Ok....Why Do People Carry Without One In the Chamber..?

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I read a bunch and got bored.

Mine always has one in the pipe.
It is always in one of two places.
On my hip or in the safe when I take it off.

I have never seen a gun of mine go off all by itself.

I guess I'm lazy.
I prefer to draw aim and fire.
Not fiddle with a safety, chamber a round etc.

But whatever works for you.

Practice makes perfect.

I follow the path of least resistance.
 
Well...............I guess I'm to blame for starting this fiasco.... very interesting thoughts here on this subject.
Many here who do not see or feel comfortable with carrying +1 have never been up against it and have no experience with the need to defend against a threat. ....and thank God for that.
Unfortunately, I have had two situations over the years, both unannounced, in the dark and within 10' distance. I would never have had time to rack a slide to defend myself as both threats unfolded before me immeadiately.
So, having been there, I understand the need to be able to draw at close quarters and fire. Point shoot, if you will, to stop the threat immediately and not 5 seconds from now. It will change your mindset radically and scare the bejesus out of you too.
All it takes is one time over the line and you will understand why so many here remain adament about carrying Cocked and Locked.......
 
carry

I keep hearing one arguement for condition 1 is only having one arm to draw and fire while the other is either hurt or protecting urself. With all the "what ifs", whos to say that the attacker is not left handed and swings at your RT. ARM, if ur rt handed,thre goes the idea of even drawing. There are most likely a thousand "what ifs" a person could encounter, so what difference does it make HOW one carries? Carry how u feel comfortable with and go on with life and stop wasting your time thinking up possibilities that are a million to one of evrr happening!
 
I have carried a semi-auto with an empty chamber in the past. The first time was in the US Navy while being topside watch on a nuclear submarine.

The second was when I owned a Glock-17 (sadly for a short time) and had fallen in love with the 3.5# connector. Carrying concealed under Title 18 USC 926c with the likelihood of having to draw and fire in under a second being very remote, I carried the 17 that-a-way since I would have been very nervous carrying it with a round chambered with the 3.5# connector.

Additionally, when I was stationed at our National Firearms Unit I had to read and comment on all accidental discharges throughout the Agency. The Glocks had a 5:1 AD ratio to all other agency weapons combined. That was with the 5# connector and occurred mostly when the Agents holstered with their fingers on the trigger.

When we wrote the bid specs for a .40 S&W semi-auto the lowest trigger pull permitted for consideration was 8# for a DAO or equivalent handgun. I'd carry one in the chamber with an 8# connector.

Respecfully,
kent
 
Carry how u feel comfortable with and go on with life and stop wasting your time thinking up possibilities that are a million to one of evrr happening!

The odds are a lot better than "a million to one" that if you ever need to draw your gun, you will want to be able to fire it as fast as possible.
 
Unfortunately, I've had a few scenarios over the years in which I would have never been able to rack a slide. The encounters were unannounced and too close for comfort, say under 10'.

Unfortunately, I have had two situations over the years, both unannounced, in the dark and within 10' distance. I would never have had time to rack a slide to defend myself as both threats unfolded before me immeadiately.
So, having been there, I understand the need to be able to draw at close quarters and fire. Point shoot, if you will, to stop the threat immediately and not 5 seconds from now.

XXX, Can you elaborate on these 2 or 3 situations where you fired your gun in self defense, because if you didn't, it wasn't necessary to have one in the chamber. :)
 
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Well....................RB.
You weren't there with me and be glad you weren't.......No shots fired, but it was a breath away both times and obviously I'm still here.....

IMO....too many here are struck by the thoughts and ideas they conjour up about real life situations and how your going to handle them if your called upon to defend yourself.. All I can say is, after the SHTF, I was unclear of my actions as my training and defensive midset had kicked in automatically....total reaction mode......and I was in control.

After the smoke clears, reality hits.............then later on in years you realize just what the hell happened and what you did wrong to allow it to happen.

At least that's the way it was for me.
 
XXX,

Thanks for sharing, sounds like tough situations to be in and I'd hope no one would have to go through it. From what you're telling us, no shots were fired and your gun could have had an empty chamber on all occasions.

It's true, I wasn't there, but unless there's more you're not telling us, you'd have to agree with me just a little about an empty chamber still being valid.

