Spotted ANOTHER 30.06 sign.... ***sigh***

[PedalBiker]

"Taco Cabana is owned by Carrols Corporation of Syracuse, N.Y., one of the largest restaurant companies in the U.S., owns, operates and franchises more than 540 restaurants under the Burger King®, Pollo Tropical®, Taco Cabana® brands. Carrols operates in 16 states, employs over 16,000 people and has sales of approximately $750 million."

Not to hijack the thread, I'm in Colorado, but the Burger King's here are horribly managed (same company?). They are dirty and the service is horrible. I'm just not sure that keeping happy customers is at the top of their list.

Unless I'm missing something this looks like a classic case of poor management. I'd really like to see an audit of the immigration status of their workers too. It would be interesting to see how much respect for those laws they have.

 

[neviander]

Of course. I would comply if the law said I could not possess firearms. The alternative is jail time. If I felt differently, I would just move.

I am certain the founding fathers did NOT feel that way, they couldn't just up and move, they had to fight for what they believed in.

And I would not be breaking the law, per say, merely working it. If for whatever reason you were charged with a crime and were on trial, wouldn't you want your lawyer to work every possible angle within the law to keep you out of jail? There is wriggle room within laws (i.e. not breaking them), lawyers know this...that's why they're lawyers.

 

[Monkeybear]

And I would not be breaking the law, per say, merely working it. If for whatever reason you were charged with a crime and were on trial, wouldn't you want your lawyer to work every possible angle within the law to keep you out of jail? There is wriggle room within laws (i.e. not breaking them), lawyers know this...that's why they're lawyers.

If you see a compliant 30.06 sign and enter the business anyway you are trespassing, which is illegal. The 30.06 sign is "notice" which is kinda the whole point.

Fact is that if Taco Cabana dose not want me to carry on their private property then I will not, especially since its illegal. There are better ways of changing societal perception of firearms than breaking the law and ranting about the founding fathers. YOU do not decide if a law is acceptable. We do, as a people though our elected officials. The founding fathers set us up a nice republic so we wouldn't have to hide in the woods and shoot at each other every time we want to change something about the law.

To fight off the panic and hysteria caused by anti organizations in their efforts to ban firearms we all have to work together to change a lot of minds by displaying a sense of personal responsibility and presence of mind. This is not done though breaking the law, ignoring the rights of property owners or any other dishonest behavior.

 

[neviander]

I don't mind if people disagree with me, but I don't think you're getting my point. I'm gonna quit now though, sorry if I hijacked this thread.

 

[bdickens]

Here's what you should do... Go measure their sign, make sure that it either conforms or doesn't conform with the absolute nit-pickiest letter of the law, and then tell them about it.

No, bogie, that's a bad idea. You do that and the next thing you know, they'll have the proper sign up. As it stands now, the near 30.06 signs they have currently mean nothing.

 

[bogie]

You know, you're right... This forum is obviously all about bickering over the fine little details that really don't matter, and not at all about maintaining or expanding 2nd amendment rights.

Calling a business, talking to management, talking to friends... Those must all be useless activities, because they might actually accomplish something... We're FAR better off figuring out ways to sneak past the signs so we can support the companies that post signs which infringe upon our rights.

When you die, and you approach the pearly gates to the celestial gun club, and John M. Browning approaches you, and asks "What did you do for the gun culture on the day you died?" the answer better NOT be "I ate an extra fiery hot sauce taco."

Every time someone says they see one of these signs, there are several comments that ALWAYS get made:

1) I wouldn't shop there anyway. (so? does that mean it's okay that the sign stays up, influencing other businesses and customers, conditioning them to think that the sign HAS to be up, and that Guns Are Bad?)

2) I'll just sneak past it - nobody but me will know. (whoopee. sign's still up (see above), and unlike the person above, you are actually helping to pay to keep it up. this person will post about how surprised and offended they are when this favorite store puts in a metal detector to keep them from entering.)

Byron, if you're paying for it, it oughta at least be the right sign - where is your sense of correctness? You know, that's the problem with this country - everyone wants to just do something halfway, and say that it's just fine. Well, it isn't. Next thing you know, someone in China is going to come out with a quality sign, selling for less, and people will be just snapping them up like hotcakes. Do hotcakes snap? I'm not sure about that...

3) The business has a right to put it up. (usually expounded upon at length, occasionally by folks who appear to have papered their bathroom wall with copies of the constitution, amendments, and all previous regulations pertaining to property rights. doesn't stop the sign from being any less infringing, but hey... it's an argument that can go on for pages!)

4) And some folks actually reply that they intend to have a chat with the management the next time they are in the area. Lately, it appears that these folks, the only segment who is actually doing something to promote 2nd amendment rights, are in the minority.

 

[geojap]

Calling a business, talking to management, talking to friends... Those must all be useless activities, because they might actually accomplish something...

I think many of us who live in Austin have talked to business owners about 30.06 signs. That is how we convinced the Alamo Drafthouse at Lake Creek to remove their sign.

