Pretty sure I got a frivolous ticket because I was carrying...

[spocahp anar]

*** was the whole deal of placing your hands opn the car and don't move while I go to my car BS about. He already disarmed you and you were clearly forthcoming with the CCW so why be an ***** about it? Flipping someone off is a far step from popping little old ladys off. Flipping someone the bird should not be a punishable offense as I cannot see how this lady's constitutional rights were violated by your action. This cop has nothing better to do than eat doughnuts and pester citizens if he gave you a ticket for that.

Of course I wasn't there and don't know if your demeanor was pleasant which plays a big part in any situation.

 

[Desperado]

As far as my demeanor goes, I feel I was very polite. I did what I was suppossed, I didnt smart off or anything (learned from friends and family cops thats not smart).

 

[kurtmax]

A charge for flipping someone off? What bs...

Seriously... how can any of you think that if you flip someone off you shouldn't carry a firearm. Both are rights.

That said, I've never flipped someone off before. Not because I think it would be evil, but I generally don't get mad at other drivers much. I'm pretty patient when I'm driving and generally am the one getting flipped off because I stop at stop signs and drive the speed limit....

To deal with tailgaters I normally flip my parking lights on so they think I've applied brakes....

Oh, and I'm gonna have to try that 'goofy face with thumbs up' thing. That's awesome.

 

[MT GUNNY]

At first I thought no harm I prolly would have done the same,
After reading some posts I feel I should check my self while out and about.
After all being a peace officer should be about keeping the peace, Not giving an old lady a ticket cuz she cant make a proper u turn.
Fight the ticket so you dont loose your ccp, Then continue the path of
what one previos poster said Hannibal Lecter ish calm...

 

[wideym]

Get a rope boys! No punishments good enough for such a horrible crime.

Let's get a grip people. The "he deserved it" crowd sound just like the "zero tolerance" groupies out there.

The fact that he had weapons and didn't show them or threaten anyone flies in the face of the antis.(Everyone knows gun owners are unstable and likely to shoot at the slightest provocation, Riiight?)

 

[SSN Vet]

(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace

I'm disapointed none of our Lone Star State friends didn't address whether "thems fightin' words (gestures)" or not.

I'm no lawyer, but...
I was always under the impression that cursing someone out was assault, and laying hands on them was battery.....

this garbage that thinks the first amendment entitles you to say anything you want to anybody at any time is ....well, I just said it....garbage.

Personally, I think if more people got there noses bloodied over shooting off their big mouths, we would all live in a kinder more respectful society.

 

[Broadhead]

In the quoted 42.01 is the phrase "offensive gesture". I wonder if that has a legal definition elsewhere in the statutes. A frown, sneer, or derisive laugh could be considered offensive.

 

[geojap]

Seriously... how can any of you think that if you flip someone off you shouldn't carry a firearm. Both are rights.

I don't think that the actual act of flipping the bird at someone was the primary cause of concern for the cop or anyone else (although that will not win you any Brownie points here in Texas).

The main cause of concern was his apparent aggressiveness and the fact that Desperado didn't de-escalate the incident. In Texas we take mandatory courses to get our CHL, where we learn the more crucial points of defensive firearms use and the relevant laws. We are taught to de-escalate incidents, so that we have the more defensible position than the other party while we explain ourselves before the police/grand jury/judge/jury.

Manners and respectable behavior aside, this is a matter of base practicality and I hope that this is not lost on anyone. If one ignores this and acts with a cavalier attitude regardless of the way courts work in the real world, I can't help but think that one is simply making life harder on themselves.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Even if I win, its not worth the hassle of going through court and what not

I don't condone your action, but...

Yes it is. It may not seem like it today. But in five years or ten years when you are having to explain that misdemeanor conviction on your record for the umpteenth time, you'll wish you had taken the time and spent whatever it costs to fight it. It could be even worse than that. As some have said, it might affect your CCW qualification or a job or other thing you want to do down the road. It is not a "ticket." It is a crime you have been charged with. You could have been arrested on the charge, but you were given a notice to appear. That is what that piece of paper is; not a mere "ticket."

Fight it. The law appears to be crystal clear. Make sure your lawyer has a copy of the case linked above. Learn your lesson from the incident, but fight the charge.

 

[Mainsail]

I don’t think anyone here wants to lynch the guy. Personally, I think he ought to go to court and fight it. Nevertheless, his actions were boorish and immature. The cop wrote the ticket because he felt it was deserved.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

Absolute garbage, and yet another chip in my now almost non-existent respect for 'law enforcement'.

The woman driving is the one who did something that could potentially harm others. Who does a one finger salute harm?

What a pathetic misappropriation of resources. I'm sure there were more constructive things that cop could have been doing.

Make sure to give us an update, D.

 

[Crunker1337]

I can say with 100% certainty you got nailed with disorderly conduct because you were carrying.

That said, what did you expect the cop to do? Put yourself in his shoes. You see someone lose his temper a little bit and find out he's carrying a gun. I wouldn't go so far to say you should stop carrying, but you should really try to be more in control of your emotions at all times.

I don't think the cop did anything wrong, but your actions were immature. Use this as a lesson and try to be more courteous to everyone, even while driving.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I carry daily. I don't make a habit of causing confrontations, either by word or gesture. With that said, I'll also say that from the facts given; What a crock of fecal matter!

