Ok....Why Do People Carry Without One In the Chamber..?

[LiveLife]

Another advantage of the Israeli method is that once you've trained with it, it works for all semis. DAO Glocks, traditional 1911's, DA/SA decocker style semis, and anything else out there. All the technical handgun-specific training is no longer essential. Anything you pick up, you can roll with. For a military such as the IDF that has traditionally been equipped with a motley assortment of arms that's a useful discipline. It's also useful for Americans who may have a dozen different types of handguns in their own personal arsenal. So don't be too quick to knock the method.

I have deeeeeeeep respect for the Israeli combat tactics and incorporate them into my practice (all of my carry holsters are Fobus).

But, racking the slide into battery while drawing REQUIRES 2 HANDS. As my earlier posts have illustrated, my chamber is loaded so I can draw with 1 hand if one of my hands became injured/out of action.

 

[Impureclient]

I'd like to hear some personally known, read about, or made up stories of all the poor dead fellas caught with an unchambered gun in their hands in a self defense situation.

Oh wait, there are none, never mind.

I'm also kind of curious as to how many of those who carry chambered(apparently the only way to carry a gun) also leave their weapons inside their cars/at home in places that do not allow firearms?

All of you? Well that's a relief as of course that is illegal and not high road.

When entering a hospital, National park, restaurant, airplane, school, foreign Country, military base, public event, stadium, or wherever carry is prohibited it must be hard with all that extra training and +1 preparedness to go out the window huh?

To answer the OP's question...
I carry unchambered because the only thing that will make a bullet fire will be me pulling back the slide and then pulling the trigger. I don't have to worry about anything short of somebody else actually getting my gun out of my holster, chambering a round and firing it. I carry the gun basically at night(after dark) only. When 99% of the bad guys are on the job. While carrying it I make sure I do not enter any place/situation that will not allow it keeping to my normal routine of shopping, picking up pizza, walking dog, etc. I also make sure when and if I was to be in a situation/place that warranted needing the gun chambered I do so. Which so far is never. During the day I work and eat lunch in private residences. I come home shortly before dark and then I am armed in my home til next morning and/or when and if I leave that night. I don't allow myself into situations that would mean having a chambered gun would be the difference between life or death.

Everybody has different situations. I believe the acronym, YMMV, applies here. My schedule allows for a very safe environment during the day and I only carry at night just for "feeling safer."
If I carried chambered it would not make any difference in my life. Some of us apparently are constantly in fear of being watched/trailed and in close proximity of potential criminals but, not here.
So there you have it, that's why I carry without one in the chamber.

 

[w_houle]

If you are not checking the chamber of a weapon every time, without fail, when you hand it to someone else, you are a danger to yourself and everyone around you.

All right, let's take a look at this again...

No worry about bullet setback, or clearing it when someone wants to look at it (especially OC and LEOs around here constantly wanting to run the s/n simply because they see you carrying)
It's an intermediate level of escalation of force without merely being brandishing.

All right, maybe there was confusion on a point, but clearing!= checking the chamber, and as already pointed out; not my job anyway. The local LE empty the chamber when they hand it back to you, and they usually don't have the magazine in it either. You make it sound as though I am saying that I can trea... nice troll.

 

[Gouranga]

I generally carry unchambered. My concern, I have a S&W M&P 40, if the safety is knocked off (easy to do with the thumb safety), the only thing keeping me from accidentally discharging the weapon is that trigger. I also have 4 small children. because of this when with those children, or in a busy bustling environment I carry unchambered. If in the woods, or in a more potentially dangerous environment, I will carry chambered.

For me, it simply is a balance of risk. I balance that with the fact that I can chamber a round in about a sec or less. That may be long enough that I do not have the chance to use the weapon to defend myself, but weighed against the risk of hurting my kids or someone else accidentally, it is worth it.

 

[RETG]

MAYO: The perp isn't going to know whether you have 1 in the chamber or not. Most likely, just pulling the gun is going to stop him in his tracks---at that point you have more then enough time to rack. How long do you think it takes to rack once you pulled it--less then 1 sec.

Ever hear of Tueller’s drill? (Guess not, if you had, you would not be carrying empty chamber.) It is a fact a healthy person with a knife can cover 21 feet in less than 1.5 seconds, and slice and dice you like one of those ginsue commercials. So, given the fact most people might take up to two seconds to cover that distance, can you draw, rack, point and shoot in that time? (Rhetorical question!)

