Single Action Revolvers
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george burns
Member
How does one hold this gun when firing? Due to the scoped model I wondered if you held it with a normal revolver grip, or with some type of modified grip? I never shot anything that heavy with a scope on it?Colt New Frontier in .45 Colt:
Bisley Hunter .44 Magnum:
FA 83 in .454 Casull:
BobWright
Member
murf,
What I am trying to say is that the first .44 Russian cartridges were outside lubricated, or greased, and while they were not heel crimped, they were not inside lubed. Inside lubrication came some years later. Had they insisted on inside lubrication, ammunition produced at their own arsenal would have been so lubricated. And such was not the case.
Bob Wright
correct me if i'm wrong, but was't the 45 colt cartridge, which came out in 1872, or 3, inside lubricated?
murf
George, it's not that much heavier. The base is aluminum as is the red dot sight (as are the rings) so it doesn't add a whole lot of weight. The first animal I shot with it was a wild hog and it was a 50 yard offhand shot. I even had a light attached to it as I was hunting in North Carolina at night.
Corpral_Agarn
Member
That's some nice shot placement!George, it's not that much heavier. The base is aluminum as is the red dot sight (as are the rings) so it doesn't add a whole lot of weight. The first animal I shot with it was a wild hog and it was a 50 yard offhand shot. I even had a light attached to it as I was hunting in North Carolina at night.
This is my latest contribution to the thread:
I tried the reload technique that Driftwood describes. I have since adopted it as my main method. It is better and faster:
BobWright
Member
The earliest specimen .45 Colt I have is from Frankford Arsenal, and it was greased. It was not heel crimped, nor die it have a rebated heel. Most of the lubricant is gone, only traces at the case mouth. And from my sources the Union Metallic Cartridge Company introduced the inside lubricant.
The cartridge on the left is an early Frankford round:
It was originally greased.
Bob Wright
george burns
Member
Now you have me thinking,,,George, it's not that much heavier. The base is aluminum as is the red dot sight (as are the rings) so it doesn't add a whole lot of weight. The first animal I shot with it was a wild hog and it was a 50 yard offhand shot. I even had a light attached to it as I was hunting in North Carolina at night.
RealGun
Member
My latest edition...a NIB 50th Anniversary Ruger Blackhawk Flat Top 44 Magnum. I upgraded the grips (NVB) and am making do with a holster, until my order for a 6 1/2" barrel cross draw comes. I shot it and did well. I have the identical gun in 41 Magnum also, plus the 44 Special in 4 5/8", all Flat Tops. And yes, it's loaded in this pic, since I am carrying it today.
Michigan Mike
Member
I am a single action revolver fan.
Corpral_Agarn
Member
medic15al
Member
My Cimarron in .45 Colt. Not one single smokeless round thru it.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Well, that's not really the way I empty and load a SAA. You are holding the gun in your left hand, spinning the cylinder with your fingers while you work the ejector rod. So far, you are doing the same as me. Then you transfer the gun to your right hand to reload. I continue to hold the gun with my left hand, still spinning the cylinder with my fingers, while I reload with my right hand. I am right handed, so I have more dexterity with my right hand, which makes it easier to perform the fine motor skills required to load cartridges into the chambers.
I guess the difference is you are reloading in a hurry, while I am not in a hurry to reload. I shoot single action revolvers mostly in CAS, and nobody is shooting back at us in CAS. In fact reloads on the clock have gotten so rare in CAS that there simply is no need to load in a hurry. When I am at the loading table, I have ten rounds sitting in a loading block ready for loading. We only load five in CAS, so I employ the time honored technique of load one, skip one, then load four more. I hold the revolver in my left hand and operate the cylinder with my thumb while I pluck cartridges out of the loading block and load both of my revolvers. After I shoot the stage I go over to the unloading table and empty my revolvers, again holding them in my left hand while spinning the cylinder with my fingers and working the ejector rod with my right hand, much as you did. The protocol in CAS is you unload at the unloading table and show clear before holstering and leaving the table.
I guess the difference in the shooting disciplines makes a difference in how one loads.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
Well, that's up for debate.
In his book The Colt Single Action Revolvers, A Shop Manual, Volumes 1 & 2, Jerry Kuhnhausen has an excellent illustration clearly showing the early Benet primed, copper cased, folded rim rounds were inside lubed.
Here is a box of 20 45 Colt cartridges made in 1874 in the Frankford Arsenal.
In this photo you can see the flat nature of the rear of the cartridge. Yes, they were centerfire cartridges, but the priming was internal. The white material on the bullets near the crimp appears to me to be lead oxide, but I could be wrong. It makes no sense to lube a bullet on the ogive, because that part of the bullet does not rub the bore. It makes much more sense to lube the cylindrical part of the bullet, because that is the part that rubs the bore. And the cylindrical part is down inside the case.
Sorry, I am not going to pull any of these bullets to make sure.
The two cartridges in the center of this photo are a copper cased, Benet primed 45 Colt and a 45 Schofield. They are flanked by their modern versions. The white material on the bullets of the Benet primed rounds appears to be lead oxide, not lube.
Here are three cartridges with heeled bullets. Left to right a 44 Henry Rimfire, and two 44 Colt cartridges, one from UMC and one from Winchester Repeating Arms. The lube has long since dried up and disappeared, but you can clearly see the lube grooves that once held the lube. An old balloon head 45 Colt is on the right.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I unloaded in a similar fashion. What the picture doesn't show is that I press the butt against my stomach, rather than holding it out away from my body. Which I believe helps me eject the empties about twice as fast as the video above. I also load with the left hand and find it quicker/easier than using the right. I don't rely on the right hand for all fine motor skills but rather prefer training both hands.
Overall the video is a great demonstration of SA speed!
Overall the video is a great demonstration of SA speed!
driftwood johnson,
i agree, the white dusting on the bullet is probably lead oxide. thank you for the info on the old 45 army. i was sure the 45 colt was inside lubricated, but that doesn't mean it was the first to be inside lubricated. history is a bit lacking on that subject. maybe no one wanted the russians to be first, even back then.
murf
i agree, the white dusting on the bullet is probably lead oxide. thank you for the info on the old 45 army. i was sure the 45 colt was inside lubricated, but that doesn't mean it was the first to be inside lubricated. history is a bit lacking on that subject. maybe no one wanted the russians to be first, even back then.
murf
Jim Watson
Member
Used to see the drawing of the .44 R patent self lubricating bullet with central cavity full of lube and a base plug squirting it out holes in the ogive.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy Again
I have a reprint of a S&W catalog from about 1900 that has an illustration of that type of bullet and a good description.
It is not what we would call an inside lubricated bullet today. The bullet had a narrow hollow in it that was filled with lube. Behind the lube was a small disk called a plunger. There were small holes drilled in the sides of the bullet. When the cartridge fired, pressure from the burning powder forced the plunger forward, squirting the lube out of the ogive.
A quick web search came up with this web site which shows the actual illustrations from the old S&W catalog.
http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2012/10/self-lubricating-bullets.html
This page shows an actual cartridge sectioned.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo06oct.htm
Note that Daniel Wesson patented this design about 1893, long after the 44 Russian cartridge was developed. This is not how they were lubricated.
Armybrat
Member
Added some Altamont "bonded ivory" (fancy term for epoxy plastic) grip panels to my New Vaquero. I like them better than the Talo "star" panels that came on it.
Michigan Mike
Member
She is a real beauty. Oh how I love gun porn 
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