Old ? - buck vs. bird

[RobertCohn]

I watched a show called Best Defense last week on Outdoor Channel. On this particular episode they examined the effects of various calibers over-penetrating multiple framed drywall dummies. On the bird and buck comparison, they concluded and even came close to advising that bird shot is equally as effective in ending hostilities as 00. The 00 went through three walls while the bird shot didn't go through even the first one. I know that bird shot would hurt like an SOB but I still have mine loaded with 00. What does everyone here think?

 

[Gryffydd]

Old? Yes. Very.
Here's a current running thread on this topic:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=438768

If you do a search you'll find many more.

while the bird shot didn't go through even the first one.

I think that's all that needs to be said,

 

[Grey54956]

It largely depends on range.

Bird shot won't penetrate as deeply as 00, but at close range, if the shot column doesn't have an opportunity to break up significantly, it should have enough energy to do the job.

 

[AKElroy]

I saw the same show, and I have changed my views on this. I have always advocated heavy turkey loads, and I think had they compared heavy (3" magnum#4, 2oz loads), they would have had a more impressive result. That said, I was very unimpressed with thier recomendation based on the test they conducted. I am looking at my 1300 right now, and it is now carrying 3" 00. I still think the heavy #4's are a good choice, but until I can put a few more rounds into some representative analogues, (read hogs), I am sticking with buckshot. I will report back---

 

[stolivar]

Funny bird shot

Bird shot won't penetrate more than about 3 inches in flesh. I have seen people that have been bird shot at pretty close range. Looks ugly, that is about all.





steve

 

[shoey]

Bird shot would be a heck of a deterrent though. Not many people want to keep doing what they were doing when their chest gets turned into hamburger meat.

As to the turkey loads, I would advise against that. I've always said that recoil is a non issue when the adrenaline is going, but this might be different. The heavy turkey loads are about as hard a kicking thing as I've ever pulled the trigger on.

My shotty is kept loaded with #4 bird shot.

 

[Gryffydd]

Bird shot would be a heck of a deterrent though. Not many people want to keep doing what they were doing when their chest gets turned into hamburger meat.

I'm just going to toss out a few words here:

Cocaine
PCP
Methamphetamine

I like deterrents that make hearts stop beating, they're the only ones you can even come close to counting on.

 

[CWL]

Bird shot would be a heck of a deterrent though.

If I had to fire a weapon in self-defense, I want maximum incapacitation of the BG -I am not looking for deterrence.

 

[JohnnyOrygun]

I saw the same show and was impressed. After watching it, I decided to load my Win 1300 with the first few rounds in the magazine (the last ones that would be used in a fight) with 00 buck and then the last few rounds (the first ones to be used in a gun fight) with #4 bird shot, if after 3 or 4 rounds of #4 the bad guy is still a threat it's time for the 00. That gives me some protection against over penetration and still gives me the knock down power I need if it gets that far. That is my .02 YMMV

JohnnyOrygun

 

[RH45]

I had an old, .410 shotgun that, at the time, I didn't know had issues, and was loading it in the house, getting ready to take care of a varmint, and as soon as I closed the bolt, it fired, and it penetrated the 1st wall but didn't make it through the second.

I sold the shotgun to a friend of mine that knew of the problem, and his dad did the same thing--even AFTER being warned that it sometimes went off when closing the bolt!

For in a house, the first round would be birdshot, followed by buck, or slug!

 

[C-grunt]

I want something that will reliably have a chance of penetrating the bad guys arms when he is shooting at me.

I want something that will reliably have a chance of penetrating a rib cage of a guy charging me with a knife.

I have seen what birdshot will do, it wont do the above reliably. It makes some pretty nasty wounds, but not ones that will incapacitate someone quickly.

 

[rbernie]

If I had to fire a weapon in self-defense, I want maximum incapacitation of the BG -I am not looking for deterrence.

This is a pretty sound perspective, and legally supportable.

If you are justified in using deadly force - then you are. Make it effective.

If you're not justified in using deadly force, trying to use something less-than-effective won't mitigate the fact that you used deadly force inappropriately.

We have a number of threads on the subject that I'd recommend reading. I did a quick search on 'bird shot home defense' and came up with the following:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=433855
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=416003
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=411995
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=400845
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=366429