Man defending home charged with murder

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To heck with the safety of innocents and those innocent until proven guilty - they're only citizens. Not important at all - certainly not more important than officers of the law.

All that really matters is that the special class of people known as Law Enforcement officers get home safely every night. Wouldn't want to lose any more agents of the state than need be.

I think this is a foolish stance to take as well.

I DO want all the Law Enforcement to make it home every night.

I do not want to make their job more safe by scaring citizens into not defending their home.

I want to make their job more safe by NOT sending them on dangerous, ill-advised raids.
 
This story was in the Virginia papers a few weeks ago. IIRC, the victim (home owner) had his house broken into recently and had just bought new locks for his house, did not feel safe. Not an excuse for reckless shooting, but the guy had to be feeling vulnerable after the recent home break in. And he felt absolutely horrible about the shooting (yeah, so what, but...)

Read this link for Ryan Frederick's side of the story... http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/im-not-murderer-they-make-me-out-be

During a jailhouse interview, Frederick said he was sleeping in a back bedroom because his job as a soft drink merchandiser required him to get up early. His dogs, Dora and Bud, were in the house. He woke up because his dogs “were barking like crazy. They’re going like really crazy, so I grab my gun. As I’m walking through the hall, someone comes busting through my door.”

He said intruders were pushing through the bottom panels of the four-panel door, he said. The lighting in the house was dim. Frederick said he didn’t hear anyone say “police” or see identification.

“I was like, 'Oh, God, if I don’t shoot, then he’s going to kill me’ … I think I shot twice. I can’t remember. It happened so fast. All I know is the gun jammed.”

Frederick said he then went back to the bedroom to get a telephone. When he realized police were outside, he walked out of the house and surrendered.

On Jan. 14, three days before the police shooting, Frederick said, someone kicked in a rear portion of the fence around his home and broke into his garage.

“They ransacked my place like they were looking for something. But they didn’t take anything,” he said.

His fear grew, he said, as he thought about a recent, nearby crime – Ny-Asia Tillmon, 1, who was shot and killed in November in South Norfolk.

Hours before the encounter with police, Frederick said he purchased three dead-bolt locks for his garage and home. He said he was worried he would be victimized again.


Here's some more links with different slants...
http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_0012308_cop_dead_ches_drugs.4f1b1825.html
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/02/chesapeake-police-warrant-policy-being-reviewed-wake-shooting
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=7758590
 
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BLC said:
Way to go posters who have no idea what the hell they're talking about!

Feel free to check the biography of the writer. He's almost as anti-cop as some of you are.

I am not anti cop

BLC, Just to clarify, are you saying you're not anti cop? Or are you saying you're Radley Balko? :p
 
First degree and possibly facing capital? Wouldn't such a charge require mens rea to stick? I hope he finds a good lawyer and doesn't let them pressure him into making a very unwise legal decision. The worst case scenario I can see panning out in court is him claiming imperfect self-defense and getting convicted of manslaughter. Considering it was a police officer that was killed, I think this may be the most likely scenario as well, though I guess it all comes down to who's on the jury.
 
When you mix controlled substances in your life, or simply things that look like controlled substances

OH SHI---

BRB, dumping all my flour and sugar down the toilet.

Can't get mixed up with stuff that may look like drugs, now can I! And here I was, maintaining this foolish notion that I was free to do as I pleased so long as I obeyed the law in this country. Foolish me. :rolleyes:
 
Originally Posted by BLC
Quote:
Way to go posters who have no idea what the hell they're talking about!

Feel free to check the biography of the writer. He's almost as anti-cop as some of you are.
I am not anti cop
BLC, Just to clarify, are you saying you're not anti cop? Or are you saying you're Radley Balko?


Definite negative on both!:D
 
Once upon a time, I was naive to think there was such a thing as justice, now I know it's all politics, who you know and how much you have. The erosion of the individuals rights is staggering. I remember once upon a time when a mans home was his castle, and a warrant needed to be served before entering unless a felony was known to be committed at the time and then only if someones life was suspected to be in danger. I all too well remember my attitude when in uniform, and I got into trouble plenty because of it, but there is a fine line between being gung-ho and that of violating the law. Today's LEO's seem to forget that they too are ordinary citizens that need to follow the law, no matter how silly, unfortunately, we live in this brave new world where Homeland Security has twisted their minds and provided them with the means and attitude that they are all paramilitary forces.