Austin has a liberal reputation but in reality it's very Libertarian here in most places. The effect from the hippe and redneck culture from the 60s and 70s still lives on. There actually are very few 30.06 signs in town. There is only one (legal sign) that I have actually seen, at the North Austin Medical Center on Mopac.

 

[goon]

A business is not my mother.

The law basically says we don't have to 'respect' non-compliant signs.

It's the same concept.
It's their property and they've made their wishes clear.
Whether the sign is compliant or not is a technicality. If you can see it and you can read it, why not respect their wishes?

 

[wally]

I see the close, but non-compliant 30.06 signs to be a "reasonable" compromise. They can "feel good" about it, and we can ignore them.

Legally binding sign or not, I try to avoid places with anti-gun signs as I feel they really say "this is a good place to rob, even if people are inside". This argument, and the implied liability of being responsible for my safety after posting, has been pretty effective in getting them removed.

Contact TSRA, they can likely help point out the facts to the business owner.

--wally.

 

[Owens]

This all may become mute depending on what happens in the 2009 legislature.

The Governor has essentially called for legislation that would permit carry anywhere.

IF I understand the whisperings floating around, that would essentially permit carry anywhere an LEO can.

That or we'll see the coming of OC.

Who really knows though? Just conjecture on my part.

Talking to those who post non compliant signs can sometimes work to get them removed totally or it can result in them putting up a fully compliant sign. Sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lay. Hard to know when it's not best though.

There is a business near here that has the right language in very small type on an 8.5 x11 sheet of paper. On one entrance...that is visible AFTER you are already inside. It has the correct language, but that is the only aspect that is compliant about it. I believe that it is 'corp policy' but the local does this just to keep corporate happy and nothing more.

In this case, I won't speak to them about it. Let that dog lay.

 

[bogie]

Are you helping to pay for it?

 

[texas bulldog]

thanks, TehK1w1, for the texas3006 website tip. seems like it could be a very useful resource if it gets widely used.

as it wasn't already there, i went ahead and posted the one compliant sign i've seen. it was the baby acapulco's on I-35. but i wouldn't go back there anyway for reasons having nothing to do with gun rights and everything to do with the food, service, and clientele.

 

[arthurcw]

there's no possible way the police can PROVE that you saw the sign.

They don't have to. They Business that posts in compliance has done everything it can to give notice. If YOU don't see it, YOU are at fault. Period. End of discussion. YOU got to jail and YOU lose your license.

If your instructor told you this nonsense, please list his/her name and where they teach so we can warn others not to take the class from them. Please, when you take your renewal, take it from a qualified instructor and not someone who lives in the land of make-believe.

 

[bogie]

Missouri's law is such that even the "legal" signs really do not legally mean much at all. About all the business owner can do is tell us to leave.

Fine. I'll adhere to their wishes, and not spend money there.

All you Texans - if you drove across the border to Oklahoma, and stopped at a gas station with the sign in the window "Texans not welcome!" - wouldn't you raise about 13 different kinds of hell about that?

 

[geojap]

All you Texans - if you drove across the border to Oklahoma, and stopped at a gas station with the sign in the window "Texans not welcome!" - wouldn't you raise about 13 different kinds of hell about that?

These are two completely different things. It's really not even worth analyzing how flawed the logic is there.

There are laws. And we have to follow them. I guess most people in Texas realize that. We will see what happens in the future regarding these laws, however. Every year we get a few more laws passed in our favor, so things are going in the right direction.

 

[bogie]

"We don't want concealed weapons permit holders as customers."

We don't want Texans as customers."

Doesn't strike me as all that different.

 

[neviander]

There are laws. And we have to follow them.

Okay, I can't hold my tongue....fingertips anymore. Yes there are laws, yes we follow them, but you're starting to sound like a sympathizer for the crown or the Gestapo or something. There is nothing wrong with DISSENT.....*calming down*. I hope I am misunderstanding you. If we automatically bow to every piece of legislation that power hungry politicians blindly sign, then we deserve every bit of oppression we get.

To clarify a bit further: would I go to a Taco Cabana now that I know they're anti-gun? no.
If, for whatever reason, I needed to go inside (loved one was inside, you witness someone choking on a burrito, whatever) would I take the time to stow my piece to help said person? hell no.

These are some of the extreme situations I'm talking about. Yeah, the odds of something of that nature happening is remote, but we're all about the stakes, not the odds...right?
I'm sorry if it seemed like I was advocating breaking the law just because you felt like it earlier....I'll have to be more verbose in my first post I guess.

Much love
neviander

 

[bogie]

We've been getting a lot of kids on this system lately who never really experienced how a protest or grass roots action can really change something. They've been taught that any activity has to be a -group- activity, or it isn't valid, and they think that protests are just an excuse for anarchy and riots or wearing one's leather tu-tu. Not all that hard to understand, given how they were educated (indoctrinated...), and since we now have paramilitary police who seem to think that the answer to virtually every situation is "Face down!" - Honestly, officer - I swear I'll never jaywalk again! It's like the folks think that they can change only what they are specifically told they have permission to change.

Us old hippies know different.

Act individually. Think Constitutionally.

