Rebirth of the 32 ACP?

[jski]

This might help answer: Why the 32 ACP?

 

[jski]

Maybe in the not too distant future 32 APC will be a force in the Military/LE/SD world again but I'm not going to hold my breath. It's going to have to fill up the brass buckets at the range like 9x19 before I'm interested in loading and shooting 1200 rds a year. It has a long way to go to become a contender. Economy of scale is a thing. .223/5.56 is also my choice for a SD carbine for the same reason because I shoot a lot. I've sold thousands of pieces of brass to support my costs of shooting as much as I do.

Try reloading some of those pieces of brass!

 

[TTv2]

The laws of physics conspire against a small lightweight handgun that is easy to conceal, comfortable to carry, easy to shoot, capable of creating overwhelming and incapacitating damage to an assailant.

The problem I had with most 32 ACP rounds is all of the testing that was available to me showed .32 ACP bullets either expanding and stopping at 9 inches or less when run against the IWBA protocol, or zipping right out the back of 16 inch blocks of gelatin.

At least the Xtreme Cavitator punches a hole 13" to 14" deep through 4 layers of denim. With 32 ACP hollow points, I have no confidence that the bullets are going to reach critical organs. FMJ doesn't make much of a wound and they don't stop in the target - which is unacceptable to me. I don't think the Xtreme Cavitator in .32 is doing as much tissue damage as a quality 147gr 9mm round like HST or Ranger T-Series, but it does punch a hole 13" to 14" deep. That makes it tempting for me, it is not optimal but it does make it past the bare minimum for me, the bullets are capable of reaching critical organs and they generally don't leave the target.

I have no concerns of overpenetration with .32 ACP and I won't argue that more hollow points, if they expand, don't penetrate 12 inches. We don't have enough data to know if the solid copper Lehigh stuff is any better, but it does appear to be better/more damaging than round nose FMJ and hollow points that don't expand.

And the same could be said for almost all .380 ammo. .32 and .380 ACP equally suck, but I can suck less shooting .32.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Lehigh .32 ACP produces a temporary cavity that isn't large enough in diameter to produce permanent disruption of soft tissues.

 

[CDW4ME]

What gets posted is performance of 32 acp in gel, general advocacy.
What does not get posted is willingness or ability to carry a larger pistol and that is relative.

I want something I can throw into my pocket and walk out the door. Hence, the interest in 32 ACP.

There it is. I wish people would just state the truth like that more often.

If you look at those tests using the Lehigh/Underwood ammo, I think you might change your dismissive attitude about the 32 ACP.

Its not really about the performance of whatever 32 in gel its about convenience.
If you are content to defend your life with a 32 that is your preference.

No matter how good a 32 load is (Leigh/Underwood) that bullet tech is also available in 9mm.
If one is willing (able) to put forth more effort than something they can throw into pocket and walk out door they open their options (9mm).

 

[C0untZer0]

Sometimes convenience and laziness plays a part in what I carry. Winchester makes the 230gr +P Ranger-T (RA45TP) that penetrates to 15" and expands to around .78" through 4 layers of denim. It makes a helluva permanent wound cavity. On the weekends, I could carry a gun large enough to handle that cartridge but I don't. I just throw my 9mm pocket pistol in my pocket like I do Monday through Friday.

Monday through Friday I am in and out of offices, crawling under desks, and climbing up on step ladders and I cannot have anyone see that I am armed. I'd lose the client or maybe multiple clients. Karl and Eric Rohrbaugh made a pretty small handgun for the 9mm cartridge. The tests done by ShootingTheBull410 showed that from a 3" barrel, through 4 layers of denim, the 147gr Winchester Ranger T-Series penetrates 16.10" expanding on average to .448" so the R9 works for me. A gun that small can not be made for the 40 S&W or .45 ACP. Probably a gun that small could not be made for the 357 SIG.

But ease of shooting and speed of follow-up shots also plays a factor. I have the Remington RM380 that is basically the same size as the Rohrbaugh R9 and it is so much easier to shoot, so much easier to get back on target. A .32 ACP would be easier still. I purchased the R9 when I was convinced that there were no viable self defense rounds in .380 ACP and certainly nothing in .32 ACP. But I'm not convinced of that anymore.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Try reloading some of those pieces of brass!

The brass I sold was surplus. After you acquire 2-3K pieces of brass for any cartridge there is no point in hoarding it, especially when you can replenish the supply. Of course Covid put and end to the range brass but I have plenty to reload, trust me. I wouldn't be selling it if I didn't.

 

[CoalTrain49]

The problem I see with the Leigh/Underwood bullet is it isn't designed to expand. I'll take the expansion of 115 Hornady 9 mm Critical Defense ammo over a 32 solid any day. Penetration and expansion is the key for SD ammo.

 

[bersaguy]

Has anyone attempted a 32 Super Auto type round. I know there is 32 NAA, but thats a bottle neck 380, so the capacity advantage is lost, and the energy gain puts it not to far off the parent cartridge. I'm thinking a 7.65 x 19 or so. Maybe 32 Largo at 7.65 x 21. Something delivering a 75g projectile at 1300+ fps from an true rimless round.

 

[TTv2]

Has anyone attempted a 32 Super Auto type round. I know there is 32 NAA, but thats a bottle neck 380, so the capacity advantage is lost, and the energy gain puts it not to far off the parent cartridge. I'm thinking a 7.65 x 19 or so. Maybe 32 Largo at 7.65 x 21. Something delivering a 75g projectile at 1300+ fps from an true rimless round.