A few reminders from my man TJ:

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

And of course, my other man, B. Franklin

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
 
Personally, I feel for the Defendent, based on..

...

Well, I'm no cop-basher, far from it, but based on, what I sense, a fair article bearing statements (facts, whose side, is the question) that support the innocent, until proven, guilty, defendant.

What strikes me are some key statements: (from both sides)

Defendant's house was broken into 3 days prior, nothing stolen, and statements by prosecution support defendant's claim that intruder was PD's sent in man, who broke a law of unlawful entry and property damage.

Defendant was a avid gardener, with items, as described, by informant, for such purposes, but NO pot growing found.. just a Japanese plant/s that have similar leaves to Pot plants, that would support illegal intruder, PD's informant, to assume it was Pot, let alone, take a small leaf, to verify IF it was, in fact, a pot plant.

Defendant's Dogs started barking at loud sound (loud door knock?) or basing in of door? No matter..

Defendant says he was "startled" (sounds right to me, considering his house was raided just 3 days prior.. And grabbed his SD/HD pistol and saw intruder coming in thru bottom of door and took the shot..

Prosecution says detective shot in front yard but, is it not a strong possibility, considering all reported statements from both sides, that the detective was either pulled back by fellow officers into the yard, or he, himself, crawled back out of the door, into the yard?

The truth is, more times than I care to think about, where PD's and their DA's twist "the facts" (or hide the facts from Defendant's Council) in order to get a conviction, no matter, to avoid the spotlight of a wrong or possible lawsuits that they know, if found out, they would lose in a Court of Law..

I'll leave it at that, and hope that "the truth" and "the facts" will bring about a "just decision" for this matter.


Ls
 
While he may be right or wrong in the shooting, he did have paraphenalia and weed in his possession. This will hurt him big time b/c if the prosecution has no real case (facts are determined that the shooting was "justified"), they will try and try to get the jury on their side (well, he has weed and look at the poor widow crap). Im not rooting for one side or another. Its just plain sad.

Interesting note, the usage of Swat style tactics and units has been up 1200% since 1980. Interesting statistic, up there with the most stolen car is the Camry/Accord/Taurus. Wasnt Swat really beginning to be accepted in the early 1980s? Someone is using numbers to try to get fear on their side.

-1 to the cops, but specifically judge, that would allow a warrant to be issued for essentially an illegal method of information gathering (breaking into someone's house is really really bad ju-ju). Who is watching the watchers in this situation? Who are they employing to break into the house to get info? Some crackhead attempting a plea bargain? Bad Ju-Ju.

I hope the poor guy gets a good lawyer, not to get back at the cops, but to get out of the grips of a uncaring, faceless death dealing state system and situation.
 
Its just the gradual militarization of the police brought to you by the war on some drugs , the war on terror, and the fun of playing Ninja soldier with cool toys bought by federal grants.

You see most police departments dont need a swat team but maybe once in 10 years or so. But they spend lots of money on the training and equipment.

The bean counters ask how often to you really need SWAT? The answer everyday so we can serve ordinary warrants. Thats how you keep the funding and all the cool toys...

Besides many of our fellow Americans love living in a police state:
Here is a train ninja at my local train station, and the SS asking for a passengers papers:

I don't mind people searching me," O'Connor said. "They're actually better than airport security."
:barf:
 

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The lesson here is do not force your way into people's homes in the dead of night. Do so and you are taking your life into your hands.

Some here are criticizing him for engaging an intruder through the door. What is your alternative? Wait until they are able to make entry? That is as absurd as laws requiring retreat.

On a different note MasterofMailice is an interesting handle for a cop.

mal·ice /ˈmælɪs/
–noun
1. desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another, either because of a hostile impulse or out of deep-seated meanness: the malice and spite of a lifelong enemy.
2. Law. evil intent on the part of a person who commits a wrongful act injurious to others.
hmmm.....
 
search warrant obtained based on ILLEGALLY obtained hearsay from an "informant"? that dept is going down in flames. the prosecutor is just trying to save face for his cop buddies. he should be prosecuting the police themselves, the "informant", whoever authorized the break-in, and the judge that issued the warrant.

Bobby
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juju

There is good ju-ju, and then there's bad ju-ju. Check out the "usage in military culture".

Thank you, this is now added to the large list of useless information in my head.

