Soft Targets vs Hard Targets

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Harley Man

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I did do a search on this and found nothing so here goes.....The Bad Guys out there are looking for Soft Targets,... how people carry themselves, items left unattended in plain sight, people that are not paying attention to there surroundings, talking on a cell phone...etc. On the other hand Hard Targets are people with an awareness of everything that is going on around them, looking potential Bad Guys right in the eye, carrying themselves in an defensive posture. Bad Guys Do know the difference and stay away from Hard Target Types, they know the potential target might be a heck of a lot crazier then themself. Just look around when your out it's really easy to pick out the two types of Targets in the crowd!
DON'T BE A SOFT TARGET!!!

Proud Viet Nam Vet!
 
Why would you want to invite the predators to hassle you?

I think its the look on their face when they realize they made a mistake that really draws me in. :)

Thats not to say I "invite" anything... I just don't go around looking like a tough guy. I look like a regular guy, not like a commando. So, if a perp does push the limits, they might be a little shocked at the results... and I am ok with that.
 
DON'T BE A SOFT TARGET!!!

That is always good advice. The problem is that the already "hard targets" know it and practice it. The "soft targets" are probably going to remain so.

Case in point: A member of our family (a little old lady of 85) recently was mugged in broad daylight in the parking lot of the local restaurant she has patronized for 40 years.

She got out of her car and reached into the back seat for her purse and...Wham! - knocked to the ground - purse snatched. Luckily she was not seriously injured.

The mistakes she made in that scenario are pretty obvious. However...she isn't going to magically turn into a "hard target". She will only become older and frailer. She is not - at this point in her life - going to buy a gun and learn how to use it. And a gun would have done her no good in this scenario anyway.

Hopefully she WILL look around the parking lot to see who is lurking before exiting her car, and leave the big purse at home.
 
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ranbowbob...I understand your point and agree....This brings up another relative subject....bystanders doing nothing when there fellow man is in need. This get's my cheeks red when I hear a little old lady got robed in daylight as bystanders stand by and do nothing. I think the Police should arrest the bystanders.
 
This get's my cheeks red when I hear a little old lady got robed in daylight as bystanders stand by and do nothing.

Naturally I was very upset about this. I don't know that there were any bystanders, however. The parking lot is off the side of the restaurant and it is most likely from what I know that it was a quick hit and run with nobody else (but her elderly female companion) close enough to do anything.
 
Soft Target vs Hard Target

Lee Lapin guess I don't know what consitudes a good Thread. I sure want to play within the rules so how can I control reply's within my Thread??? Need some guide lines here.

Sign ....Just trying to play within the rules....I can assure you I will not start a Thread unless I feel it will be of some importance to others.
 
Harley Man,

There's nothing wrong with the OP (original post), and the thread seems on track so far, after a little help.

The formal rules for S&T are stickied at the top of the main S&T page- give 'em a look. The broader rules for THR are at the link at the top right hand corner of the page, where it says Forum Rules.

This isn't your little brother's Internet. We're here in S&T to talk seriously, about serious subjects.

So please maintain an appropriately mature demeanor here (no, Gatling guns in vehicles are not an appropriate subject- this isn't a Mad Max movie). Good fun is fine, if there's any humor to be found to help get a point across, but the 'net doesn't always communicate some kinds of humor very well. It's best to be careful with humor when limited to plain text in communicating it.

hth,

lpl
 
Harley Man

Yes, your 1st post is wonderful, and totally correct. As potential prey we do not need to be the hardest target on the block, just harder than the others around us.

In some way stall the human predator from making the 3/5th of a second final decision to attack us. This can be done anywhere along his decision process, from first approach right up to the actual moment of strike. Our scanning, changing direction, eye contact, awareness of surrounding, and the pages of other tell-tales can cause the predator to change up his target focus.

KBintheSLC - I am stunned by your response, I have spent "what Seems like"a lifetime trying to deescalate violent encounters. Teaching awareness, and alertness as a way to avoid the use of force.

I wish you peace with your choice, I have found that even practicing the above, violence will sometimes find you, I find it insane that anyone would look forward to it!! Good Luck with that:banghead:
 
Almost entirely I agree with the OP, but I wonder if there is a certain type of bad guy that is looking for the rep of attacking a hard target. I guess I am imagining a gang banger type that is affront by someone not lowering their eyes.

