The 336 Club

[JustsayMo]

Addendum to Range Report

Addendum:

Encouraged by the Buckshot results I decided to further my experimentation.

0 Buckshot <.318" seated with thumb pressure + a push on the bench to just shy of half way in.
Winchester Brass 6x, well champfered.
CCI 200 primer
COL= ~2.210" +-

2 grains of Red Dot (one .3 cc Lee Scoop) = 863-878 fps with excellent 25' accuracy-enlarged hole

3.3grains of Red Dot (one .5cc Lee Scoop) = 1139-1179 fps, also with excellent close range accuracy.

EDIT: Correction-The Red Dot and the Bullseye loads will both soot the case neck. The 3.3 grain load leaves less soot of the loads I tested. I was surprised at the velocity jump and report difference between the loads. As reported earlier the rounds cycled easily from the magazine.

Next chance I get I will test for accuracy out to 50 yards.

 

[AStone]

We fell off the front page.

Sorry, not carrying my share of the load.
Super busy at work.

Interesting to read range reports on buckshot from a 336 ...

 

[goon]

streakr - That is a SWEET looking rebarreled 336 in 38-55!
Makes me want to go buy a 30-30 cowboy even more.

BTW - what's the story with .375 Winchester and .38-55?
I've read that the .375 is basically just a .38-55 loaded to higher pressures for modern guns.
Is that about right?
Can a .38-55 336 handle .375 Winchester as well?

 

[papajohn]

Goon, the 375 and 38/55 are basically what you said, the 375 is a higher pressure version of the 38/55, BUT there are some differences. 375 brass is a lot sturdier, as well as shorter. You CAN fire 38/55 loads in a 375 if you trim them to the correct length, but NO 375 load should ever be fired in a 38/55 rifle. The 375 is proofed to over 50,000 cup, the 38/55 was designed as a blackpowder round, and runs at MUCH lower pressures. If you want to know more, here's a good place to sniff around. http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php?board=58.0

BTW, the 38/55 is the parent round of the 30-30, well over a hundred years ago.

I'm still casting about for an old 30-30 Marlin to have rebarrelled to 38/55. According to Swany, our resident gunsmithing expert, the 38/55 can be loaded to equal 375 ballistics, but it has to be done judiciously. The twist of the two rifles is different, do a search for his posts, he explains the how and why much better than I ever could.

Hope this helps.

PJ

 

[goon]

Thanks.
IIRC, there were some 336's chambered for .375 though - maybe I'm wrong about that. But it would seem that if the 336 action can handle the pressure, there shouldn't be a problem with it.
Shouldn't...

BTW - I come across old Marlin 336's pretty often in the $200-$250 range. Finding one to rebarrel shouldn't be that hard.
I like streakr's 38-55 but I'd want something similar in 30-30, maybe with a 20" octagon barrel.

 

[Jubjub]

I put together a few rounds for my .35 using some cast 158 grain .357 SWC over ten grains of Unique. I didn't bench test them, but they seemed to be going right where I called my shots shooting offhand at 25 yards. They looked pretty funny, but they fed fine from the magazine, and didn't seem to lead the bore too much.

I noticed that Meister lists some of their bullets with the option of .357 or .358 diameter, so I ordered some of their 158 flat point in .358 to try. My 336 could turn out to be my favorite plinker.

 

[papajohn]

Goon, some 336's were specially heat-treated and beefed up to handle the added thumnp of the 375, and the model designation was changed from 336 to M-375. They're in a class by themselves!

I've been looking for used 30-30's but the market around here is pretty low, not sure why. I'm sure once hunting season gets close I'll find something. But sending it back to Marlin and having it rebarrelled for $300 is a really sweet deal, I just can't pass that up. Marlinitis would never allow that to happen.

Jubjub, I shoot a fair amount of those 158-grain loads, they're fun to play with, good for small game, you could even take a deer with one if you had a good clear shot. .358 should work just fine!

PJ

 

[streakr]

Goon:

Marlin can convert a 336C into a 336 Cowboy model with the 20" Ballard rifled octagonal. Contact Customer Service.

streakr

 

[ThomasT]

Papjohn I think it was the barrels on the 375s that were heat treated for the higher pressure.

I wish it would occur to Marlin to install barrels with ballard rifling on there 336s without having to buy the new XWR or whatever its called.

