Open carry story

[comfortador]

Hi, all! I'm a long-time lurker here finally posting. This story is longish so please bear with me.

I am nineteen and living in the greater New Orleans area. My first time open carrying (with two spare mags) I went to see a movie at a theater (which I later discovered to have a no weapons policy). Anyway, I walk in, buy my ticket; no problems, no funny looks. As I take my seat in the theater, management walks ups to me and asks for my badge. (???)

He then informs me, somewhat rudely, that the theater has a no weapons policy. It turns out they have a smallish sign on the bottom corner of a door that I have never seen anyone use in my many years going to this theater.

So I, very politely, tell him that I will go to lock it in my car. I do that. Then (some people say stupidly) I go back to watch my movie for which I paid seven-fifty (still wearing my holster as it was looped through my belt) . As I return through the main door, showing the guy working the door my ticket stub, a police officer grabs me and leads me to his unmarked car.

He asks for my DL, which I hand over to him, and he returns to his car to do his stuff. At this point I am only thinking, "Man, I'm gonna miss the previews." I love the previews

He comes back to me and asks me where the gun is. I lead him to my minivan (also informing him that I carry a shotgun there) as he attempts to radio for backup (he seemed to be having difficulties working his radio) . I hand him the key when another officer finally shows up after ten minutes.

Okay, this is where it gets good. As they set to searching my van, officers start to trickle to the scene. Eventually, there are about a dozen officers on the scene (must have been a slow night). As I'm sitting on the curb as they ordered, and they start to pass around my Beretta PX4 Storm (admiring the sights) and pistol-grip Mossberg 500, they ask me one by one, "what were you thinking carrying a gun?"

Now, I have been led to believe that open carry was perfectly legal in Louisiana. But no, apparently I was mistaken. Or at least that's what nearly every officer on the scene repeatedly told me while I sat there shaking my head in disbelief.

Anyway, they arrest me, they stuff me in a holding cell with about fifty others, and all the while I'm never told with what they are charging me. After about eighteen hours (after they printed and processed me), they release me without a word (but with a court date). My court day is in a week, I can hardly wait.

So, that was my first open carry story

 

[Cmdr. Gravez0r]

At the risk of stating the obvious...

NEVER CARRY WITHOUT KNOWING THE LAW FOR YOURSELF.

 

[comfortador]

Oh, I forgot to mention I later discovered what they were charging me with: negligent carrying of a concealed handgun-even though I was open carrying.

And while I may be schizophrenic, I am pretty sure I am not completely out of touch with reality: Louisiana is an open carry state, is it not? Have I hallucinated everything I have read on the subject? Please don't tell me that

 

[Samuel Adams]

Try this.

http://opencarry.org/

 

[moojpg2]

smooth move:banghead:

hind sight is always twenty twenty, but you should have just left, got in your car and went home, the rude confrontation with the manager would have certainly tipped me off as to what his next course of action was.

And never, ever consent to a search of your vehicle.

Good luck beating the (phony) charge. Open carry is indeed legal in Louisiana from what I've read.

 

[buck00]

My first reaction was "duh" that was dumb... but then I checked this out:

http://opencarry.org/

Louisiana

Summary
Louisiana is a traditional open carry state. They have complete state preemption of firearms laws with the exception that laws in place prior to the passage of preemption are allowed to remain in place.

Minimum Age to OC 17

Preemption Complete state preemption of firearms law except that ordinances in effect prior to preemption appear to still be in effect and localities can still regulate the carrying of firearms in:

-Certain commercial establishments
- Public buildings

Open Car Carry You may open carry in a vehicle.

So, according to this you can legally open carry at 18. Sure, the movie theater had a right to ask you to leave but you didn't break a law by open carrying into the theater initially.

However, I am a little surprised by your optimistic and nonchalant attitude about this. It sounds like you could have a legal headache looming if you don't go into this with your guard up. It may be worth it to hire a lawyer- a little money spent now might save you grief later. All it takes is the wrong judge to interpret the law his way and for you to go down for this. If you have a lawyer there you can make sure they at least play clean.

Good luck...


* And yes, you sort of skimmed over the part about you giving consent to search your car. You should have denied them permission (yes its your right).