We were taught Tueller’s drill, and it is amazing; how a person with a knife has quite an advantage over a person with a holstered gun. That is with no coats or other items in the way of the drawing of the weapon.

So, keep the chamber empty; it is your call. I know damn well, I will always carry with one in the chamber, if the gun has a safety it will not be engaged. I will trust the DAO or DA/SA handgun.

UNLESS you put your finger on the trigger and pull, a modern handgun will not fire a round. So practice makes perfect, and also prevents you from shooting your foot when drawing a handgun.

For those who think they can draw and rack in less than a second. try it and have someone else time it. Do it with an empty gun.

 

[LiveLife]

I carry the gun basically at night(after dark) only. When 99% of the bad guys are on the job.

Well actually, I am more worried about the 1% of the bad guys who operate during day light.

My house got robbed in day light last year (lost over $10K in property) - according to the neighbors/police, had my wife returned 30 minutes sooner to the house, she would have walked in and faced 2 armed robbers (BTW, 2 robbers were caught by next week, one paroled convict and the other 17 year old juvenile on probation).

Now, when she returns to the house, she enters with 2 dogs and a fully loaded G27 chambered with Golden Sabers.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I sometimes carry chamber empty for the reasons I stated above. Why do some of you INSIST on demeaning other people when the others DO NOT DO AS YOU DO? Does that hit home on this topic? While what I do is different than many of you, I will not infer that you are WRONG, and that you must do it my way. Why do some of you INSIST on your way being the best. or only way? It might be, FOR YOU. I carry Condition One when I want to move up the readiness scale, depending on the situation. I might even go to Condition "0". Get off the high horse. "YOU are not the boss of ME!"

 

[w_houle]

It is a fact a healthy person with a knife can cover 21 feet in less than 1.5 seconds

Even if you give someone a gun with a loaded chamber, safety off, and a non cumbersome holster: They would still have to recognize, evaluate, and properly engage the threat.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Let's not forget, a lot of people can cut your throat three times AFTER they have been shot three times center mass (they just don't know they are dead yet), so you better have some other things going for you besides a ready loaded gun in hand.............bad luck on a bad day is just that.........

 

[LiveLife]

Even if you give someone a gun with a loaded chamber, safety off, and a non cumbersome holster: They would still have to recognize, evaluate, and properly engage the threat.

There was a shooting in LA where the Sheriff shot a charging suspect a full load of magazine before the "Halt" command was shouted. According to witnesses, the officer drew and finished firing in just a few seconds. And yes, the officer fully recognized, evaluated and properly engaged the threat - the suspect was armed. +1 for the officer. BTW, the pistol WAS chambered.

 

[John Parker]

I'm having difficulty seeing the logic of that, if there is any.

It's their way of ensuring that we take it seriously.

 

[jkinkade]

I have no problem with how you want to carry........

myself,,,I carry locked and cocked,,,,,,if i do run into a bad guy,,,,i hope he needs to rack one in the chamber.......he will never hear the slide close!!

 

[gc70]

Ever hear of Tueller’s drill? (Guess not, if you had, you would not be carrying empty chamber.) It is a fact a healthy person with a knife can cover 21 feet in less than 1.5 seconds, and slice and dice you like one of those ginsue commercials. So, given the fact most people might take up to two seconds to cover that distance, can you draw, rack, point and shoot in that time? (Rhetorical question!)

21 feet in less than 1.5 seconds! Assuming a person wants to be properly prepared for that situation, you would never let anyone get closer to you than 15 feet or you would always wear a stab-proof vest, otherwise you might as well leave your gun-with-a-round-in-the-chamber at home (by the logic many have advanced here).

Different people prepare for different threats in different ways. If it makes a person feel more secure to believe that their preparations are the best possible, so be it, but that is no reason to demean others for their decisions.

 

[Gungnir]

Ever hear of Tueller’s drill? (Guess not, if you had, you would not be carrying empty chamber.) It is a fact a healthy person with a knife can cover 21 feet in less than 1.5 seconds, and slice and dice you like one of those ginsue commercials. So, given the fact most people might take up to two seconds to cover that distance, can you draw, rack, point and shoot in that time? (Rhetorical question!)

Indeed I have and is that a reason to carry one in the pipe? How long does it take you to identify the threat, draw, point and shoot. I would bet donuts to dollars it's more than 1.5 seconds unless you're in a constant state of condition red, which is a scary thought in itself, and you see the attacker, so he's in your front visual field, what if he's not? One of the prescribed defenses in the Tueller drill is to side-step to give yourself more time to draw point and shoot, if done correctly this can add in far more time while the attacker stops rebalances and comes a second time than to add a rack to the draw motion.

