Pretty sure I got a frivolous ticket because I was carrying...

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Desperado

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First off, let me say I didint think this really belonged in legal and political, but if it does, please move and I apologize.

Anyway, yesterday I was drinving to the range to shoot my new rifle and on the way, some woman driving blocks the left lane waiting to make a u turn. She probably had 8 or 10 cars backed up for a minute and we were all gettin aggravated so when she finally made the turn, I flipped her off and went on my way. Should I have done it? no. Was it very mature of me? no. It was one of those slightly road rage irritations that gets us all off once in a while. But a mile or two down the road, I get pulled over by an unmarked sherrifs car. When he came up he told me I got pulled over because I flipped the lady off and asked for my information. I gave it to him, and of course, told him I had the gun and gave him my CHL. He had me get out of my truck, took my gun (which I figured he'd do), then had me keep my hands on the back while he went back to his car. He was talking to me about how it worries him that I have a temper like that and Im carryong a gun. He was saying garbage like "as a citizen, Im concerned that your carrying and you do stuff like that." Anyway, in the end, he ended up giving a ticket for disorderly conduct:what:. I dont know about yall, but Ive seen a whole lot of fingers fly in Texas, and it irritates me even more that he let the lady go that backed up traffic to make a u turn where she shouldnt. Not only was I mad, I was insulted that he basically said since I flipped someone off, Im a danger to lose my head and shoot someone. As I said, it was wrong of me, but to get a ticket for the finger? Sounds like this guy was really bored.
 
"as a citizen, Im concerned that your carrying and you do stuff like that."
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I am concerned as well (especially with a screen name like "Desperado"). I won't go so far as to say that you shouldn't be carrying (though it did cross my mind), but I think you should re-evaluate your reasons for doing so.

Ive seen a whole lot of fingers fly in Texas
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Doesn't matter what you saw other people do, it doesn't mean it's alright for you to do it. The CCW community would have been crucified if someone you flipped off pulls a gun and you respond by shooting them. When one carries a gun, you must be the quietest, humblest, most even-tempered person in the room - no exceptions.

Should you have gotten a ticket? Maybe. I wasn't there.

Should you have been carrying and flipping people off? Certainly not.

Did you put all Texans' carry rights in danger by carrying and flipping people off? Absolutely.
 
When you carry, you have a whole new set of rules to follow.

I'm not saying you deserved the ticket and I fear for the implications it will have for you down the road.

Can you dispute it in court?

There are those among us that are nannies, they care more about what you think than what you do. You getting a ticket for showing your displeasure which affected no one over another person's illegal manuver (ignored by police) that affected other people in real time demonstrates the point.

Fight the ticket, learn a lesson, don't repeat the mistake then go forth and sin no more my son.
 
I understand that I shouldnt have done it, but I find it ridiculous that I got a ticket for it. And as far carrying, I mainly do it it whne Im going to the range and other places. I dont do it full time.
 
Find out if the law actually allows flipping off to be counted as "disorderly conduct" in your state. Fight the ticket. And just don't go around flipping people off like that.
 
Yeah, she shouldn't have done what she did. She was stupid.

Neither should you have. You escalated.

Be thankful you only got a ticket, and not an incident that escalated from your one-finger salute to you getting cornered by an angry Idiot Driver in a situation where you'd have little choice but to crash, to brawl or to shoot to defend yourself ... and then face some very serious legal consequences indeed. There's little legal protection for a "willing participant" in such events, nor should there be.

The officer did you a favor. Next time, don't escalate.

pax
 
Well he pulled you over for it before knowing you were carrying, so chances are you would have gotten the ticket anyway. I don't personally think you should get a ticket for flipping somebody off but that's not the issue here.

Go home, flip yourself off in the mirror, and then, DON'T EVER DO IT AGAIN. That phase of your life is now over forever. If you provoke an attack with a rude gesture and are required to use deadly force to stop it, your "innocent victim" status will be questioned during your trial.
 
I used to be the same way. I have since obtained my CHL. It has had the exact opposite effect that the blissninnies said it would.
I am now even, calm, and am polite to everyone. That doesn't mean I have let my guard down. It's almost Hannibal Lecter ish the calm I am experiencing.
 
Fight the ticket. If in fact he did give you the ticket for the finger its bunk. While I'm normally one to advocate being calm and such, if flipping someone the bird doesn't fall under freedom of expression than I don't know what does.
 
I plan on fighting it. I talk to an attorney that helped me out before. I dont even think the cop would show to court for this, but you never know.
 
In Texas, it's not.

So has ruled the State Court of Appeals.

But, they'll still try to get him to plead guilty unless he can show he knows the law.


http://www.3rdcoa.courts.state.tx.us...pinionID=12238
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Then that's good news for him. I suggest to the original poster to get a lawyer if he doesn't know enough about the law, if he wants to keep his CC ability in Texas.

ETA: looks like I was typing this while you responded Desperado. Good luck...
 
In 1998 (maybe it has changed now) a friend of mine in Dallas flipped off some woman on the street and at dinner time two cops showed up at his house, put him in handcuffs and took him to jail in front of his two young children. He was charged with simple assault and I believe that was later plead down to DC.

