Ok....Why Do People Carry Without One In the Chamber..?

[Girodin]

because of my pistol being a double action, I can lower the hammer after i put a round into the chamber, but to be honest, I'm a tad bit scared to. while lowering that hammer you never know what will happen, and I really don't want an accidental discharge on my hands.

Out of curiosity what pistol is this?

 

[gc70]

I think 19-3Ben nailed it.

He sees it as a way to make sure he doesn't have an ND. When I mention to him that he may not have the opportunity to rack the slide if he ever does have to pull the gun, his response is that there's not much likelihood that he'll ever have to use the gun in SD, but he DOES handle the gun everyday. So playing the odds, he prefers to carry empty chamber.

People perceive risks differently. If a person judges it more likely to have a lapse at some point while handling a gun daily as opposed to needing a gun when a split second counts, they are probably statistically correct.

If you judge rational behavior solely on probability, most people who carry guns (not as part of their job) would be as well off not doing so. But they do carry because they want assurance against a statistically improbable event. How much assurance does an individual want (or how improbable does the event have to be)? For some, carrying a gun without a round in the chamber is good enough. Others want more assurance and have a round in the chamber. Others want even more assurance and won't carry a gun with a manual safety or a DA trigger. And somewhere, there is someone who obsesses about being attacked from behind by a battalion of zombies, having one arm ripped off, three fingers on the other hand chewed off, and still finding a way to bring their gun into play.

Are you tactically ready for any situation you might conceivably encounter? I certainly am not, but I am prepared for those situations I think I have a reasonable chance of encountering.

 

[gc70]

If you need to carry empty chamber to avoid NDs you should not have a gun

I see this type of statement in every discussion of carry conditions. People are not infallible and anyone who thinks they are is simply wrong.

 

[MattTheHat]

Okay, I'll admit it, I sometimes carry without a round chambered. When I carry one of my 1903 Colt .32 autos or one of my 1908 Colt .380 autos, I don't chamber a round. Here are my two reasons:

1) This particular model is well known for releasing the hammer when dropped. Now, I don't plan on dropping it, but see below...

2) I only carry one of these pistols while riding my motorcycle (nice, slim design). If I should come off the bike (a wreck), I sure as heck don't want to have to worry about the hammer falling while the thing is in my inside chest pocket! On a bike, it's not likely I'm going to be able to draw the pistol and fire without first stopping any way.

That being said, if I'm any where else, I'll most likely be carrying some flavor of 1911 cocked and locked.


-Matt

 

[oldpuppymax]

I don't know of a decent holster which does not cover the trigger, making it impossible to accidentally pull it while drawing. Even a Glock, designed with no external safety, can be safely drawn from a quality side holster. The forefinger must remain straight and outside the trigger loop. All of the data about shoot outs--taking place at very close range, etc--make it pretty clear that there won't be time to rack the gun. It just seems to me that someone who takes the responsibility of carrying a firearm must also take responsibility for having that arm ready to go...immediately. It might not be as "comfortable' a feeling, but no thug is going to allow a time out while you rack your pistol.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I'm good. I'm DAMN good. I'm left handed, and I carry a vintage 1911A1 that does not have an ambidextrous safety. I practice; a lot. I am situationally aware, maybe 95-98% of the time, and unless a bad guy is already drawn and pulling the trigger, I feel that I am on even ground. I have carried a weapon either as a civilian or professionally for over 40 years. I have never been in a situation where I have not, or would not have had time to rack the slide and fire. I think chamber empty, at this point in my life, acutally gives me an advantage. Because I know what to do, and can do it smoothly, I also have the option of dumping my mag and having a TOTALLY empty weapon, or using my gun as a blunt instrument ( I'm thinking slide across the nose) without it going off. If I'm taken by surprise, or wrestling an UNARMED assailant, I only have to wrestle for, at the most, one gun that is going to fire. I HAVE been in tussles where it would have been nicer to wrestle for only ONE gun that would fire. To each their own. For the fastdraw, minute-of-death crowd (they must live in "condition red", or their life is boring), go ahead and pack with chamber full and safety off, I don't care. My way works for me. If I ever drop my gun on a tile floor by accident, I don't have to worry if Mr. Browning had Mr. Murphy working for him.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Ok....Why Do People Carry Without One In the Chamber..?

Personal choice. To add an extra measure of safety, but still have a gun handy.

Not everyone carries every day or practices as much as we would like.

I have the handicap of too-often thinking the best of people. I am too slow thinking, too safety-conscious and too trusting to ever be a great gunfighter or a great upland bird hunter. I know my limitations. It would be pointless for me to think I can ever out-"quick-draw" an attacker. But I like the idea of having a gun if I have made it through the first few seconds.

If a handgun that's one rack away from being loaded is "worthless", why is "cruiser-ready" the accepted way to keep your shotgun 'ready'? And why would we ever allow ourselves to sleep without someone on sentry duty?