And bypassing a problem never resulted in a solution.

 

[geojap]

...but you're starting to sound like a sympathizer for the crown or the Gestapo or something

If believing the current Texas government is not tyrannical makes me a "sympathizer", so be it.

I do not consider them to be Gestapo either, if that is what you are insinuating. Texas DPS troopers are the most professional state law-enforcement in the country.

Just because I advocate not breaking the law when you have a Texas CHL does not make me a Gestapo sympathizer. That is pretty twisted thinking to insinuate that, in my opinion. The reason one is able to get a CHL is because one has proven themselves to be a responsible citizen who respects the law.

 

[wally]

ll you Texans - if you drove across the border to Oklahoma, and stopped at a gas station with the sign in the window "Texans not welcome!"

Aren't these everywhere on UT-OU weekend

--wally.

 

[TexKettering]

Just because you can, does not mean you should. Especially if you are a licensed to carry a concealed handgun and what you are apparently proposing is against the law.

Try and justify illegal behavior with me all day, but it will get you no where. I will abide by the laws in the country/state/municipality in which I live. You are casually proposing to break the law, which I reject with the most vigorous dissent.

The signs are not correct and, therefore, hold zero legal weight. I am not breaking the law when I carry into an establishment with an incorrect 30.06 sign.

No one is recommending anyone break the law.

I could not agree more!!!! This "going in the side door", "Oh, I didn't see the huge sign" BS is appalling. Grow up!!! Y'all know the laws, respect them. I went in to Billy Bob's Last time I was in Texas, and they had the 51% sign, and ya know what? I left my revolver elsewhere, I didn't carry it in!! You folks who do stupid crap like that do more to harm our cause than any anti out there. FWIW, of course.

SASD209

The law is written the way it is for a purpose. If the establishment does not care enough to read the extremely easy instructions on how to bar CHLs from entering, then I have no sympathy for them. I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they meant to bar us - the signs are not incorrect. Simple as that.

 

[bogie]

I am not breaking the law when I carry into an establishment with an incorrect 30.06 sign.

You are just supporting the enemy...

What if those "no texans allowed" signs were in Arkansas?

 

[Monkeybear]

If, for whatever reason, I needed to go inside (loved one was inside, you witness someone choking on a burrito, whatever) would I take the time to stow my piece to help said person? hell no.

The argument: When a private business post a compliant 30.06 sign to give notice that concealed firearms are not allowed on their property it should be viewed as such and you should not enter while armed.

The retort: Someone could choke on a burrito as you are walking by the window looking in and there would be insufficient time to disarm and save the persons life.

The compromise: Compliant 30.06 signs should be respected as legal notice not to carry a concealed weapon into the privately owned business unless, due to whatever improbable circumstances arise, someones life depends on it.

All you Texans - if you drove across the border to Oklahoma, and stopped at a gas station with the sign in the window "Texans not welcome!" - wouldn't you raise about 13 different kinds of hell about that?

The argument: When a private business post a compliant 30.06 sign to give notice that concealed firearms are not allowed on their property it should be viewed as such and you should not enter while armed.

The retort: If you object to gas stations in OK banning Texans then it is only logical that you should also object a law in Texas that provides a way for private business to prohibit concealed carry of firearms on their premises because they are both "prohibitive".

The compromise: Compliant 30.06 signs should be respected as legal notice not to carry a concealed weapon into the privately owned business with the stipulation that it not lead to the banning of Texans in OK or AR.

-we can support the companies that post signs which infringe upon our rights.

-doesn't stop the sign from being any less infringing

You don't have a "right" to enter Taco Cabana. They provide a service that you want. Taco Cabana is not the US Government, its a business owned by your fellow Americans.

Businesses putting up signs to keep people with concealed guns off their property has nothing to do with Government Tyranny. Its just the owners of the business have an opinion about concealed carry and a legal way to ask you to leave before you even enter. Remember they can ask you to leave and refuse you service with out any reason at all. If they ask you to leave and you do not then its trespassing, just like it would be if you told someone to get out of your house. The 30.06 just means they have legally already given you notice. Their business, their property, their rights.

You don't like it? Change peoples minds though the examples you set. As an armed citizen you must be the most calm, courteous, law abiding and responsible person on the block because the fact that you have a gun on your belt is indicates to the mis-lead populace the exact opposite.

The Governor has essentially called for legislation that would permit carry anywhere.

This is how things change.

 

[Drgong]

^ +1

 

[bogie]

I don't -want- to eat at Taco Cabana.

I don't -want- to support their sign habit.

I am not going to sneak past their sign, legal or not, to support their business.

But some of you guys are.

Compliant, or non-compliant, signs should be recognized, by the gun culture community (that's at least some of you guys...), that the establishment which has posted them does not wish us to spend money there.

I don't mind signs like "no illegal firearms," and "no criminals with guns" - those are posted by people who know. It's the "legal" and "close to legal" (if someone's trying hard enough to not have me as a customer, hey, I don't mind going somewhere else, even if they're not 100%) and the "gunbuster" type of stuff that really gets me...

Because it all reinforces the "guns are bad" message.