Shooter Snobbery

[NewShooter78]

Shooter Snobery

So I stopped into one of the local shops here (Barney's for those of you in the area) last night to buy another mag for my new purchase. I was kind of bumming it in some longish shorts, skate shoes, longish hair (but clean and kept in place by my ball cap), big t-shirt, and facial hair reminicent of a modern rock star (but not too crazy ). I also have my ears peirced, five times, and I've stretched the some of the holes a bit big. So much so that you can see through two of the holes. The guys behind the counter didn't give me any different looks because I had just picked up my new gun the day before. When I did I was wearing jeans, boots, polo shirt, and my ball cap. Basically I looked "normal".

So after I get my mag, I go to the check out counter behind another gent paying for a new Benelli shotty, and some accessories for it. He gives me this look of mild disgust as he sees me standing there behind him. And after I had paid for my goods, and was walking out, some of the other customers in the store kind of eyeballed me a little. More as an oddity I guess. But that first guy kind of got to me a bit.

I think of all of us shooters as one heck of an eclectic group. I know plenty of different kinds of people, and don't look twice at anyone in a gunstore. So why is it that some people just can't get over the way that someone looks, especially when you are around guns that just happen to be for sale? Like I'm some kind of thug going through the hassles of buying guns and accessories legally. If I had been in a record store, a movie theater, or the mall, I wouldn't even be noticed.

Any of you feel this way. Sorry about the rant, but crap like this always bothers me just a little bit.

 

[Justin]

Because plain and simple, some people are snotty jerks.

 

[jsalcedo]

I used to be a right wing hippie looking person.

Sandals, tie dyed shirt boonie hat patched up jeans, long hair.

It was comfortable attire.

Whenever I walked into a gunshop, bank, jewelry store I had to
pull out the Gold card to get service from anyone.

It was like they were trying to ignore me till I left.

Once they found out I was going to buy a $500 gun, $900 guitar
$3000 earrings for the wifes anniversary, they forgot I was dressed like
a low-life and buddied up with the yes sir no sir stuff.

Not to say I blame them too much because there are nasty hippies
who don't bathe, are drugged up, nasty attitude etc.. and there are bound to be predjudices against certain stereotypes even among decent people.

I modified my clothes somewhat, T-shirt, jeans,, baseball cap, boots.
So I wouldn't have to work so hard at getting service and to not attract the po po when I have 10 guns in the car going to the range.

 

[10-Ring]

Just forget about them!

 

[Dionysusigma]

Sorry about the rant, but crap like this always bothers me just a little bit.

Good. It's as wrong as racism, and nobody should be treated like they're less than someone else based solely on looks. I know the whole "If it looks like a duck..." spiel, but honestly folks--don't judge until you at least have a conversation with 'em. It's rude and annoying. Whether they're in boots, jeans and a cowboy hat; combat boots, black cargo pants, and a leather jacket w/ spikes; business suit; or in a burlap sack with old pieces of tire sewn together for shoes; whatever--the cowboy may be from Boston and never seen a real horse, the punk/ goth mighta been raised on a farm and can ride with the best of 'em, the businessman may have just embezzled tens of millions of dollars, and the old hobo-- in all possibility-- may be an angel of God.

Treat 'em all the same until you know them well enough to know better.

 

[P95Carry]

I do agree ... there is much snobbery out there but ... have to look at this another way too re gun shops and - maybe even public places too.

We do often I think, particularly when trying to apply situational awareness ... look for ''types'' (I know I ''notice'' some more than others) .... often those might be stereotypes ...... and for some groups we do associate less than good behavior. That maybe can raise a condition briefly from yellow to orange ..... ''just in case''.

I am not really ''Mr Smart'' ..... beard (VERY white! haha) - hair is a tad too long and behaves round back like ''wild professor'' ... jeans usually ''well used'' .... cap, ordinary shoes .... but I guess fairly average in the locality. On a biking day it may be leather jacket added and dew rag ... a tad more threatening maybe.

