Now that ISIS has threatened attacks on American Shopping malls

[340PD]

OP asked a very good question.

I live in MN and frequent the MOA with my wife and grandchildren on a regular basis. The parking lots are attached to the mall and you really never have to walk more than a hundred yards to an entrance. They are heavily patrolled with bikes and dogs. There is a Bloomington police precinct located right inside the mall. The main doors are posted with a "guns are not allowed on the premises"

Fortunately, there are a few doors where the sign is not posted. Somehow, I always enter through that set of doors.

I have changed from a Kahr PM9 to a Glock 19 as my primary carry whenever I am with my family. In today's environment, volume may matter.

 

[Creature]

I am not advocating anything except discussing the topic. You, it seems, are obviously in the "nothing to see here, move along" camp. How about you just moderate instead of subverting further discussion?

 

[hso]

The more realistic response is to carry what you normally carry for a defensive firearm because there is no credible threat to the Mall of the Americas (or any other N. American mall) from a Somali terrorist group posting a video making empty threats.

We should not seccumb to the Sky Is Falling response to unrealistic threats made over the internet and as responsible gun owners we should be saying that we are instead prepared for the random chance encounter with a criminal whether they're a drug addicted mugger or a maladjusted psycho.

 

[ku4hx]

We don't go to malls for a variety of reasons, but I see no real reason at this point to alter my carry plan.

 

[Creature]

Oh for Pete's sake. How is reassessing succumbing to the sky is falling??

 

[Quiet]

 

[Tommygunn]

See prior post #81^^^^^
The Mall of America is SAFE!

No Jihadi would dare violate that sign!!!!

(Now the use of explosives and biological agents is another matter entirely).

 

[hso]

Well, that's going to make it challenging regardless of why you carry.

 

[GBExpat]

Zombies and Somalis and ISIS, Oh My!

I laughed out loud!

Thanks for that!

 

[hso]

Creature,

Reassessing is what we're all doing. Pointing out that the premise that you need to do anything different because some masked loon in Somalia posted a video that the security community doesn't think is credible is part of the basis for making a decision whether anything needs to be changed or not. If there was credible threat the response would be to avoid the hazard by staying out of those areas, not adding to the EDC.

 

[george29]

I have thought often of the fact that I carry a 6 shooter plus 5 shot BUG, I have also faced a potentially dangerous situation where the opponents carried shortened AK's and all my guys had were 9's including me. Luckily, it was a misunderstanding as we were contracted to keep the peace and so were ''they'' but had someone gone rogue from either side (one of my guys actually was the instigator due to stupid behavior) then it was a very unbalanced situation. This happened in the ME around 1995 or so but I never lost the lesson which is, if all you have is a handgun on you then cover and surprise are your best options and any decent pistol / revolver is as comparable to any other decent pistol / revolver. I still feel very well armed with either my. S&W 13-3 or 65-1 with either a 3" or 4" stoked with a quality 125gr JHP in either 38 or 357. As the great Jeff Cooper always said, ''Headshots are what count so practice your headshots.''
Lookup Westgate Mall Kenya for what could happen.

 

[msmp5]

Has anyone re-evaluated their carry weapon? According to CNN, ISIS is asking it's supporters to attack shopping malls in the United States. I have been carrying a pocket gun when in that type of place, but now am seriously thinking of going back to a full-size gun, or a compact with a 15 round minimum capacity "like a G19" wit 2 extra mags,.............

My normal everyday carry gun, about 95% of the time - and its been the same for over two decades now, since I retired my pristine HK P7M8 to my safe - is a S&W M6906 with 12 rds. Any time I plan on venturing into territory other than places I normally go - and a mall would be one of them, because I'm an Old Guy and really don't care for malls - I re-evaluate what I am carrying. I consider this re-evaluation process just another component of the overall situational awareness I try to maintain, and the risk assessment process I run though my head every time I go out the door, depending on where my travels might take me that day. I think that most of us do something similar to this, even if only subconsciously, knowing that all handgun carry is a compromise. I actually have considered the active shooter in a mall scenario (IMHO, much more likely to be a lone dingbat off his meds, than an ISIS or terrorist attack) and for these jaunts will typically throw the spare 15 rd mag - which usually stays in my car - in my pocket. For everyday carry in my usual day to day places, I have a slightly lower threat assessment, and 12 rds in an accurate, reliable gun that I am comfortable carrying and shooting, is what I consider appropriate, so the extra mag usually stays in my car. And for the very occasional times that I must travel to high crime inner-city gang infested neighborhoods, I carry two spare mags, and a back up gun (2" bbl .38 revolver). It's all just an extension of the situational awareness and risk assessment process that I practiced when working, and still try to do now, as an Old Retired Guy.