Pretty tough to get anything going 1300 fps from a barrel under 3 inches unless you like really high PSI and a deafening muzzle blast to boot.

.32 NAA checks all the boxes and is superior to both .32 ACP and .380 ACP... and nobody will ever buy it because nobody will ever make .32 NAA versions of the .380 guns they currently make because nobody outside of Hornady and Corbon make ammo for it. The biggest problem .32 NAA has is it's stuck in the Guardian pistols that NAA makes and those pistols, no matter how well they are made, are horrible to shoot and also pricey for what they are.

Whatever chance .32 NAA may have had thanks to Lucky Gunner and Brownell's making videos on the .32 caliber is totally gone thanks to this current ammo shortage where only .22 and 9mm seem to be available at high, but affordable prices.

If you want a .32 NAA your best best is to find someone willing to make a barrel for it in an LCP Max and reloading your own ammo. You really don't need to shoot more than 50 rds a month from pocket guns like the LCP or LCP Max to keep from losing the skill.

 

[C0untZer0]

The gun industry has a certain strange inertia to it. Cartridges can be made with better terminal ballistics than what John Browning ever created but they seldom get off the ground. The .327 Federal Magnum is about as close to a success story as there is, a least that I'm aware of. There were a lot of good things about 357 SIG but I don't think even SIG SAUER is making guns chambered in 357 SIG anymore.

 

[jski]

There it is. I wish people would just state the truth like that more often.



Its not really about the performance of whatever 32 in gel its about convenience.
If you are content to defend your life with a 32 that is your preference.

No matter how good a 32 load is (Leigh/Underwood) that bullet tech is also available in 9mm.
If one is willing (able) to put forth more effort than something they can throw into pocket and walk out door they open their options (9mm).

Couldn’t a 357 wheelgun man make the same dismissive statement about the 9mm? And please don’t make the nonsensical statement that “a 9mm is just as good as a 357”.

 

[C0untZer0]

Couldn’t a 44 Magnum wheelgun man make the same dismissive statement about the 357?

 

[jski]

Couldn’t a 44 Magnum wheelgun man make the same dismissive statement about the 357?

Not really because a 44 isn’t nearly as controllable as a 357, unless you’re shooting really mild loads and then you might as well be using a 357. Also, whereas I can get a K-frame or GP100 357, you’re pretty much limited to N-frame or Redhawk size wheelguns with a 44. You can even get a J-frame or LCR 357, even tho I wouldn’t fire a 357 from one.

So to sum it up: Nope, a 44 wheelgun man couldn’t make the same claim about 357s for self defense.

 

[Kleanbore]

Couldn’t a 357 wheelgun man make the same dismissive statement about the 9mm?

Not really.

 

[CDW4ME]

Couldn’t a 357 wheelgun man make the same dismissive statement about the 9mm? And please don’t make the nonsensical statement that “a 9mm is just as good as a 357”.

No, I do not think 9mm is just as good as 357 Mag.
However, revolvers are capacity deficient and please don't make the nonsensical statement that any civilian SD situation will be resolved in 6 rounds.

 

[jdh]

No, I do not think 9mm is just as good as 357 Mag.
However, revolvers are capacity deficient and please don't make the nonsensical statement that any civilian SD situation will be resolved in 6 rounds.

BUT, My 357 has the same capacity as my 1911. So the question becomes which is the most effective,8 rounds of 45 ACP or 8 rounds of 357?

 

[Kleanbore]

So the question becomes which is the most effective,8 rounds of 45 ACP or 8 rounds of 357?

How rapidly can you put them into the target?

That, by the way, was why I retired my .45.

 

[jski]

No, I do not think 9mm is just as good as 357 Mag.
However, revolvers are capacity deficient and please don't make the nonsensical statement that any civilian SD situation will be resolved in 6 rounds.

Quality vs quantity: the perpetual argument.

 

[Kleanbore]

Quality vs quantity: the perpetual argument.

Not on this. It is about probability.

 

[jski]

Not on this. It is about probability.

In the Miami-Dade shootout in 1986, had the FBI agent shot the Mini-14 toting bad guy (under his armpit) at the beginning with a 357 instead of a 9mm, GAME OVER. So yeah, quality does matter.

 

[Kleanbore]

n the Miami-Dade shootout in 1986, had the FBI agent shot the Mini-14 toting bad guy (under his armpit) at the beginning with a 357 instead of a 9mm, GAME OVER. So yeah, quality does matter.

Didn't say is doesn't, but that is how that one shot happened to hit. It was about chance.

 

[jdh]

How rapidly can you put them into the target?

That, by the way, was why I retired my .45.

Not as fast as I ustacould when I was more in practice. On a good day plate rack times are pretty similar.

 

[CDW4ME]

BUT, My 357 has the same capacity as my 1911. So the question becomes which is the most effective,8 rounds of 45 ACP or 8 rounds of 357?

8 rounds is a bit more toward my comfort zone, still I prefer a semiauto.

 

[jdh]

8 rounds is a bit more toward my comfort zone, still I prefer a semiauto.

Yeah but, at the end of the day on the range the revolver brass is all sitting on the shooting bench in 8 round clumps (moon clips) instead of that bending and stooping to collect 45 brass the pistol has seeded all about the range.