Overall tho I personally judge not just by the appearance but by behavior ... MUCH more reliable. So if I saw you New Shooter .... and you were polite, pleasant etc . I doubt your attire and piercings would bother me one bit ... like with bikers all over (mostly) ... there is to me a certain implied ''camaraderie'' amongst us shooters.

All that waffle said . i think many people do respond due to not just snobbery per se but .. their identification of what they see as a stereotype. Often this is unfair... and based on a far too superficial assessment and assumption.

 

[MessedUpMike]

Used to get mistaken for a skinhead all the time, I know the feelin'.:banghead:

I have an immediate knee jerk reaction to Bennelli shooters that not much more postive than the one he had for you. But I try to keep it under wraps as it's proven to be wrong more than once, but not all the time.
Some people for some reason need to be shown everyone isn't a dirtball before believing it. Some of us (myself occasionally) need to be reminded that we were once the wingnut we're not so sure about now. Some people just suck, and their best off ignored.

 

[Sunray]

Well, you don't see many guys with multiple earings in gun shops, but think about it this way. Long ago in TO, Gordon Lightfoot(Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, Black Day in July, et al) walked into the Rolls dealership in his jeans and a ratty old shirt etc. They wanted to throw him out. He left, but went back dressed differently. Bought a Rolls Silver Shadow. Paid cash, as I recall, to the same sales guy, then went home and wrote a song about it. Carry yourself like you own the place and when all else fails use the magic words. "Get the manager!"
Ran into the same kind of BS when I got stranded in Buffalo a few years back. Scumbag hotel clerk looked down his nose at me as I was asking about a room. Me in shorts, sandals, t-shirt. Sadly, I don't have a Gold Card. Would've loved to have taken it out. Oh and 4 days in Barfalo is a year in normal places. They roll up the sidewalks at 1730 during the week and absolutely nothing is open, downtown, after 12 on Saturdays. I still have nightmares about it.

 

[BlkHawk73]

I used to and at times still do get similar treatment. Not because of the manner in which I dressed but more so, I believe, because of my age. I kinda look younger han I am (30). My guess is that the clerk behind the counter and the patrons in front of the counter didn't seem it worth thier while to pay me any attention since the "young kid" can't know anything or afford anything. I also encountered this mentality at the gun club. Funny thing is that shop clerks changed thier attitudess when it was learned that by brother was one of thier fellow well-known FFL dealers. Non-dealers sometimes came around. Club members now turn to me for firearms questions. Bitter? no. I'm glad to offer them advice and answer thier questions. I do keep a mental record of what dealers could care less I had was in thier shop. Too bad. A few weeks ago, it cost KTP about $500.

 

[JohnKSa]

Sounds like you have made a real effort to ensure that you look very different.

It's not like you are a racial minority, or have a handicap, you've made a conscious decision to significantly alter your appearance. So that it's no longer "normal" to use your words.

Seem strange that you would be surprised that people notice your appearance. Also seems strange that you would be surprised that some people don't care for those types of alterations.

 

[BamBam]

Newshooter78,

I'm sure you're a good guy. The thing is, you probably wear all those earrings to get attention. They are a flag to signal others in your social group. Same goes with Armani suits, Carhart overalls, Birkenstock sandals or FUBU shirts.

What you experienced at the gun shop was social pressure. Same as if the guy with the Armani suit wandered onto a street corner occupied with a group of urbanites wearing FUBU shirts.

Not trying to be critical; just pointing out that raising a flag not only shows allegiance, it can also invite scrutiny from those who dont live under it.

 

[Bowlcut]

Well I heard the best explanation of the sorta same thing from the comedian Dave Chapelle. Talking about women dressing all "s|utty". How dress doesnt mean they are one. Its like if you wore a cop costume around and people ran up to you and say "sir can you help me"....you go "oh do the clothes make the person dont judge me by my clothes".