(Incidentally, this isn't sarcasm, I like having the massive library of useless information in my head. It just won't go away.)
 
Quote:
When you mix controlled substances in your life, or simply things that look like controlled substances
OH SHI---

BRB, dumping all my flour and sugar down the toilet.

Can't get mixed up with stuff that may look like drugs, now can I! And here I was, maintaining this foolish notion that I was free to do as I pleased so long as I obeyed the law in this country. Foolish me.

Depends on the circumstances. Could you realistically go around in public snorting ordinary flour or powdered sugar and not get checked out at some point? Could you realistically be seen popping harmless pills of some kind and acting like a fool and not get checked out at some point? Can you carry a tightly wrapped package of modeling clay in your carry on luggage at the airport and not get checked out at some point?

Let's turn this "appearances" thing around. If someone comes to your front door with a stocking mask and a realistic toy gun what would your reaction to "appearances" be? It's a friend of yours playing a stupid prank. If some friends of yours in a car you don't recognize, and you can't identify them immediately, comes up behind you and starts ramming your rear bumper, what will your perception of the event be? If you see a big black man in ragged clothes wrestling a small white guy in a suit to the ground, what will your perception be? It's a plainclothes cop nabbing a resisting drug courier.

Appearances matter, and you need to be able to back up whatever appearance you're projecting. You have to be in the right, and hopefully your appearance, behavior, and immediate possessions don't trigger the concern of others to the point that you need to be checked out.

You can get mad about it all you want, but it doesn't change the reality of it. What you appear to be and what you appear to have in your possession can and will trigger unwanted attention.
 
It's all about officer safety guys.
Make the connection.

To heck with the safety of innocents and those innocent until proven guilty - they're only citizens. Not important at all - certainly not more important than officers of the law. All that really matters is that the special class of people known as Law Enforcement officers get home safely every night. Wouldn't want to lose any more agents of the state than need be.

You're not taking it far enough; think like a police chief or a mayor: If we lose too many officers, we won't be able to hire more for the substandard pay we give 'em.

It's all about the money.

No-knock raids. IMO, this did not require one. The guy was suspected of growing weed, not something heinous and violent. Plant a few cops in an unmarked car across the street and pick the guy up when he goes out to get his mail or drive to work.

Without a no-knock warrant, the homeowner might have had time to destroy any evidence that could be used for civil forfeiture proceedings against his house, car, bank accounts, etc.

It's all about the money. (it's always about the money)
 
Nope. It's about the rule of law.
YUP.
So if us CITIZENS of this country have to follow them.....shouldn't OUR public servants follow those same rules as well?:scrutiny:
all I know is this "Citizen" certainly was not protected OR served by the LEO's in his community......
 
There is a pretty extreme difference between a little marijuana for smoking and a full blown drug operation. Trying to make a misdemenor possesion charge an excuse for a no-knock warrant and assault on a home is pitiful and shows the extreme level cops and their supporters go to justify terrorist behavior.

The fact they have a burgular working for them is also interesting. Their super secret informer happens to have been visiting about the time his house was prowled.

I agree it is ashamed the policeman got killed, but using no-knock tactics on a 100 pound guy with no criminal record seems excessive and shows a serious lack of judgement on their part.

This appears to be a case where the thrill of humiliating another human being got the best of law enforcement.

Maybe I am wrong and they have broken up the biggest Japanese gardening ring on the east coast, thus saving us from unwanted goldfish ponds and funny colored trees.

Or maybe I am right and this police department has been working to closely with criminals and has forgotten that the other 98% of America just needs a knock at the door and a few polite questions.
 
Quote:
When you mix controlled substances in your life, or simply things that look like controlled substances,


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Man,
This just scares the crap out of me.
OK. I'm sure not planting any tomatoes this year. :neener::neener::neener:
 
Could you realistically go around in public snorting ordinary flour or powdered sugar and not get checked out at some point? Could you realistically be seen popping harmless pills of some kind and acting like a fool and not get checked out at some point? Can you carry a tightly wrapped package of modeling clay in your carry on luggage at the airport and not get checked out at some point?

I can't speak as to the laws elsewhere, but in Florida, selling flour or sugar is as illegal as selling an actual drug. As long as the buyer thinks it's the real thing, the seller can be arrested. The penalties for selling a "counterfeit substance" are as stiff as selling the real thing.
 
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