 

[comfortador]

Yeah, unfortunately I'll be going at it with an if-you-cannot-afford-an-attorney attorney. But I'm still pretty sure that the DA will refuse the case.

Also, I never gave them permission to search my car; I just didn't tell them to stop because they were getting uh...slightly angry with me-even though I was very cooperative-and I didn't really want to be tased for being "uncooperative."

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

Does the "concealed" part have anything to do with the car? I say this because Michigan has no law against open carry, but it's "concealed" if you open-carry in a car. When is your preliminary exam? If there is no law that makes what you did illegal, the judge is obligated to dismiss the charge. Keep us posted.

Also, I never gave them permission to search my car

If they had probable cause to believe evidence was in the car (you told them, manager told them you said you'd lock it in there, etc.), they didn't need permission to search it.

Cop bashing begins in 3, 2, 1...

 

[Zedicus]

Cop bashing begins in 3, 2, 1...

Why does someone ALLWAYS have to play that Card.....:banghead:

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

'Cause it always happens

 

[comfortador]

I didn't think they needed permission to search my vehicle at that point. I think my date is on the eighth.

And also, Louisiana does have open carry in cars. I even heard one cop say,"no, that's perfectly legal," in regards to that. They spent at least forty-five minutes trying to come up with a charge. I guess they finally settled on the negligent concealed carry thing.

I'll definitely keep everyone posted on new details as they arise.

 

[Zedicus]

Hang in there dude.

It just me or does this make the issue of the NOLA Confiscations etc resurface anew?

 

[Larry E]

In Montana a person can (theoretically) carry openly, BUT it's probably not a wise thing to do in a built up area unless a person wants to spend a bunch of time and money with lawyers. On the other hand a loaded firearm concealed or otherwise is legal in a vehicle in Montana, and open or concealed carry outside of towns, railroad or mining camps without a permit of any kind. In WA concealed carry anywhere requires a permit, open carry is theoretically legal, but if you have a loaded firearm in a vehicle you'd best have it on your person and also have a concealed carry permit. Laws are strange, and their interpretation is even stranger from location to location and person to person.

Know the law, and just because something is legal doesn't mean it should be done. This may sound like candya** advice, but life is much easier and less expensive by being ever so slightly circumspect in our actions. There's no harm done by being careful, something it's taken me nearly all my 66 years to figure out.

 

[Tommygunn]

My first reaction was "duh" that was dumb... but then I checked this out:

http://opencarry.org/

According to this, Alabama is an open carry state ... yet, I need a permit and need to carry concealed.
Maybe the same wierd legal shenanigans here as in louisiana . . . ????

 

[Tribal]

How is doing something completely legal "probable cause?" They have probable cause to believe that I have seatbelts in my car; that doesn't mean they have the authority to open it up and search.

Sounds to me like you have a claim for illegal detention, illegal search and seizure, and possibly intentional infliction of emotional distress. Talk to a lawyer (the initial consultation is usually free) and have him mention these things to the DA. It'll probably only be a phone call on his part and will probably be cheaper than court costs.

Of course, I Am Not A Lawyer (yet).

 

[Zedicus]

According to this, Alabama is an open carry state ... yet, I need a permit and need to carry concealed.
Maybe the same wierd legal shenanigans here as in louisiana . . . ????

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum59/

Judging by this, It would seem that Alabama Police are about the same as Louisiana Police on OC.

IE: They Either Don't know it's Legal, Or Don't Care if it is Legal and simply want to "Make an Example" of Anyone who tries it with nonsense charges.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

How is doing something completely legal "probable cause?"

It just depends on exactly what information the officers had from the accused, the witnesses, and their own observations.

Comfortador, do you know the exact cite code for the charge? Does it say anywhere on your court paperwork? Perhaps then we could read the exact text of the law you allegedly broke.

 

[rmhymel]

Hey I'm 20 and I live in Metairie. Were these JPs or Harahan cops that you had an encounter with? I've never dealt with Harahan PD but it sounds like something JPs would do.
Over on the OC forum there is a guy from LA who had something similar happen in Gonzales. Apparently he's working on a federal civil rights lawsuit.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

It just depends on exactly what information the officers had from the accused, the witnesses, and their own observations.

Yes, and according to the OP, his pistol and holster were plainly visible by everyone, including the manager.