Remember also that the Tueller drill is a sterile scenario, you know when the attacker is going to start his attack (at the signal), this is not always the case in real life, in real life it could take up to 3-4 seconds just to progress yellow to red and identify the threat, unless they're actively attacking you, in which case your gun is likely of little benefit. From the Tueller drill in that time you'd be sliding around on your own intestines or blood spurt. Even if it takes you a phenomenal 500 mS to recognize the threat, you now need to be quick draw McGraw and get a round on target in under a second.

The big thing I'm picking up on this is a weird dichotomy... Safety is between the ears is commonly heard on this board and how firearms need fewer mechanical safeties, yet at the same time on this thread, we're hearing safety devices keep the round in the chamber safe...

Now I do keep one in the pipe, but I also trust my safety precautions and devices to a degree. I also don't think that the sub-second it would take to put one in the pipe should be critical to my survival in most cases but in the infinitesimally small chance of being in one of those situations I'm comfortable with the additional risk, but I carry all the time anyway. If I am in one of those situations where is might be a factor then I'm in bad shape anyway. There are situations where being armed will never increase your survival odds, nor will having one in the pipe but in ~99% of the ~0.001% of situations I like to add a ~0.5% improvement to my chances by carrying with one in the pipe. Its all about personal choice and I can see both sides of the argument.

 

[angel1216]

ok guys i get it! people just needs to relax! enough already with this action jackson crap!! carry the way you want to carry! end of story! gosh if it's your time to go, gun or no gun, 1 in the chamber or empty, you will go.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

"ok guys i get it! people just needs to relax! enough already with this action jackson crap!! carry the way you want to carry! end of story! gosh if it's your time to go, gun or no gun, 1 in the chamber or empty, you will go. "
AMEN! +1

 

[cleetus03]

To those who use the so called “Israeli Draw" method;

1. Does it work?
2. Is it necessary?
3. Can you do it under stress?

http://pistol-training.com/archives/183

 

[Isher]

Well -

Got to admit I'm a tad bit confused.

All handguns are locked & loaded with one in the pipe.

For whatever reason, the long guns are loaded,

But without one in the pipe.

With the exception of the side by side.

So I have to shuck a load for the git go.

Don't know why this is, just the way I do it.

isher

 

[Waterfowler]

I sometimes carry chamber empty for the reasons I stated above. Why do some of you INSIST on demeaning other people when the others DO NOT DO AS YOU DO?

In the end THIS is exactly what it comes down to. These guys would make fantastic liberals.

 

[REAPER4206969]

To most people their firearm is nothing more than a false sense of security. If they ever need it, they will die. They have no intention of ever actually using it.

 

[steveracer]

People carry with the chamber empty because they have never been properly trained, or have some strange fear that their gun will go off on its own. People with either of these conditions should correct them, ASAP, and not carry in the meantime. Empty chambers are fine for empty guns sitting in safes and on the shelves of gunshops.

 

[Impureclient]

[sarcasm]People carry one in the chamber because they are reckless and they are just that much more closer to killing.
They want to kill at any chance they can get and and have no regard for human life.[/sarcasm]

I guess some people just skip over all the other posts and just put whatever comes out of their narrow thoughts.
For the real reasons some of us do not carry chambered, see above posts.

I see there are no stories posted about unchambered guns found on dead bodies in SD situations yet.....

 

[MikePGS]

Just like everything else in life, it comes down to personal preference. That's why we have dozens of threads on why a certain caliber/platform/technique is better. Everyone likes a certain thing and assumes that they have chosen the correct thing. They then (sometimes) feel it is their duty to convert everyone else to the same method thinking it will help the other person.

 

[LiveLife]

To most people their firearm is nothing more than a false sense of security. If they ever need it, they will die. They have no intention of ever actually using it.

I had to apprehend an intruder several years ago who broke into my rental house until the police arrived. If I was carrying a pistol, it would have made the confrontation a lot easier - there was a lot of chasing around the house to make the long story short. BTW, at the trial, his attorney recommended that he plead guilty - he did.

May be I am proponent of chambered carry now because I have tasted a sense of reality of actually having been victimized by criminals.

But one thing for certain, my head is no longer buried in sand.

 

[NMGonzo]

hopefully those who carry in such fashion have the use of both their hands when the situation presents itself.