While not right, it happens. It sucks. I walk in a store in my norml weekend wear I get ignored. Baggy shorts, baggy shirt....as some would call "wigger" outfit. Its confortable and what ive wore for a long time. I get ignored or looked down on. I walk in with my polo shirts on and jeans or kahkis....no problem. Luckly the stores I frequent have become to know me and screw what I wear. guess you can do that in small towns... yet nashville trys to act small sometimes.

Ive delt with it for a long time. If its got too bad at a store I will ask for a manager and talk about how bad I was treated. Other than that, just blow it off to stupid people in the world

 

[Art Eatman]

The reaction to "otherness" is a built-in, genetic thing. Sure, any of us can train ourselves out of it, but it's still a basic reflex. Anybody who is outside the norm of a group is going to be noticed.

I have avoided a heckuva lot of hassles through a lot of years just because I've deliberately appeared as "Sammy Straight Arrow" in the eyes of speed cops, bureaucrats, store clerks and others who might otherwise waste my time.

But I had a boss who called me his "Short-haired Hippie."

Art

 

[Zach S]

I've noticed the same thing, since I look like a Hell's Angel most of the time. Not just in the gun shops, but everywhere.

Looking at the bright side though, I rarely have ppl bumping into me, no matter how crowded a store is.

 

[Hutch]

I think the last few posters have bracketed the target. Why is anyone surprised that they are treated as if they PROBABLY act like a member of the group whose "uniform" they wear? Not that you don't have the right to do so, but you should expect to be, at least initially, treated as if you ARE in fact what you present yourself as. You have a great deal of control over how you dress. Use it to your advantage. Wanna buy something upscale? Dress like you can afford it. Wanna kick it with the homeez? Feel free. But please, don't act put upon if the way YOU CHOOSE to present yourself has, ahhhh... repercussions. Doesn't make it right, but it makes it as predictable as the sunrise.

As I tell my kids, more bluntly: If you dress outrageously, you can expect to find that people get outraged.

 

[blades67]

He gives me this look of mild disgust as he sees me standing there behind him.

That is your perception, but unless you can read minds you have no idea what he was thinking. You dress the way you do to get a reaction. If you don't like the reaction others have, change the way you dress.

 

[Zach S]

I think the last few posters have bracketed the target. Why is anyone surprised that they are treated as if they PROBABLY act like a member of the group whose "uniform" they wear? Not that you don't have the right to do so, but you should expect to be, at least initially, treated as if you ARE in fact what you present yourself as. You have a great deal of control over how you dress. Use it to your advantage. Wanna buy something upscale? Dress like you can afford it. Wanna kick it with the homeez? Feel free. But please, don't act put upon if the way YOU CHOOSE to present yourself has, ahhhh... repercussions. Doesn't make it right, but it makes it as predictable as the sunrise.

As I tell my kids, more bluntly: If you dress outrageously, you can expect to find that people get outraged.

Well, I do get better service during warmer weather (no leather jacket).

 

[Sam Fisher]

I wouldn't neccessarily compartmentalize it as "shooter snobbery". I think you would get that reaction at most any place you visit, except for perhaps a sk8terz gathering.

You have to remember, most guy who hunt/shoot/collect/smith are not generally decked out like you are. I'm not saying how you dress and ornament your body is wrong. It's just a lot different from the mainstream firearm enthusiast and this is going to draw looks. Just as it would if a "normal" looking shooter attended a skaterz shop. The clientele would probably look at him as being "weird".

 

[Edward429451]

Use it to you're advantage as suggested! One practical aspect of learning to dress in 'urban camo' is making money. You can get paid more / charge more if you appear the part. Two guys equally skilled show up for a job or to bid a job, one guy has whitewalls, one guy has earrings and long hair/ beard whatever, who you suppose is going to get the job?

BTDT, I'd have long hair now if it weren't for the money. I look good in longish hair.

OTOH, dressing down (or up depending how you look at it) can have its advantages too...can keep the riff raff at a distance. When I rarely wear my leather jacket I notice some stand offishness of people. I think its funny that some people are intimidated by leather. You should've turned around and gave em a big BOO!! (maybe not in a gunstore!)

