger 9mm with a little weight like a walther pps, s&w shield or a sig p-290 especially if you stick to standard pressure 9mm. And it's a lot easier to find standard pressure 9mm that will penetrate and expand.

 

[msmp5]

Historically, I think the .380 was a compromise for a defensive pistol, where the person carrying it needed a smaller weapon for concealment, and accepted the marginal "stopping power" of that round for ease of carry/concealment. But now that there are a number of pistols chambered for the 9mm which are as small as many .380's of a generation ago, one can choose to carry a bit more stopping power (a 9mm) and still have the "conceal-ability" size of some of the .380 pistols of days of yore. We all make compromises in what gun we carry for EDC defensive use, in fact, choosing to carry a handgun at all is a compromise....... If we knew we were going to a gunfight that day, we'd be carrying a [submachine gun; rifle caliber machine gun; SAW; crew served MG with a bunch of armed friends, etc] correct? So if someone chooses to carry a .380 "just in case", I'm good with that...... After all, as others have said, shot placement is just as important as caliber/"stopping power".

 

[Plan2Live]

If we knew we were going to a gunfight that day, we'd be carrying a [submachine gun; rifle caliber machine gun; SAW; crew served MG with a bunch of armed friends, etc] correct?

Personally if I knew I were going to get into a gunfight I would try my best to not be present for that fight. To each his own.

 

[Armybrat]

My Kahr CT380 (7+1) is primarily a delaying tactic whilst I exit the scene Stage Left.

Sorry, but we all can't be this guy no matter how much we try:

 

[strambo]

I might think so if I lived in a place like Islamabad, but here in Missouri I feel fine with a .380 or .32.

If someone made a 9 or 45 in the same size as a P-32 or LCP, I would carry that instead.

Why? Won't an armed human trying to kill you be as hard to stop in either geographic location?

Now, the odds of being in a life or death encounter may be greater in one place vs. another, but the severity is the same if it does happen.

 

[TestPilot]

Yes, it is a marginal ammo, even by pistol ammo standards.

I carry a 380 for what it is, not what I wish it to be.

Comments like "95% effective as 9mm" is not based on facts. It is based on what someone wants to believe.

 

[TestPilot]

what possible reason could there be for the .380 to even exist now that we have 9mm's the same size?

For the simple reason that your primise is false.

I have yet to seen a 9mm pistol a size of a Ruger LCP and still works to my fielding standards.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Yes

Yes.

 

[MICHAEL T]

BG 's are not superman . The sight of a pistol will send most running. Put a couple rounds in BG and I'll bet majority will be either running or begging not to kill them .

Lets get pass the 300 lb drug addict . Most of the real drug addicts I ever saw. Were wasted bodies no weight or mussel to speak of. Meth is common in my area and they look like walking dead.

Never met a person who wanted shot . BG like to prey on what they feel are weak and unarmed people . If a gun appears well that a game changer for them.

I had to show my pistol a couple times in the 80's 1st time a 25 Beretta. Guy hauled his butt other way . Next time 3 guys , A J frame 38 changed their mind . All three found some place to go. I wasn't easy prey . I learned to stay out of bad areas of town and trouble greatly reduced .

 

[Rule3]

The Barnes Buffalo Bore doesn't even meet the FBI recommended minimum penetration.

Here is a much better look at 380 ammo performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts

As mention here. The proof is in the pudding! Or gel

Watch ALL the tests of the finalists not just the summary. It follows FBI protocol.See what the bullets do.

Is the 380 a 40 SW or a 45 ACP? Of course not. But with the right bullet it can be very effective and much more effective than the big gun you leave at home!

 

[Deaf Smith]

Is 380 Just A Marginal Round?

Yes it is. But a easy shooting gun chambered in it helps alot.

Like a SIG 232sl, or Beretta 84, or Makarov.

They fit the hand well, point well, good triggers, and can take +p all day.

But those little mouseguns, like the Ruger LCP, or Taurus TCP, are much harder to shoot.