Please do not understand me to be suggesting that soft target behavior is in any way preferable. Just things rambling through my mind.
 
Bystanders can't be expected to help. Here in Nashville a "by stander" tried to help in a purse snatch...was stabbed, and died a short time later. Trying to help is dangerous. Be careful!

Mark.

My screen name is what I hope to be...I've never had to shoot. Maybe I'm doing better than I thought!
 
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It isn't about looking or acting like a Bad[]- rather it is about being aware of your surroundings. My wife is not going to scare anyone this side of a baby, but she is quite obviously not a target. The reality of being truly aware protects us on so many levels. Predators see the awareness and look elsewhere. We notice the predators and take action (evasive or otherwise). We see the kid playing ball while we're driving down the street and notice that he just missed the goal and that the ball (followed closely by the kid) will be crossing in our path.
The thing that gets to me are all of the truly oblivious people, listening to iPods, texting, talking on cell phones, ignoring everything going on around them. When some miscreant or errant bicyclist decides to invade their world, they are already WAY behind the curve.
When something doesn't look or feel right- it isn't.

The WWII Fighter Pilots had a sequence called the OODA loop. Observe, orient, decide, act, observe, orient.... The only way to enter that loop is by observation.
 
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hard target, soft target, whatever you want to call it. My goal is to blend. I don't want anyone to notice me. Invisible is just fine for me. I find it harder to blend in in smaller communities especially where everyone knows everyone I also have a problem with my skin tone.
 
The tactic being used by the bad guy is ASYMMETRY.

He's focusing his strengths against his target's weaknesses.

A "hard target" challenges a bad guy's strengths - he doesn't want to slug it out with a target that's as strong or stronger than he is.
 
The attached is very much on topic (though far more polysyllabic than the OP 8^), and comes from Skip Gochenour by way of John Farnam, both often quoted here. For those unfamiliar with the initialism, VCA = violent criminal actor in ATSA-speak.

Personal appearance, attidute, conduct, level of attention- and many more factors too subtle to try and list here- constitute the observations a VCA makes of prospective victims, while said VCA conducts the victim selection process. It should be our goal to fail the VCA's victim selection process by evidencing awareness, ability and willingness to do lethal damage to attackers if necessary. And should we somehow 'pass' the VCA's 'victim selection test' despite all this, then we must be ready, willing and able to make it clear to the VCA that he made a serious mistake in the victim selection process.

lpl
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http://www.defense-training.com/quips/28July08.html

28 July 08

Incisive analyses, as always, from Skip Gochenour and the ATSA Crew:

"While all ten of the points you enumerate are valid and germane, these two are, by far, the most important:

>Face facts! Don't con yourself. Don't delude yourself into thinking you're not really seeing what is in front of you.

>Lose your fear of dying! There are no guarantees in this life, and, end the end, we're all dead anyway. Who look for 'fairness'in the way the world is ordered, do so in vain!

In four decades of studying violent encounters, and in discussions with hundreds of VCAs, I have become convinced that decisions on the part of VCAs with regard to victim selection and engagement are governed almost entirely by their perception of the potential victim's understanding of, and personal commitment to, the foregoing.

VCAs understand that the willful reluctance of the target/victim to accept the reality and urgency of the situation, catalyzes the victim's inclination to engage in fantasy- delusion sufficient to persuade the victim to suspend reality just long enough for the victimization to take place.

In the VCA's convergence upon an engagement decision, he will accept all the other points you made, so long as the two enumerated above are in his favor. He will thus be heavily influenced by his perception (correct or incorrect) that the target/victim is willing to wager his life on the outcome of the next few moments. When the target/victim is obviously unwilling to make that irrevocable wager, and instead submerges himself in aboulic fantasy, the VCA has a green light, no matter what other factors figure into the equation!

Since the success, and continued good health, of the VCA turns on his ability to correctly perceive this willingness, or its absence, he is well-advised to hone that perceptive skill. His first wrong call may well be his last, as it nearly was in the incident you cited."

Comment: Fear, like all other emotions, needs to be managed and contained. Fear is normal, even beneficial in some circumstances. But, when out of control, fear leads, by a short route, to delusion and paralysis, as Skip noted above. Fear will drive you to inaction, and maybe crazy to boot! Its paralyzing grip must be broken by personal courage, resolve, and icy determination, which you either have or you don't!