PS I carry a G33 with one in the chamber, but I certainly have no negative comments for people that choose not to.

No disrespect.
 
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I understand that proper training and well maintained equipment render a firearm +1 completely safe, HOWEVER, simply stating that NOT having a round in the chamber renders a firearm completely useless is 100% ignorant.

Is it one more step to take? Sure. Can racking the slide be done quickly and efficiently with practice? Sure. But calling a handgun with a full magazine and a rack slide away from being fully operational a mere "club" is ignorant. With that logic, it's perfectly safe to point it at someone and pull the trigger because, HEY, it's just a useless club that doesn't go bang right?

As stated before, it is obviously more efficient and beneficial to carry with one in the chamber. But if someone is not comfortable with doing this for whatever reason they choose, then they should carry how THEY feel comfortable. If I'm depending on a weapon to keep me safe in a dark alley at night, and I feel comfortable with the certain way I carry and I practice with it... then you can bet I couldn't give two sh*ts about what you feel is comfortable and superior for you.

I believe everyone should train to carry with one in the pipe. I feel that is the most effective and efficient way to carry. However, I'd ALSO rather take a quarter second to rack the slide on the draw than not have a firearm at all.
 
To me this thread seems nothing more than, "Let's find out the ones who don't carry with one in the chamber and bash them for being either afraid or stupid."

I'm not saying what condition I carry in, its my gun, my rules. I don't tell you how to do your business, don't try to tell me how to conduct mine.
 
When I carry, I prefer Condition 2. When I carry it is usually in a pack (Maxpedition Remora) while in the mountains. I'm not going to have a C&L firearm in with other stuff.

If you want to argue that C&L is superior for speed of engagement, I will agree. But if you want to argue that C&L is safer, well then we'll have a disagreement.
 
I keep hearing one arguement for condition 1 is only having one arm to draw and fire while the other is either hurt or protecting urself. With all the "what ifs", whos to say that the attacker is not left handed and swings at your RT. ARM, if ur rt handed,thre goes the idea of even drawing. There are most likely a thousand "what ifs" a person could encounter, so what difference does it make HOW one carries?

The reason to carry chambered is because of the "what ifs."

The main point of carrying chambered is that you can't predict the circumstances you will find yourself in, but should you have to use it as Massad Ayoob has said, at least half the time it will be one handed. http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6245406&postcount=189

So, as a general rule, carrying chambered is the best course.

Does it always apply? Of course not. There will always be something that is outside the norm. As Mr. Ayoob said, carrying a firearm that isn't drop safe is a good example. Of course he also says to get a pistol that is drop safe.


For the sake of scenario discussion, let's use your example.

Let's assume that your right arm is taken out. You may still have a chance to draw your weapon at some point with your left. But if you don't have it chambered, you have just made it more difficult to use that firearm.

And before someone says "Even if you draw with your left you wont be able to hit anything", I'll agree that it will be difficult, but not impossible and better than nothing. I actually practice shooing with both hands just in case. I suck at it, but I suck a lot less than if I had no practice doing so.



I'm not going to say someone is an idiot and shouldn't be allowed to carry if they carry unchambered as one THR member so poorly put it. I will say that a decision to carry unchambered because you think you are fast enough to chamber is foolish and a decision that does not agree with the facts and history (I again refer to Mr. Ayoob...read some of his stuff to get an idea of how things really work in the real world). If you do not carry chambered because you are apprehensive about doing so, I would submit to you that you may not have the mindset that is willing to use your weapon should you need to...maybe you got your CHL before thinking about it. I can't know that, only you who have such an apprehension can.

You may simply be unsure of your firearm/yourself with your CCW. Practice will help. Get some snap caps and practice with them.



I suggest you watch nutnfancy's videos about conceal carry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei8OK4WdoW0 (check out some of the other vids he links to in that vid).

Also read Mr. Ayoob's works. He has lots of experience in the real world with firearms. If your goal is to protect yourself, your family, and those around you then learn what he as to say about firearms, tactics, and legal aspects of firearms ownership and carry.

And I hope as you have more info on the real world and not a gimmick people are selling to the uninformed, you'll make the decision to carry chambered as a general rule.
 