Deaf

 

[cluttonfred]

Clearly the .25 ACP is useless now that we have the .32 ACP.
Clearly the .32 ACP is useless now that we have the .380 ACP.
Clearly the .380 ACP is useless now that we have the 9mm Makarov.
Clearly the 9mm Makarov is useless now that we have the 9mm Luger.
Clearly the 9mm Luger is useless now that we have the .40 S&W.
Clearly the .40 S&W is useless now that we have the .45 ACP.
And so on until we all end up with .500 S&W revolvers. Pocket carry can be a challenge, though.

This is a silly line of reasoning. Different guns for different circumstances and personal preferences. I wouldn't volunteer to get shot with a black powder .22 Short. Would you?

 

[Glockwheeler]

One thing I see popping up in this thread is reference to the 380 "killing" people. Obviously, it is capable of killing a person and really is not in question. Personally, I am far less concerned about "killing" someone who is attacking me as I am "stopping them in as quick a fashion as possible. Two things that concern me with the 380 is the need to use FMJ to get adequate penetration (yes, shot placement is crucial). Last time I checked, FMJ is typically regarded as being the worst choice in most every caliber right out of the gate.

In addition, is the 380 capable of penetrating a hand, forearm, upper shoulder bone or any combination of such and still penetrate deep enough to reach vitals (to then include the sternum and/or ribs)? Sorry, but I don't trust a light, slow moving bullet to reliably do such. Myself, being confined to a wheelchair, choose to have a pistol in a caliber capable of reliably doing the above, if need be. If I am attacked, I will be unable to retreat, take cover, etc. I would prefer a pistol I can use to inflict as much damage, per shot rather than firing a lot of 380 rounds. As such, I typically carry a Glock 29 loaded with either 165 or 180 grain Gold Dot or Golden Sabre bullets.

It is not my intention to disrespect others choices, as we all have to justify our own personal needs, should such a terrible thing happen. Many people trust the smaller calibers to work, I simply do not. I prefer to plan for a worst case scenario rather than best case (I am not willing to assume an attacker is simply going to run away at the mere sight of a gun).

 

[Delford]

When shooting my PM45 the first time I also shot a .38 spl revolver and an LCP .380. My point of aim with the Kahr was center target even the it has a "long pull DA trigger." The S&W .38 snub nose was left of center and the LCP was above and mostly off the target. These were quick fire drills. Whatever fits your point of aim and hand best seems to be the best choice in caliber. Nothing is marginal if you can hit the target and stop an attack. My $.02.

 

[amd6547]

I might have said the 380 is marginal a year ago.
Then, I bought an excellent condition Beretta 84F, surplus from Israel. I mainly got it as an investment, since the price was pretty low.
A trip to range found me liking the 380 Beretta a lot...comfortable in the hand, points great, accurate and reliable.
Carries IWB very easily.
Even though I own a Glock 26, and shoot it very well, I often find myself carrying the 380.
I don't feel poorly armed with 14rds of Hydrashok or gold dot, or even FMJ.

 

[mavracer]

Yes I sure do. I shoot at three different ranges and I see what people are shooting.

Lol I'm quite sure that a great many CCW holders don't go to 3 public ranges in AZ.
I know plenty of people who carry 9mm,40 and 45s that don't go to public ranges at all.

 

[Gary A]

Michael T wrote:

Never met a person who wanted shot . BG like to prey on what they feel are weak and unarmed people .

That is consistent with everything I've ever read or heard about predator/prey relationships across all species. No reason to believe it doesn't apply to Homo sapiens.

 

[kokapelli]

Lol I'm quite sure that a great many CCW holders don't go to 3 public ranges in AZ.
I know plenty of people who carry 9mm,40 and 45s that don't go to public ranges at all.

And how does that relate to what people shoot? It seems to me that if you want to know what people are shooting, you go where they gather.

 

[AustinTX]

I wouldn't volunteer to get shot with a black powder .22 Short. Would you?

If I could banish just one of the many useless clichés that accompany the caliber debates, it would be this one. Does anyone thinks this proves anything in these debates? I'm not going to volunteer to get shot with a BB gun, have a dull dart thrown at my forehead, or take an open-handed slap to the face either. So what?

 

[joneb]

I'm in the post#3 camp, this goes the same for 9x18 Mak. These cartridges were created with FMJ bullets in mind, and they are effective. I do think a compact 9x19 with JHP would be a good option, but I will continue to carry my East German Mak. with FMJ's. It is what it is for me