In the words of Sitting Bull, "Brothers! Test your armor, but only test the front!"

/John
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-and the Success Story as mentioned above:

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/27July08.html

Success Story!

27 July 08

Success story, from a female student:

"Last week, I had just returned home from shopping . My house is set back from the street and up forty stairs. Shrubs on both sides of the stairway obscure the view and severely restrict any exit except down the stairs. When I arrived home, I parked my car in the driveway, carried a load of groceries up to the house, then returned to the car to bring up the last load.

As I got my arms full again, I heard a man's voice saying, 'Hey lady! I have something to sell you.' I turned to see a strange man, scrubby, dirty, and poorly dressed, advancing on me from the street. I replied, 'I'm not interested,' and started walking quickly toward the stairs.

The man followed. I turned toward him and said sternly, 'I'm not interested. Get off my property!' He replied, 'Let me come in and show you what I have for sale.' He continued to advance on me. I abruptly dropped my packages, got my hand on my snubby revolver, and ran up the stairs to my front door, entered my house, and locked the door behind me.

Once inside, I called 911 and reported an 'assault-in-progress.' I took a breath, thinking the man had probably left.

No such luck!

The man appeared at my doorway and started pounding and kicking the locked door, yelling, "Let me in! Let me in!" Still on the line,the 911 operator, hearing the pounding, said, 'What is that?' I replied, 'Operator, send the police now! A violent felon is breaking into my house!'

Having only marginal faith in the stoutness of my front door, I retreated up the stairs to a landing. I used a support post for cover as I pointed my revolver at the door. I calculated I would be shooting down (safe backstop), plus the attacker would not see me right away. Fortunately, I had thought about, and rehearsed, all this before, so there was no hesitation on my part.

I shouted, 'Go away! I've called the police, and they on the way. I have a gun, and I will shoot!

The pounding abruptly stopped, and I could hear him running back down the stairs. From an upstairs window, I saw a faded van drive up, pick the man up, and drive away. Never saw him again!

Police were there minutes afterward. They indicated that what I had experienced fit the MO of a gang of grubs that had spread out over the neighborhood lately.

The moral of this story for me is the confirmation of the value of my professional defensive handgun training and my ongoing practice with my Training Group. My pistol was loaded, as always, with high-performance ammunition, and I entertained no uncertainty with regard to my ability to stop this felon with gunfire, and I was fully prepared to do so, without hesitation.

Happily, it was not necessary, this time!"

Lessons:

(1) Be alert! Pay attention. Keep your head up. Have a well-tuned ability to detect trouble in the making. The more time you have to prepare yourself and refine your Plan accordingly, the better the outcome.

(2) Face facts! Don't con yourself. Don't delude yourself into thinking you're not really seeing what is in front of you.

(3) Have a Plan! Know your Plan. Rehearse your Plan. But, don't fall in love with your Plan! Those without a plan will predictably dither and die!

(4) Stern, clear, uncluttered verbal challenges will often prevent the necessity of using deadly force. Verbal challenges need to be short, to the point, one-way, and unequivocal. Don't bluff, and don't engage in a conversation!

(5) Be armed! Like wearing seatbelts when in a car, you can't know when they will be necessary, so you wear them all the time!

(6) Stay in motion! Get your feet out of cement. A moving target is a difficult target.

(7) There is no substitute for competent firearms training and continuous practice. When you've never taken lessons, it is unlikely you'll be able to suddenly sit down in front of a piano and make music, no matter how nice a piano it is!

(8) Be prepared to go it alone. Don't wait to be rescued! Even a relatively fast response [by] police is still far too slow to make any difference in the outcome of most life-threatening situations. When you are not prepared to handle it yourself, right now, without assistance from anyone, you probably won't live through it.

(9) Do whatever is necessary, at the critical moment, without hesitation. Don't worry about being perfect, and don't look back!

(10) Lose your fear of dying! There are no guarantees in this life, and, end the end, we're all dead anyway. [Those] Who look for "fairness" in the way the world is ordered, do so in [vain]!

/John
 
Even a Soft Target can become a Hard Target if they have the where with all to do so. There is a sea fish called a Puffer Fish...small non concerning fish with little spikes over it's body. When danger lurks the fish blows itself up 3 - 4 times it's body size in order not to be eaten.
could be a bad example, but point being even the weak has an internal survival instinct.
 
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