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RB.......you obviously didn't get my message.
I WOULD NEVER CARRY WITHOUT ONE IN THE CHAMBER.....Auto or Revolver.

All your doing is playing the odds.....and they're not in your favor.
You can never predict the actions of another, especially a predator who is sizing you up for the kill. I was damn lucky that the predators I was dealing with at least had an ounce of brains and were willing to call off the attack rather than risking loosing their lives.

In a split second it could have gone either way.....we were both lucky.
 
RB.......you obviously didn't get my message.

Look at the OP. I think I did get your message. It all comes down to what each individual chooses as a comfort zone in whether he or she opts to carry with or without one in the chamber. What works for one doesn't neccesarily mean it will work for all. My .02

Peace.
 
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OK, it has been said a bunch of times before by most of the responders that one may not have time to chamber a round in a given situation. They want their weapon to be ready. I get that. That being said how long does it take to chamber a round? How long does it take to draw a weapon? What if someone said that they carried, as in carried in their hand, a semi automatic pistol and said others were foolish to use a holster as they may not have time to successfully draw their weapon? Could that person carry an empty chambered pistol and chamber a round and be ready before someone drawing a "cocked and locked" firearm from a holster?
What I am getting at is that there are many compromises we make every day involving safety and convenience.
 
I don't have a huge paragraph to add to the discussion. I was told in the training classes I have had that you never carry without a round in the chamber. My CCW Instructor recommended against it as well.
 
I'm really tired of people saying things like, "Have you ever heard of someone one getting shot and laying dead without a round in the chamber? Me neither cuz it doesn't happen." C'mon. I'm sure because you have never looked for something it doesn't exist. A while back a guy claimed, "I've never hear of ANYONE killed my a pass through shot by FMJs" It took me about 10 minutes on line to find quite a few cases for him. Another guy claimed, "I've never even HEARD of a revolver malfunctioning. I doesn't happen." I found a bunch of cases for him and even some videos. I'm just tired of educating people. Just because you havent' HEARD of it doesn't make you right and it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It just means you have closed your mind or your ears and you CHOOSE not to accept it. Even if its hasn't you would look pretty silly being the first one.

Your weapon is supposed to be ready to handle those LIFE AND DEATH situations you can't forsee. I don't see why I would handicap myself by becoming LESS prepared. Carry with a round in the chamber. If you don't like the mechanism of your carry gun to allow that than choose another weapon. If your afraid the trigger might get pulled they wear a good fitting kydex or molded holster and get a weapon wtih a manual safety. If your worried about it falling out then wear a holster with some type of retention. Solve the problem, don't create another by placing yourself at a disadvantage when seconds count.
 
Yes but simply because it exists doesn't make it law... and everyone say it together:
The plural of anecdote is not data.
 
"Have you ever heard of someone one getting shot and laying dead without a round in the chamber?

I am bad at Googling. Can you find the answer please. This one last time, I swear. In fact if you find....1 time it occurred....I will switch to carrying chambered.
After reading all this I am seriously considering it and I think I need that real life situation where it did happen to make it set in better.
 
There was a video posted a few weeks ago of a store clerk getting shot at and he drew his c3 pistol and kept trying to run the slide while he was getting rounds pumped in him. He's dead because of his poor choice of carry.
 
In one particular situation the threat was about 6' in front of me in the dark.

Go get your wife or girlfriend and try and duplicate it. You'll soon see having one in the pipe is the only way you could possibly defend yourself against a weapon.... And if she decided to rush you and then you had to fend her off with your left forearm while drawing your pistol...........then what ?

Do you say stop while I load my gun. What about a sucker punch to the face and an assailant then pulls a weapon as you draw yours....how do you load while you're trying to stop yourself from falling.

Most attacks come unannounced, by surprise and you must react immediately and accordingly.
As I said earlier....if you've been there you know what I mean, you've lived it, if you haven't the best advice I can give you is to be Prepaired..........
 
I am bad at Googling. Can you find the answer please. This one last time, I swear. In fact if you find....1 time it occurred....I will switch to carrying chambered.
After reading all this I am seriously considering it and I think I need that real life situation where it did happen to make it set in better.

Get better at Googling. Then you will have learned TWO things.
 
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