Pretty sure I got a frivolous ticket because I was carrying...

[Brad Johnson]

The man made a mistake, and in the grand scheme of things, it's a pretty small mistake.

When you agree to a CHL, you agree to a higher standard of conduct. Under that higher standard, a "small mistake" is no longer acceptable.

Brad

 

[Schutzen]

Just a curiosity question, is making a U-turn illegal in Texas? It is here. That would definitely be selective enforcement.

 

[Desperado]

She was holding up traffice, blocking the lane. There was nowhere to turn left, so she had traffice stopped.

 

[barnetmill]

People flip me off all of the time. It makes me angry but I never respond. I just make sure my gun is ready and I kept my eye on them if their car is still within my sight. I drive at the speed limit and do not normally exceed the limit like the majority of other drivers. I stop for red lights. Never get tickets. I think that people that flip other people off because they did not turn fast enough should not be allowed to carry guns and I have strong doubts about them even possessing hunting weapons.

Speak softly and carry a big stick.

 

[Pax Jordana]

People who don't really confront violence are the ones more apt to offend "just a little".

So you flip her off, she gets embarrassed, that's that. Right?

I dunno about you, but around here, people are fully willing to kill for their "rep".

When you do something like that, you're essentially saying "I'm angry at you, and I'm going to insult you, and you're not tough enough to try something in response." And to the cop, you're only acting with impunity because you're armed.

Now, in your defense, you were prepared to let that be that, but let's use a little forethought here: what if she wasn't? Have you ever been bitten by a dog, just a little? Doesn't hurt so much if you're the one doing the biting, but to be on the other end, just a little isn't so little at all.

 

[Mr. James]

Pretty sure I got a frivolous ticket because I was an immature, ill-mannered twerp

There, fixed it.

 

[IdahoFarmer]

First Amendment - flipping her off
Second Amendment - carrying the rifle

Your actions may have been ill advised, but I don't see how this warranted a ticket.

Seems like the cop made a bad decision as well.

Farmer

 

[Desperado]

Mr. James

Im not gonna dispute that because youre right. I was wrong and immature in doing it. But its rediculous. All the stuff they let go on around here and give me a ticket for that.

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

Brad Johnson said,
"When you agree to a CHL, you agree to a higher standard of conduct. Under that higher standard, a "small mistake" is no longer acceptable."

I agree completely that a CHL/CCW holder must adhere to this higher standard. But saying that a small mistake is no longer acceptable is just unrealistic. None of us, no matter how conscientious or well-trained, can be perfect all of the time. We must always strive to attain that higher standard of conduct, and certainly flipping someone off is a breach of that conduct.

However, nobody is dead, nobody is hurt, and Desperado is being charged, quite possibly unconstitutionally, for something that hurt nobody but himself, and from which I have no doubt he learned a very important lesson and will never do again. The chief value of mistakes is that we learn from them, so as not to repeat them. Are we so intolerant of small mistakes that we are willing to strip people of their rights to self-defense because of them?

 

[tkkr]

all he did was flick her off, its the raising of a middle finger that signifies ones displeasure with another person. its not like he went to ebay and purchased an ak47 thru paypal and shot up the local school.

keep in mind it was the woman that broke the law and could have caused an accident resulting in death. iv never heard of anyone dieing / sustaning extreme physical pain over the middle finger unless it was serrated and rubbed violently accross the opponents face

 

[noops]

Okay. Then I'd say you need to go back and read the Court of Appeals case earlier in the thread.

Seriously, at least follow the thread here. The appeals court ruling specifically deals with a similar case on this exact section of law.

 

[Mr. James]

Just joshin', Desperado - I'm sure you've beaten yourself up quite enough!

Cheers, and good luck with the citation, whichever way you decide to play it.

 

[Desperado]

Ya I have, and I know ethically this was not the thing to do and I dont plan on just going with it. I'll fight this thing and I wont be salutin anyone with one finger again.

 

[Im283]

Desparado I did not see you comments on this, did you read it?

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
...
(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

Texas Government Code § 411.172. ELIGIBILITY.
(a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a concealed handgun if the person:
...
(4) is not charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or of a felony under an information or indictment;

Dude you need to lawyer up with the best lawyer possible. Having recently been through the system to have a BS arrest dismissed and expunged i feel your pain. Find the best gun attorney in your area. Figure out a way to pay the fee and get the charge dismissed.

Do not do anything resembling taking your lumps and paying the fine like others here have advised you.

This may well cost you a lot of cash to get straightened out. But it will be money well spent in the long run.

 

[wdlsguy]

I notice this ruling is from the Third Court of Appeals, which appears to be a lower court than the Court of Criminal Appeals.

Does this ruling apply outside the jurisdiction of the Third Court of Appeals?

