My Unruly Glocks

[M1key]

Sherri, are you aware of the problems with US ammo? Seems many manufacturers load underpowered stuff. Here is a comment by DannyR of Glocktalk:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15902507&postcount=20

Over the years, several U.S. ammo manufacturers have reduced the power level of their cheaper lines in order to squeeze out more profit dollars. That is a sad fact. You must accept that not all 115-gr ammo is created equally. Manufacturer's specs prove that point beyond question.

Glock 9mm pistols have been designed for NATO ammo since day one. Minimum ammo velocities used to be published in the Glock Armorer's manual. The year 2000 manual calls for a minimum of 1,180fps from 115-gr and 1,148fps from 124-gr. Remington UMC, Blazer, Federal Champion and PMC fall far below those minimums. Most European choices meet or exceed NATO spec.

By the way, the original Gen1 G17's cam with 18# recoil springs, but Glock had to change that to 17# because of the US Market in 1986.

I am posting a copy of my research once again. Bottom of the list is the lowest powered ammo. Should Glocks run on anything? No! Should BMW's and Shelby Mustangs run on regular gas? No. Why is UMC, Blazer and Champion so cheap?

Brand Weight Velocity Power Factor
Fiocchi 124 1180 146.32
Fiocchi 147 1000 147.00
Fiocchi 158 940 148.52
Am Eagle 147 1000 147.00
Win RA9124N NATO 124 1185 146.94
RWS Sport FMJ 124 1181 146.44
S&B 124 1181 146.44
Rem. Express 147 990 145.53
Magtech 147 990 145.53
UMC 147 990 145.53
Lawman 147 985 144.80
Prvi Partizan 147 984 144.65
S&B 115 1250 143.75
Fiocchi 115 1250 143.75
Am Eagle 124 1150 142.60
Glock Minimum* 124 1148 142.35
Win USA 124 1140 141.36
Blazer 147 950 139.65
Lawman 115 1200 138.00
PMC Bronze 124 1110 137.64
Magtech 124 1109 137.52
Win USA 115 1190 136.85
Rem. Express 124 1100 136.40
UMC 124 1100 136.40
Am Eagle 115 1180 135.70
Glock Minimum* 115 1180 135.70
Blazer 124 1090 135.16
Blazer Brass 124 1090 135.16
Lawman 124 1090 135.16
Cor-Bon match 147 900 132.30
My Reloads 147 900 132.30
PMC Bronze 115 1150 132.25
Prvi Partizan 115 1148 132.02
Blazer 115 1145 131.68
Blazer Brass 115 1145 131.68
Rem. Express 115 1135 130.53
Magtech 115 1135 130.53
UMC 115 1135 130.53
Federal Champ 115 1125 129.38

*2000 Glock Armorer's manual
__________________

 

[wickedsprint]

My GF had the same issue with a Glock 19 and her S&W Sigma 9mm. She can fire my Glock 23 and a Glock 21 with no issues. I suspect the softer recoiling 9mm is not enough to overcome limp wristing.

 

[Sherri]

M1key--Thanks for your post. Aside from my own experience with PMC and MagTech in the Glocks, no I wasn't aware of issues with factory ammunition.

They're not based on a large number of rounds, but here are the chronograph results I have:

PMC 115gr FMJ - Glock #2
------------------------
Rounds: 10
High: 1049
Low: 1022
ES: 27
Avg: 1036.8
SD: 7.7

PMC 115gr FMJ - Glock #1
------------------------
Rounds: 10
High: 1073
Low: 1045
ES: 28
Avg: 1060.8
SD: 10.2

MagTech 115gr FMC - Glock #2
----------------------------
Rounds: 9
High: 1172
Low: 1110
ES: 62
Avg: 1134.3
SD: 20.3

MagTech 115gr FMC - Glock #1
----------------------------
Rounds: 5
High: 1156
Low: 1103
ES: 53
Avg: 1129.4
SD: 18.9

 

[fastbolt]

The info about the recommended minimum velocities for 9mm ammunition used in Glocks is from an older Glock armorer manual, as I recall ('92?).

I'd not willingly use ammunition which exhibited velocities below those recommendations.

I'd also consider it possible that the newer, more heavily spring Gen4 9's might require even more of the shooter if used with budget ammunition which exhibits "borderline" velocities relative to the older recommendations.

Of course, I'd simply use more powerful 9mm ammunition, myself ... and I do.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Thanks for bringing us up to date...Have fun

Sorry to bring this thread up again, but I thought an update was in order.

I've had both Glocks at the range two or three times since my last post, and they're behaving well. I'm feeling really good about having gotten them under control. That's perhaps not a typical response--perhaps I'm an Abby Normal case.

I did pick up some more PMC ammo. I'm mixing it up with the MagTech, just for grins.

I worked up a load and have a case and a half set to go. It's time to go shoot.

Thanks to all. You've been a great help and I appreciate it.

Sherri

 

[Sherri]

fastbolt--I'm new to this. It never occurred to me to ponder the velocity of the ammunition. Having tamed my unruly Glocks, I have some experience under my belt.

Harley Quinn--I am having fun. I'm making friends with a new SA 1911 (she bit me, but we're working it out). I will prevail.