I appreciate that many choose to carry with a round in the chamber. We all need to point out to antis and those on the fence that modern guns are designed to be carried in such a way.

Modern guns are also designed to load easily.

 

[NWCP]

I always carry with a chambered round. That's with either my DAO, DA/SA, or SA pistols. I guess some folks don't trust their pistol design enough to do the same. What use is a CCW pistol with an empty chamber in a gunfight? One less thing to remember if your are cocked and locked.

 

[David E]

If someone isn't comfortable carrying a certain gun design with the chamber loaded, then why don't they choose a different gun design?

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Honestly, when I first started carrying, I left the chamber empty out of fear. I got over it. I think it's something that a number of new shooters do. It's just one more level of comfort when you're new to firearms.

On a totally unrelated note, what exactly is the etymology of the name "Plaxico?" It sounds like an industrial chemical company.

 

[commygun]

I have a different reason for carrying (and keeping my nightstand gun) with an empty chamber. I have two boys, 10 and 13, and they've been extensively talked to and practiced in firearms safety. But they are boys, 10 and 13 years old, and if by some faint chance that LCP should slip out of my pocket unnoticed while I'm sitting in a chair or if I forget to put that 1911 back in the quick access safe in the morning, that empty chamber is one more step between safety and tragedy. If that gives a bad guy an edge that's a trade off I'm happy to make. Regardless, the notion that a gun is unloaded because there's not a round jacked into the chamber is ridiculous. If you really believe that then the next time you take a gun to a gunsmith or to a gunshow to trade, take it with a fully loaded magazine. I'm sure they'll appreciate that.

 

[xXxplosive]

As I mentioned....we are interested in the reasoning, opinions and concerns why some choose not to carry with one in......

It's much easier to discuss this issue here and it is much better to ask whatever questions you may have or express your concerns so we can all better understand what the hesitation may be.....

Remember as I stated, both my encounters were under 10' and completely unannounced... I would have had no time to rack a slide with an assailant at 5' in front of me on one of the occassions...

So.....whose next ? Tell us your feelings about carrying + or - one.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Regardless, the notion that a gun is unloaded because there's not a round jacked into the chamber is ridiculous. If you really believe that then the next time you take a gun to a gunsmith or to a gunshow to trade, take it with a fully loaded magazine. I'm sure they'll appreciate that.

I do have to agree with that. My days of carrying with an empty chamber are long over, but whenever this topic comes up, there is a little too much "ZOMG!!!1! If you don't carry with a round chambered, all you have is a paperweight!!!!" A loaded and inserted magazine means the gun is not empty. Plain and simple.

If you asked someone to unload a firearm, and they ejected the chambered round but left the full mag in, would you feel like they truly unloaded the weapon? Honestly?

 

[jon_in_wv]

i am not a cop nor a swat. my situational awareness and my feet allows me to carry empty. gun should be your last resort! if a BG surprises me from behind, then he's really good. give everything to him. wallets,watch the whole nine yards.

I love arrogant statements like this. If you are SO situationally aware, why do you carry at all? Just avoid the situation instead of letting yourself get into trouble. The fact is that the "situational awareness" that all the tacticool guys always talk about it total crap. Most people do walk around oblivious but you can only be aware of so much around you. Trouble WILL sneak up on you. To think otherwise is foolish.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Training and Readiness

Two things - 1. Training and 2. Readiness.

1. Training -- I am certain that the 2nd Amendment does not mention firearms training. Or journalistic or legal training for that matter.

Training is great, but IMHO we are getting into dangerous ground when we start ripping on each others' training background or regimen.

I personally trust "I went to the range with Grandpa once" Granny with a .38 Special in her sock drawer to make better shooting decisions than Mall-Ninja who has invested in uber-firearms-training.

To blatantly drive that point home in an extreme, I am pretty sure the Nazi Youth were pretty well "trained" in firearms, but I certainly would not trust them to make a good decision on when to apply that training.

2. Readiness -- If your are not "ready" enough if you don't have a round in the chamber, couldn't l tell you that you are not "ready" enough if you do not have your firearm in your hand at all times??

If I carry without a round in the chamber, what is to keep me from putting a round in the chamber if I am entering a bad area or if I get a bad feeling? Granted, it's not a perfect self-defense solution, but neither is a gun in your holster and not in your hand.

If you REALLY need self-defense, you need to carry an M4 on a sling at ready position. You also need a good number of friends around you doing the same. Preferably with close air support. I also would like a few tanks. And biscuits.

Freedom of choice is wonderful. The idea of "good/bad training" or "you're doing it wrong" regarding RKBA terrifies me.

 

[Zumet]

I dont carry one in the pipe 'cause i'm too damn lazy to bend over and pick up the boolit and remove the mag and replace the boolit.

 

[EddieNFL]

A dropped Springfield XD 45 Compact hit the floor and went off. I will never own one ever again. I traded mine in on a Glock 36 twenty minutes latter and never looked back. So did 3 other XD owners.