 

[Desperado]

Im283

I did see that and also saw the appeals court overturning a case that someone else posted. Ive got an attorney that has helped me out before and hes looking into it and I will talk to him today or tommorrow. Theres several reasons I dont want a DC on my record and I think this is one of the biggest BS ways to get one.

 

[Mainsail]

It was one of those slightly road rage irritations that gets us all off once in a while.

You’re trying to justify the action by false association. Yes, I get frustrated at times while driving. No, I don’t feel the urge to flip someone off. That’s called self control. Contrary to your statement, it doesn’t get all of us once and a while. Would I want someone flipping off my grandma? No. So why would I do it to someone else’s grandma?

I don’t see anything improper in what the trooper said to you, and I don’t think you got the ticket because you were armed. Your conduct was disorderly and he cited you for it.

 

[alligator94]

Okay, I think a disorderly conduct charge is way out of line here. Like it or not, free speech is protected by the Constitution (even if you do not like what is being said).

 

[03Shadowbob]

When you agree to a CHL, you agree to a higher standard of conduct. Under that higher standard, a "small mistake" is no longer acceptable.

Really? I must have missed that in the statutes.

fight it for principle. Just because you have a CCW doesn't mean you can't flip people off. From my understanding of the law flipping someone off is not a crime. Neither is telling a cop that his or her mother is a bucket for sailors. I am not saying you should do either of those though.
Personally, I used to flip people off all the time for doing stupid crap (South Florida=terrible northern drivers or illegal immigrants). Did it mean I was going to go on a shooting spree? Hell no. For anyone to suggest such is ludicrous. I stopped flipping people off mainly because I normally have my kids in the car with me and I figure they will learn how to do it soon enough with me helping them.

 

[zxcvbob]

It is either against the law or not. "as a police officer" is it or is it not against the law to flip someone off?

It is against the law, but the Court of Appeal has already ruled that the law does not apply in this narrowly-defined circumstance. That's not something that the cop would (or even should) know.

The ideal outcome of this is "Desperado" eventually is aquitted, but he learns a lesson from this that he would not have learned had he not gotten the ticket. How does that saying go... "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride"?

 

[wdlsguy]

the Court of Appeal has already ruled that the law does not apply in this narrowly-defined circumstance.

There are 14 Courts of Appeals in the State of Texas. For the sake of the OP, I hope this incident took place within the jurisdiction of the Third Court of Appeals.

http://www.courts.state.tx.us/courts/coa.asp

 

[hso]

I flipped her off and went on my way. Should I have done it? no. Was it very mature of me? no. It was one of those slightly road rage irritations that gets us all off once in a while.

Correct

Correct

Not correct. Not everyone acts like that. Some, yeah, but not everyone and not even the majority.

As to the ticket, go to court and challenge it. Tell it to the judge. See if the officer shows up to refute your statement that you'd just gotten annoyed and gave the lady the finger over her rude behavior. Tell us how that works for you.

 

[jerkface11]

What kind of nanny state do we live in that someone calls the police because they got flipped off? And since the cop didn't see it happen why didn't you just say you didn't do it?

 

[Big Boomer]

Hrmm...

was this an "out the window screaming one finger salute?" because if it was done from the inside of the vehicle and she was turning or turned, and the vehicle behind you couldn't see it then just how in the hell did they get your license plate number AND able to report it to the police?

Now besides facts and legal side, WHY should we be held to a higher standard? We already are! We passed background checks, cleared for mental health, fingerprinted, paid lotsa moola! And for what? All in order to exercise our 2A rights?!

For those of you who want more control from the government I'll buy you a one way plane ticket to China.

And NOW you want me to be nice all the time?! What about having a party with a few friends at the house on New Years and getting a bit blitzed at your own house? OMG that is not PC either? Better not be a smoker, or be an older guy married to a younger woman either.

Can't speak out against Hillary either you might be "against the people" and we wouldn't want our anti 2A people to think badly of us.

Let's look at it from another perspective, if we think that guns are evil, then we talk about guns being evil, if we believe guns are evil then we believe we should pass laws to rid the evil "guns".

So if we think we should not be allowed to cuss, drink, get upset, discipline, smoke, pray to Jesus, mix politics, education, etc. then "they" will pass laws to make sure just THAT does happen. After all we can't just simply EXPECT everyone to not kill each other right? Let's ban every possible thing to make us all safer!

A nice quote from one of the poster here sorry but I can't remember who it was "If total government control is so good, why are prisons so dangerous?"

 

[geojap]

I totally agree with the officer. As CHL holders, it is our duty to set the example and take the high road. De-escalation should always be our first reaction. I get very frustrated too on the road, trust me. But letting that anger or frustration affect our actions isn't an option for us at all. We have to always maintain composure and situational awareness so that we can make the proper decisions if needed.