 

[Sam1911]

I am not advocating anything except discussing the topic.

And that's what we're doing. Discussing the topic. Is it a valid reason to change anything about your life? The odds say no.

You, it seems, are obviously in the "nothing to see here, move along" camp.

I'm in the, "let's take a scientific approach to answering the question instead of letting unrealistic concerns influence our thinking," camp. I don't like being fed "Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD)" from the media and politicians, and I really don't like buying into fake drama.

Not everyone feels that way. A lot of guys enjoy the rush of tame fear they get from the latest newsey "panic," and like to plan out just how they'll respond when the bearded hun opens fire in the housewares department, like a modern day James Thurber protagonist.

How about you just moderate instead of subverting further discussion?

Heh heh. I don't think you know me very well.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I think Geoko45's still on the job nothing to worry about boys and girls...

Best and most appropriate reply to this thread!

 

[jrdolall]

The point is that world has changed...and that there is now a concerted, organized and credible threat that has openly expressed a desire to strike us on our own turf.

I believe that high visibility strikes are going to happen...and sooner rather than later.

If those threats doesn't make you think or change your own personal security posture, you aren't listening.

When did the world change? At the 1972 Munich Olympics? Timothy Mcveigh(sp)? 911? Sandy Hook? Nothing you, I or any individual could have done would have prevented those acts of terror. Sure, maybe a person with a gun at SH or better security in OK City might have helped but that is hindsight. I can reevaluate my personal carry weapon and SD/HD scenarios from now til the 72 virgins come home and it won't affect random acts of terror. If ISIS blows up the Mall of America then nothing I can do here in GA will help the people in that mall. I just have to make sure I am as prepared as I can be for the acts of violence I am MOST LIKELY to have to deal with. The clowns down the street that are breaking in cars to steal laptops and cell phones are a much more imminent danger for me and my family so I prepare to handle them. It is simply not practical, or possible, to change your method of preparation in response to every conceivable threat.
While I thoroughly enjoy disagreements with the moderators I am going to have to agree with Sam on this one. Spending time preparing for an eventuality that is so remote as to be incalculable is really a waste of time. What if the people at the WTC had carried a 45 with an extra mag? Would that have stopped one of those planes?

As I stated earlier, if you are in a mall and 15 jihadists with AK's and grenades show up then be prepared to take cover and spit your 5-30 rounds of SD ammo at them. Maybe you will get a couple and save a few lives, including your own.

 

[Creature]

jrdolall wrote:

What if the people at the WTC had carried a 45 with an extra mag? Would that have stopped one of those planes?

What if there had been a sky marshall onboard those four aircraft carrying a 45?

What if there had been more armed civilians at Westgate Mall?

Would those changes have not made a difference in those outcomes? I am of the opinion that reassessing and updating security postures based on changing situations can change outcomes dramatically. It cant hurt to think about these things and maybe change what we are doing now to mitigate or reduce the impact of possible future scenarios.

 

[Thermactor]

Best and most appropriate reply to this thread!

I was this || close to making a cut and paste thread in "Strategies and Tactics" starting with:

hello friends,

Last year I made the decision to trust my life on the street to Second Chance body armor. I got the level IIa because it stops the most rounds. plus I got the Trauma Plate for the front.

What scares me is that, although I can fit an extra trauma plate in the front, I cannot fit a second one in back. As of late I have taken to duct-taping a second trauma plate to the area of my back where the heart and vital organs are located. Then I put my vest on.

Here is the questions. The ducttape solution, although tactically sound, is hot and painful to remove. I would like to go to the single-plate solution in back. What I am worried about is repeated hits to that area with .308 ammunition. I have a high-risk security job and I fear that I would be the target for repeated long-distance shots to my back.

Are any of you aware of a thicker plate that could stop, say, .338 Lapua or something like that? Is there a better way to do the second plate?