.45 loads are coming along.

It's all good.

 

[fastbolt]

De nada.

It would nice if we didn't have to take such things into consideration, wouldn't it?

Then again, sometimes using low octane ammunition is like using low octane gas.

 

[1SOW]

Sherri: This (FAQ) quote from gunsprings.com aka Wolff springs, backs up bds' saying holding a spring compressed will weaken it faster.

Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.

Leaving the slide locked back will stress the spring for a longer period of time.

Additionally, the springs that come in any gun are tailored for a given range of power generated by the cartridge. If you normally shoot cartridges out of, or near the bottom/top of that range , a better-suited recoil spring can make the gun shoot easier/better. Extraction, ejection and felt recoil can all be improved in this case. An example is a competition-tuned gun set up for the normally fired load.

Your guns, your reloads and tuned for your shooting.

 

[Sherri]

Ok. I'll rotate the mags that have my DA loads with those that I use at the range. Makes sense. Thanks for the tip.

(Edit: addition)

I don't leave the slide locked open, so GTG on that point.

 

[Sherri]

fastbolt...

What would have been nice would have been for the guys at the gun shop to have suggested beefier ammo when I dropped by to complain about the fits I was having with the Glock. What I got was rolling eyes, commentary about my limp wrist, and opinions that I should carry a revolver.

I'll keep my tirade to myself--it's The High Road after all.

 

[GLOOB]

If it's jamming for you and not others, you're limpwristing it. Tighten up your wrist.

Sherri, don't mind this kind of comment. It's just a fact that no matter how firmly you grip the pistol, your hand, arm, and upper body mass will not magically increase, and there's a limit to how strong your wrist is. There's only so far that good technique will take you, and you may not always be able to employ said technique in a self defense scenario, anyway. The bottom line is the gun might not be reliable for you in its current form. Even if it's behaving at the range, you should ideally have a margin for error. If I were you, I'd check to see that the gun is reliable even when shooting one-handed. I doubt this will be the case.

The stock gen 4 spring is WAY stiffer than the gen 3, and no amount of break-in is going to change that. My shooting buddy is in the same boat. On her third or fourth shooting session, she finally had no malfunctions using NATO spec ammo. But it's obvious from the way the brass dribbles out that she's operating with very little margin for error. And she's a proficient shooter who's put several thousand trouble-free rounds through her gen 3 (as well as my .40 and .45 cal Glocks). The stock gen 4 spring just isn't ideal for her. One spring weight can't be ideal for both the average man shooting .40 and for someone of smaller stature shooting 9mm.

If they made softer OEM springs available through the usual distributors, it might be a different story. But as it is, Glock appears to be more than happy to accommodate the smaller shooters out there on their own dime. To Glock's credit, the rep didn't even hint that she should break the gun in further or stiffen up her wrist. The rep went so far as to state there was a known "defect" in the gun (Defect? For me, the spring is perfection!) and that a new spring will be sent out next month.

 

[Kymasabe]

SR9c...

I like Glocks. However, they don't point naturally for me so I don't own them. I'm not particularly impressed with the reports of Gen4 problems with them either. So, I bought a Ruger SR9c instead, which my 11 and 14 year old daughters have shot at the range without a problem. Have you considered possibly buying a different 9mm handgun instead of having to deal with the Glock issues?

 

[LiveLife]

What I got was rolling eyes, commentary about my limp wrist, and opinions that I should carry a revolver.

What? When my wife experiences feeding/chambering/cycling issues with Glocks, she comments "Honey, you need to increase the powder charge on this load"

Once the powder charge is increased, no more cycling issues for her, even when intentionally limp wristed.

Next time you hear that comment, you could counter back with, "Yeah, I need to stop shooting these wimpy factory target loads"

 

[Harley Quinn]

Sherri...
Long ago and far away early 60's USMC training shooting the 45 at a 12" square, number of hits gave you the medal...

I was always getting bit I used it as a way to concentrate and overcome...Knowledge that some of the shots were going to get the web of my hand...

No protecting that area then Used adhesive tape later, and it helped...

It really helped me over the years to not worry about little things concentrate on the big picture (shooting expert which I did... ) Might be why I prefer the enclosed hammer of my G21
You are doing very good

Harley Quinn--I am having fun. I'm making friends with a new SA 1911 (she bit me, but we're working it out). I will prevail.

.45 loads are coming along.

It's all good.

 

[Sherri]

GLOOB: I've run several hundred rounds through both pistols with no troubles, once I figured out that PMC was problematic with the new Glock. Two-handed and single-handed, right and left. My reloads are cycling the gun fine, too.

I suffered through that first case of PMC with the first Glock, not knowing any better, and the second case of PMC has been fine, so my experience has been that there is a break-in.

Harley Quinn: The SA 1911 has a nice curl at the top of the grip to prevent getting bit by the slide when shooting. I got bit when pushing the slide forward when taking it down to clean--the end of the left rail has a very sharp edge, and I pushed the fleshy part of my palm into it. It didn't warrant stiches, but I'll be surprised if it doesn't leave a scar. So, I *will* shoot this gun well. I ran a little over 100 rounds through it first time out without a hiccup.

Take care, all.