I have never given anyone the finger since
 
Your not the only one who feels that way. Hell last saturday (first day of bow season) I was walking down the street to my buddies house carrying my bow while I was in full archery gear and some a**hole called the cops on me. :barf: I had to get harrased by some self important cop for 20 min before he would let me go. All for doing something completely legal. :fire:
 
I just can't believe you got pulled over for flipping someone off. Did the cop see you do it or did the lady call you in? I've never heard of that happening, ever.

Dope
 
Dope

Thats what he said. I pretty sure she didn't see me and he even said she held him up in traffic too. I didn't even know they gave tickets for that. Obviously, I wont do it again. Even if I win, its not worth the hassle of going through court and what not.
 
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If you provoke an attack with a rude gesture and are required to use deadly force to stop it, your "innocent victim" status will be questioned during your trial.
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Anything can be questioned, but that doesn't mean the questioning will go far. There were doctrines at law (defenses to charges of assault) concerning fighting words (and by implication, fighting gestures). However, these tend to have been specifically eliminated. So, if the matter came up, a good attorney should be able to get a jury instruction that a gesture or word in no ways justify a deadly assault against the victim.
 
Not only was I mad, I was insulted that he basically said since I flipped someone off, Im a danger to lose my head and shoot someone.
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NO, that is your interpretation of what he said. I think it is more likely that he was thinking along the lines of what most of us here are thinking, which I will outline for you now:

I do not looking at you as a hothead who has the capacity to murder someone out of anger. I don't feel that you flipping someone off indicates to me anything other than you have the capacity to flip someone off when angry. However, there is an angle to this that I feel you are not considering. As someone who carries, you have an obligation to avoid all confrontations at almost any cost. You have to be willing to take insults if they are offered, walk away, and avoid escalating the situation if at all possible. This means you don't flip people off in traffic.
You escalated the situation by your actions and choices. You chose to make the situation more tense, more emotional, and more prone to violence. Why you did that is something you need to identify and squash. You were gambling that you would win the pissing match and the other person would not escalate further than you. This is not a wise, especially when your final option involves the other guy dead or bleeding.
If the cop saw your finger out the window, then anyone could have seen it. What if the car behind you contained the son of the U-Turning lady, a guy with a bad attitude and a penchant for knifing people that flip off his mama?

Deescalate, never escalate.


With that said, I hope you are able to fight the ticket, so long as you see this moment as the learning opportunity that it is.
 
Disorderly conduct? This is a load.

What kills me here, is not that Desperado got ticketed per se, but that selective enforcement is being applied. I see people throw the bird every single day all the time everywhere and nothing is done about it.

Unless you enforce a law constantly, at all times, on everybody who is legally competent, it shouldn't be a law.

Also, some of you people need to wake up and realize this needs to be fought even if you're not sympathetic to his story. Yes, I realize that ethically you incur a whole new set of behaviors when you strap on an instrument of lethal force be it a knife, gun, etc., but carrying is an inherent right, not a privilege granted us by a magic piece of plastic from the state of Texas. It might not help the RKBA case if people who have CHLs are rude, but it's a right not a special privilege we only bestow on the meek and perfect. You don't lose your right to freedom of speech, Mirand rights, or RKBA for being rude. A right has to be preserved for everybody, even people we don't feel sympathetic towards.

Desperado, wish I could help you.
 
Yes you did get special treatment because you had a CHL.

As a Police officer, i don't think he was much in the wrong. He didn't have time to make friends with you and see about your temper/responsibilities. If i saw you on the street flipping off a lady because of traffic then, i would have never guessed you to be a CHL holder. I'm not saying in any sense that i dont think you should have one, its just in general i think more of CHL holders.

We are on The High Road.

goodluck!
 
There's this thing on the steering wheel called a horn. Call me crazy but flipping someone off is not a very good indicator of civility.

I don't know. I would never flip off a woman. No matter what craziness she may have visited upon me. Just not right in my opinion.
I think the cop should've just gave you a written warning at most.
 
My goodness...

I don't feel that you flipping someone off indicates to me anything other than you have the capacity to flip someone off
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Me too. That's rediculous. When I took my 8hr class to get a ccw, no one ever mentioned that; you're not allowed to flip people off anymore without having to get a lawyer. No one should ever flip anyone off, but that's not the point. I'd fight that with everything you got. What a waist of your time, I feel for ya.
 
Go home, flip yourself off in the mirror, and then, DON'T EVER DO IT AGAIN. That phase of your life is now over forever. If you provoke an attack with a rude gesture and are required to use deadly force to stop it, your "innocent victim" status will be questioned during your trial.
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+1 SPECTRE

You're playing with fire flipping people off while you're carrying. Bad idea. And as you already acknowledged, it's not very High Road to go around flipping off the ladies. Oh well, lesson learned and I hope it works out for you.
 
As a Police officer, i don't think he was much in the wrong
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It is either against the law or not. "as a police officer" is it or is it not against the law to flip someone off?
 
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