BTW, I am, of course, usually carrying a pair of ceramic plates in my briefcase so that I can shield my head. My SO (we work as a team when necessary) has a similar accessory containing a breakdown NEF single-shot 300 WinMag with an 18" bbl. The plan is that I shield us with my body and “catch the rounds” while she assembles the NEF. I lay down covering fire with my 23 (Bar-Sto .357 Sig barrel) and she makes the long shots. I will then throw smoke grenades to obscure the area while continuing to lay covering fire. The problem, of course, is when I have to turn my back to run, and then the problem crops up.

and then following up with

Thanks to everybody for the help. I am now thinking that the best thing to do is to have my wife make an “undervest” with pouches front and rear for the additional plates. This would let me have three plates in front (probably too hot and two in back. What I’m also asking her to do is to sew in a sleeve for an ASP collapsible baton. Right now I’m taping the ASP to my right calf (the left calf is where I have my G27).It’s okay for me to talk about my job, as long as I’m not specific. I am the Sergeant of a three-man Rapid Tactical Force at one of America’s largest indoor retail shopping areas. Although there are typically between fifteen and twenty normal security officers working the beat there, we decided a while ago that it would be best to have a specilized force for violent individuals. We use modified electric vehicles and can be anywhere on a given floor within eight and a half minutes.Naturally, the regular security people are unarmed. We “RTFers”, by arrangement with the local police, carry high-strength OC spray and batons. If we have a full tactical alert and permission from the local LEOs we also have a Mossberg 500 with less-lethal rounds and two K-frame Smith .38s loaded with 158gr. LRN.Basically, the situation is that we get the call, we lock up the situation, put everything five by five, and cordon the area until the local authorities arrive. We’re cops, we just don’t get the glory. I am not permitted to carry Glocks on duty; however, when my wife picks me up from work I strap on the “Deadly Duo” of a 27 and 23, each with Bar-Sto .357 bbl.I am writing a proposal to replace our current Mossberg-Smith armament with the following:

3) MP5K-PDW with red-dot sights;
2) G36 rifles using SS109 rounds;
3) Glock practical tacticles in .357 Sig
1) PSG-1 using Fed Gold Medal .308
1) Starlight scope for the PSG-1 in case we lose power in the building.
3) Glock 27 backup guns
3) Kahr P-9 holdouts

I think this would make us capable of facing nearly any situation. I’ll let you know what the management says!!!

and maybe add

To answer your question about where I work and what I guard, I the liutenant of a 3 man Rapid Tactical Force Team, in one of the nation’s largest indoor retail shopping centers. My job job is to defend and protect the lives of the many shoppers who currently vist this center, and in my line of work you cannot be too careful. My job requires that my weapons be of the highest quality, and compared to the HK94 my Team Leader owns, it is a great gun. The HK MP5SD we tesst fired was quiet, but kept jamminng with Hydra-Shoks. The round would go “nose up” out of the magazine, and stop the bolt, and I kept having to clear the chamber. I will not buy any more HK’s because of these FTF’s, the Civvie-leagal HK94 does the same thing. We are completely done with pistol caliber HK’s on our taem, our equipment must be reliable. For the smae reason, however, we will continue to use the G36 rifles for patrol, be cause they do work more smoothly than the M4’s. I just need a reliable replacement for the HK’s, and we chose SW because of their availibility and reputation.

but I doubt that I would have gotten to the point of mentioning the golf-cart mounted 'surplus Shrike missiles' before the thread got locked.

I figured that it would land me on a special THR chartered flight to Bannesville FL so I didn't do it

 

[george29]

I think that the OP was opening up a legitimate hypothetical discussion and I have read way too many rude remarks from people who either have an agenda (What will the Anti's say ''Oh My'' ) or from people who have no ability to understand we live in a constantly changing world.
The topic is legit because it is both current news AND gun related and I am astounded at the rude remarks written by people who fight or protect America from their armchairs.
Some of us have been places and been involved in things that most of you can't comprehend and understand that the first phase if trying to solve a possible but not probable situation is to start thinking it probable but not very and then to start the mind training on ''What if''.
That's all the OP is doing for the rest of you rude armchair philosophers.
I was hoping things got better here in my absence.

My credentials? Alphabet agency hired me due to extensive ME experience, failed the polygraph so here I am in a 5 figure job and not a 6 figure job thinking, at least I don't have to worry about the damn polygraph anymore.
The OP is Isoruku Yamamoto and the rest of you rude deplores are the Emperor's Yes Men.

 

[Robert]

This has gone too far off the rails, if there were any to begin with, to remain open.