Desperado, were you informed of the evidence against you that caused the citation to be written? Was it a word of mouth phone in? Did somebody video you? Did the officer himself see you do it? My advice is to not only get an attorney, see if you can't find one that will humiliate the officer to the point that that person concentrates on the necessary rather than the percieved.

900F

 

[geojap]

Absolute garbage, and yet another chip in my now almost non-existent respect for 'law enforcement'.

Please don't apply that here. In Texas, our law enforcement agencies are some of the finest in the country. The Texas Department of Public Safety State Troopers in my opinion are the finest in the country, bar none. The Texas Rangers ARE the law here, and every Ranger I have ever met in person was a someone who commanded respect by his demeanor and actions, not through empty words.

 

[planetmobius]

You need to check the laws in Texas and fight the ticket. In Wisconsin the "bird" has actually been deemed an expression of free speech and protected byt the 1st amendment. Typically, discorderly conduct is defined by some action that tends to incite some type of disturbance. (the reaction of the cop does not count) If the woman kept driving, I'm not sure where the disturbance is. Also, the cop generally needs soem type of probable cause to make the traffic stop in the first place. I'm not sure that flipping someone off meets that criteria. Check it out.

 

[RPCVYemen]

He was saying garbage like "as a citizen, Im concerned that your carrying and you do stuff like that."

Good call by the officer - I would be concerned to. If you are willing to make an obscene provocative gesture to someone who had done absolutely nothing to you, what will you do if provoked?

You took a situation where no aggression existed, and escalated it. That's the opposite of what we are supposed to do when armed.

If you were 13 and flipped the bird at someone, that would be no big deal. You can act 13, or you can carry a concealed legal weapon, you can't do both.

You're an adult male making a gesture that would likely start a fight with another adult male - oh, you were picking on a woman, so that's OK. If it was a guy, and you'd flipped the bird at him, what would have been his expected response?

How many road rage incidents do you think start with two guys flipping the bird at one another when "when he cut me off", or "he was following too close"?

A lot of people like the Heinlein quote, "An armed society is a polite society." One of the implications of that is the when you're armed, you need to be polite.

You should be thanking the officer, not calling what he said "garbage."

Mike

 

[MachIVshooter]

If she made an illegal U-turn, You should bring it up in court that the officer ignored a blatent traffic violation. Still should have just shook your head or cursed her under your breath. It's not like she cut you off or tailgated you for miles on end.

If it was NOT an illegal U-turn, what you did was definitely foolish and immature. If she couldn't go, she couldn't go. Better you and the other 8 drivers wait for the next light than her cause an accident trying to cross oncoming traffic when she shouldn't. If she was holding back when there was plenty of time to go, that's why we have horns.

 

[wideym]

An armed society is a polite society doen't mean if You are armed then You are always polite. It means assume the Other guy is armed and my take offence with your bad manners.

 

[geojap]

In the interest of fairness, I just explained the whole situation to my girlfriend to get her response. She is from Hong Kong and is a devout capitalist (American capitalism is nothing compared to Hong Kong). Her parents actually escaped from communist China (after being jailed a few times for a few years) in the 1970s and now she works as an office manager in the legal department of a state agency. She has a masters degree and teaches at the local community college after work as well.

She was adamant that even though there may be other circumstances involved, the bottom line is that in her opinion, Desperado received different treatment because he had a CHL, different than a non-CHL would have received, and therefore the ticketing was not right, no matter what other circumstances existed.

She is very logical and I often bounce things off her like this to see how she responds.

 

[Mainsail]

Maybe the 'little old lady' was really a cop in disguise looking for agressive drivers.

 

[bogie]

I'm guessing that the cop also wanted to impart an OBJECT LESSON. He wanted you to learn from the experience. He wanted to embarrass you into behaving like a mature adult.

Frankly, I don't drive around flipping people off. I also have stuff like NRA stickers on my vehicle, so I smile and wave for folks to go ahead, etc. I'm a nice guy.

 

[Desperado]

I did learn a hard lesson here and it wont happen again. As far as the other driver, all I know is she was a woman. The cop is the one that said it was a woman, I didnt know til I got pulled. As Ive been thinkin about, I think bogie might be right and that he was giving a hard lesson more than actually writing me up. But I am getting a lawyer to fight it because I dont want anyone to see a DC on my record. I guarentee anyone that sees will think the worst of it and I cant have that on there.

 

[Legion1776]

She was holding up traffice, blocking the lane. There was nowhere to turn left, so she had traffice stopped.

Sounds like she was obstructing a highway a class B misdemeanor. Whats a DC? Class C? When you get him on the stand ask why he ignored the greater offense.


http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/42.03.00.html

 

[Danus ex]

Fight the ticket. This is baloney.

I hate when people think that any hint of aggression means that you're a potential mass murderer.

And escalation? What was the bad driver (who was stopped and holding up traffic) gonna do? Decide then to move and drive after you, specifically, and try to run you off the road?

 

[hso]

Desperado has already admitted it was wrong and immature of him to behave in such a manner.

I flipped her off and went on my way. Should I have done it? no. Was it very mature of me? no.

He has said he won't do it again.

I did learn a hard lesson here and it wont happen again... Even if I win, its not worth the hassle of going through court and what not.

While he understands he was in the wrong he intends to fight the ticket.

I did it and it was wrong, I just dont think a disorderly conduct ticket is necessary.

Until he has his day in court I can't see much benefit in this thread staying open.