Anyway, here's the relevant cite:

§1382. Negligent carrying of a concealed handgun

A. Negligent carrying of a concealed handgun is the intentional or criminally negligent carrying by any person, whether or not authorized or licensed to carry or possess a concealed handgun, under the following circumstances:

(1) When it is foreseeable that the handgun may discharge, or when others are placed in reasonable apprehension that the handgun may discharge.

(2) When the handgun is being carried, brandished, or displayed under circumstances that create a reasonable apprehension on the part of members of the public or a law enforcement official that a crime is being committed or is about to be committed.

B. It shall be within the discretion of the law enforcement officer to issue a summons to a person accused of committing this offense in lieu of making a physical arrest. The seizure of the handgun pending resolution of the offense shall only be discretionary in the instance where the law enforcement officer issues a summons to the person accused. If the law enforcement officer makes a physical arrest of the person accused, the handgun and the person's license to carry such handgun shall be seized.

C. Whoever commits the offense of negligent carrying of a concealed handgun shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned without hard labor for not more than six months, or both. The adjudicating judge may also order the forfeiture of the handgun and may suspend or revoke any permit or license authorizing the carrying of the handgun.

Acts 1996, 1st Ex. Sess., No. 4, §1, eff. April 19, 1996.

Sounds kinda bogus to me, but I wasn't there. Good luck.

 

[Tribal]

Based on what Sage of Seattle posted, it looks as though they're trying to claim that you were trying to conceal your handgun but were so bad at it that everyone saw it, which is a reach of a charge if I've ever heard one. The good news is that they have to prove intent to find you guilty, and that's hard. They have to prove that you meant to conceal the weapon; if you were wearing it in a holster and it wasn't partially covered by a jacket or shirt then you've got a really good argument.

That said, it sounds as though your civil rights have been violated. They didn't take your guns, did they?

 

[jakemccoy]

Comfortador,

I've got much respect for you - bold move with the open carry. It appears you did not commit any felony with respect to your guns in the car. Get a lawyer and try to work it - good luck. Next time, make it clear that you're not consenting to a search.

What movie did you miss?

-Jake

 

[ants]

Just a thought...

He then informs me, somewhat rudely, that the theater has a no weapons policy. It turns out they have a smallish sign on the bottom corner of a door that I have never seen anyone use in my many years going to this theater.

Since the theater is private property, and they had a no-weapons rule (it doesn't matter that no one uses that particular door, nor that you didn't see the sign, it was posted legally) I would bet the negligent carry charge is related to trespassing. In addition, the manager called the police to complain about your violation of their policy, which leads to...

When the handgun is being carried, brandished, or displayed under circumstances that create a reasonable apprehension on the part of members of the public or a law enforcement official that a crime is being committed or is about to be committed.

The crime, of course, is trespassing. That's what you committed by entering their property with a weapon.
Ask your attorney about that. Maybe he can explain better.

 

[ants]

I gotta tell ya, friend, it's a whole lot better to be smart than to be in a mess o' trouble. You didn't intend to do anything wrong, but you sure got yourself in deep. Now, that wasn't very smart, was it?

The big mistake is to misunderstand "open carry". Just because Louisiana is 'open carry' doesn't mean you can carry everywhere with impunity. You cannot carry on private property if the property owner prohibits it.

 

[ants]

Final thought, my friend. Maybe your attorney (and I certainly hope you get what you pay for) can plea down to a very small minor violation and do some community service for the theater. If you get convicted on a weapons charge, you can kiss your 2nd Amendment rights goodbye. And you don't want to do that. So ask your attorney if there are creative alternatives to keeping your rights.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

The crime, of course, is trespassing. That's what you committed by entering their property with a weapon.

Still a reach, IMHO. He was asked to remove the handgun from the premises, he did so and, again, according to the OP, nothing was said about trespassing in the first place by the manager.

Also, apparently he so far hasn't even been charged with trespassing, which (again IMHO) would have to kinda be a prerequisite charge -- the foundation for the weapons charge. If he in fact "is committing or is about to commit" a crime, then the weapons charge would be stuck on top. A poor analogy might be that a person walked up to a man in the park, pulled back his jacket threateningly, took his money and only got charged with a weapons violation and not the robbery itself.