I know a fellow with a foot less intestine because he dropped a Glock.

 

[ohioshooter]

I do both. Some days I carry one in the chamber and others I don't. It really comes down to which gun I grab that day. If I'm already downstairs I grab my G19 that is on the fridge that always has one in the chamber. I wear it in the small of my back which is very comfortable for me. Now when I carry my full size Kimber 1911 on my hip it usually doesn't have one in the chamber unless I knowingly put one in there for the day. Is it laziness...probably but I like many others probably feel like I have enough time to rack one. But I do know that whatever gun I carry that day I'm fully aware if there is one in the chamber or not.

 

[REAPER4206969]

Reading this thread gave me a headache.

 

[shockwave]

Given a proper level of firearms training, a well-made handgun, and a decent holster

Well there you go. To restate the above, "given a gun that cannot go off accidentally, there's no concern."

Just so. But some guns in the condition 1 state can fire if the trigger is snagged or the gun is dropped. Modern technology has gone a long way to defeating these issues. My revolvers are fully loaded, but the shotgun will need a rack before one is in the chamber.

And maybe the right answer here isn't that "I'm confident and you're not," but rather it's more a matter of "I carry and maintain my weapons in a state that I feel matches my abilities and comfort level."

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Because they are new to firearms and were indoctrinated to the medias view of guns? When I got my P95DC I was totally new to guns I used to get kinda nervous. Decocker only. "What, no safety?" To a Northern Va raised gun newbie it probably turned out to be a great decision as it very quickly got me used to the idea that the safety is between your ears. Technically the gun has a trigger safety though. At first I kept it in the box with a loaded, but not inserted magazine. Now I keep it 15+1, decocked.

 

[Cosmose]

well it depends on what i'm carrying
the lcp always one in the chamber (in a high noon pocket holster)
the glock 30 unchambered reasons,
i carry it up front anywhere from 12 o'clock to 2 in a high noon iwb(really don't want a nd there)
i stay out of bad places (probably never have to even think about using my weapon)
and most importantly speer gold dot's are expensive don't have to worry about setback ( 380 ball in the lcp is pretty cheap)

is it the best way to carry? no it's just the way i carry. however i would do different if i was in a high crime area

 

[420Stainless]

I keep one in the chamber - so I can't say for sure. It seems prudent to assume that those who do carry with an empty chamber feel safer that way. I'm not about to tell them they'd be better off without their gun than to carry it without one in the chamber. There are many scenarios I can think of where, given the choice between a semiauto that needed to be racked, a sword, a knife, a stick, a handy blunt object, fist and feet, etc., I would choose the gun with an empty chamber and a full magazine. Sometimes one of those choices might actually be better given the delay to load, but certainly not always. I understand the training argument, but even the best trained among us make mistakes sometimes.

 

[LiveLife]

Hmmmmm..... thinking ....... thinking ....... thinking ........

I wonder what people talked about in the cowboy six shooter days .....


"Hey buddy, do you carry your peacemaker with rounds in the cylinder? I carry mine empty"

Of course not! Nobody holstered a gun that was empty. And OMG, they did not have safeties like we do now (I thought the modern safeties were created so that guns CAN be carried chambered safely). They treated guns with respect - loaded ones, even more so. Guns were the great equalizer and kept bad people from doing bad things to good people.


Nothing changes for us in the present. If you have the NEED to carry any gun, you fear that someone bad might do some bad things to you. If you carry a weapon, you need to not only keep it ready for use but be proficient with it too.


Thinking ......... thinking ........... pondering ...........

"Hey Mr. Samurai, do you carry your sword sharpened? I carry mine dull."

 

[dmazur]

"Hey buddy, do you carry your peacemaker with rounds in the cylinder? I carry mine empty"

While it is a little off-topic for a discussion about autoloading pistols and "condition of carry", there was a practice of keeping the chamber under the hammer empty (load only 5 in a 6-shooter), to prevent ND's. If you dropped the revolver and it landed on the hammer, it would very likely discharge if the hammer was down on a live round.

On the other hand, it was considered perfectly OK to load 6 if you were going to use the revolver immediately. It was the "carrying it around while riding on a horse" thing that was the problem...

Where the analogy fails is that the SA had no speed penalty for bringing it into action when you loaded 5 instead of 6. You lost capacity, but not speed.

I sometimes wish there was some sort of testing agency that would provide some "truth" as to the effectiveness of semi-auto safeties. That way, shooters wouldn't have to find out about bad designs after field experience developed the data, and spend time searching for it. It would be 1) readily available and 2) correct. However, the last thing we need is another government agency...

Since we're stuck doing this on our own, I suggest trusting designs that have a proven track record of safety, and to be a little suspicious of newer designs. A little research might be warranted, so you don't buy something that turns out to be unsafe.

Then, after you're convinced your selection was a wise one, use the safety and carry it with one chambered!