My subjective experiance has shown to me that generally speaking, the leather jacket/earringed/tattooed/long haired types are more consistently good honest trustworthy folk than are the suit & tie types.

What a good topic.

 

[JimJD]

I've gotten that type of grabage all my life.
Funny thing is,I'm from NYC, where all types live, funny, huh?
It just comes down to... Screw 'em!
I'm not going to dress a certain way to make other people happy, MY happiness is paramount.
Usually, when people talk to me, get to know me, they realize everything's ok.
I've even changed some people's minds about things of this nature.
I guess I showed them the error of their ways...

 

[Abenaki]

NewShooter...I feel your pain!

One of my hobbies is historical trekking. What I do is, pretend that it is the year 1770. I go back packing and try to do every thing authentic.

After 3 or 4 days in the hills living off of cornmeal and squirrels I like to stop off at a burger joint on the way home. Now you want to talk about looks. I even have parents grab their kids and move them outa my way when I walk past. Now the funny part is most of those same folks would go outa their way to shake my hand if they saw me in church!

Abenaki

 

[Lone_Gunman]

If you dress like a freak, a lot of people will think you are a freak.

If this bothers you, you shouldnt dress like a freak.

 

[NewShooter78]

I know that if you dress a certain way you get treated a certain way. But my dress isn't extreme. I'm built pretty big, so I have to dress in loose clothes or everything is tight like a new pair of Wranglers. And even with my piercings being stretched, its not like I have a pair of one inch holes, but you can notice them from more than a foot away. But that's not my point really.

My point is this. We all talk about how we need to get the average person to try and at least see our point of view, right? Well when we as shooters still have prejudices against each other, how can we ever further our "agenda"? I don't care that the guy in front of me was buying a Benelli, I would have struck up a conversation if I hadn't gotten the look I got. It would have been cool to hear about his interests in shotties. Like my screen name suggests, I'm not a seasoned vet when it comes to guns. I've only been in it for a little over a year. But its hard to walk the High Road when some wish you weren't even part of there world.

I love shooting. We all love shooting, but if we can't get past some things as petty as the way other's look then we won't win any battles for our RKBA.

One of the things that I like about this shop is that there are a lot of teenagers that work there. They are all for the most part more informed than I am about guns and shooting in general. They've probably been shooting as long as I've been a musician. And that's cool by me. I don't look down upon them because I'm 7 or 8 years older than they are. I want to learn and to hear what they have to say. But some people just seem to not get it.

And to answer a few other points brought up, I don't dress the way I do some days to draw attention to myself. I dress and look the way I do because I feel comfortable that way. I'm not in highschool anymore. I'm a manager in a large retail chain. I'm a college graduate. I'm a musician, a shooter, and an outdoorsman. I don't need to make statements, I just am.

 

[revlar]

Between my two jobs I am required to wear a tie six days a week. I don't have any complaints about it really - after all these years I am used to it.

On my day off jeans and a t-shirt (tats to the elbow) are the norm (and on my Sporty when the weather allows).

It is truly amazing to note the differences in the ways I am treated by those who do not know me. There are times when I will be treated rudely and I'll stop in my tracks, then smile to myself and remember, "Oh yeah, that's right - this is a no-tie day".

Clothes do not make the man - but they sure make the preconceptions others will have of you.

 

[jrhead75]

If you don't like the reaction others have, change the way you dress.

Say what? Hope you're being ironic there, because that's a little like saying if you don't like how Rosie feels about guns, don't carry.

I had the same problem...here was me, a former Marine and diehard Reaganite right winger with a ponytail. Once, I even got told that my insta-check for a shotgun purchase was held up, and then refused (the next day) by some officious looking putz at the local Big5...until they realized that I wasn't going to just go away, then it was "Sorry sir, the clerk read the wrong page of the logbook". I have no doubt it was all because of how I looked, as me with my newish high and tight have had no problems there. Or...show up at the wrong gunclub range with your EBR sometime (my pet peeve).

Express yourself as you will, and shoot what you will. That's what the 1st & 2nd Amendments are there for.