 

[goon]

Papajohn - thanks. Sounds like you kind of know your Marlins.
I was wondering about the .375/.38-55 thing since I noticed in my reloading manuals that the two were VERY close except for the added pressure.

Streakr - that's also good to know. As I said, I can find a used Marlin 336 in just about any local gun shop for around $250, usually less with some finish wear. Is the 336C the version without the rear barrel band (I know, it's in the thread, but it's buried by now)?
Your rifle really looks nice so I may have to obtain one and allow Marlin to work their magic.

 

[AStone]

Papajohn - thanks. Sounds like you kind of know your Marlins.

Yep. The boy knows a thing or two.

OK, here's a question (pushing the edges of 336-ville even further).

How do these exotic 38/55 and 375 rnds stack up next to
the .45-70, which Marlin already produces?

I mean, if it ain't broke ...

 

[goon]

Nematocyst - neither of them has the thump of the .45-70.
The 38-55 is an OLD round and the .375 Winchester is a newer version with a slightly shorter, thicker case that's loaded to higher pressures.

IIRC, they haven't made the .375 Win rifles for a long time. The .38-55 has been resurrected lately but was kind of dead for the better part of 100 years.

 

[AStone]

Thanks for that insight, Goon.

I'm getting this: .38-55 is an intermediate rnd
between .30-30 and .45-70.

It sounds like a good rnd in that range for reloaders
(I'm guessing there are few factory .38-55 rnds out there.)

But for hunting, what would it
be appropriate for that .45-70 wouldn't?
Elk? Moose? Bear?

OK, I'll cut to the chase.
Other than for historical reasons,
what's .38-55 good for?

Even if it's just historical reasons,
I'm not knocking it. Good is good.

But if I'm going to pick another lever gun,
I'm not convinced so far that .38-55
is "better" than .45-70, especially
since the latter is more available now.

 

[goon]

I'd use a .38-55 for fairly short range deer hunting, black bear, and probably hogs (although there aren't any in my area). It is not much of a contender for the same role that the .444 and .45-70 fill.

Basically, you'd use it for the same thing you'd use a 30-30 for only with less common, more expensive ammunition, possibly requiring you to handload it.
Nothing wrong with that for the guys who value nostalgia. I also do, hence my love for the Marlin lever actions.
But when practicality and nostalgia meet, I'm inclined to think to myself "why choose another caliber to have to worry about when the 30-30 I already own will do pretty much the same thing?"

 

[jkingrph]

OK, I'll cut to the chase.
Other than for historical reasons,
what's .38-55 good for?

Fun, A bit more knock down than 30-30 without the recoil of 45-70. Really a nice balanced round for a lever.

 

[Nanuk]

I finally own a 336A

Whooo hoooo.... Been lurking for a while and happy to finally have a 336A in and out of the safe... Thanks for all the interesting, educational and nonsensical reading!!!!

 

[AStone]

Nanuk, congrats and welcome in. Glad you find our collective madness of value.

Goon and JK, thanks for the clarification. Makes sense to me now. I just needed that bit of perspective.

 

[goon]

You're welcome.
FYI, according to my reloading manuals the 38-55 pushes a 200 grain bullet at about 2,000 FPS or a 255 grain bullet at around 1600-1700 FPS.

 

[jkingrph]

My pleasure,

38-55 is probably the most pleasurable caliber I have in a 336 other than my Dad's old 35 Rem, considering I do not have a Marlin in 30-30.

 

[Kentucky-roughrider]

This is my 100th post, Here's several ideas for Marlin: sale the 336 with two barrel options one with micro-goove or Ballard rifled. It would be something like this 336A is Mirco-grooved, 336AB has ballard barrel.
The same for the C's and W's models, too. Another idea for them is to have straight stocks or pistol grips models. And how about more options in calibers: 38-55, 32 Win Special, 25-35, and other similar calibers? Yes, I know a good gunsmith can change calibers. What do you guys think?

 

[JeepGeeek]

with the microgroove working so well, why would they bother going ballard?

 

[streakr]

Goon:
My 336 conversion was made long ago by a now deceased gunsmith in Pensacola using new/old Marlin barrels. I have another one of his guns as well, a converted 36 Marlin in 32-40 (with a square bolt). 32-40 is a ballistic equivalent of 30-30; e.g 170-180 gn @ 1900 fps. I have brass for it but could also squeeze 38-55 down to 32-40.

Why 38-55?
This is an excellent cowboy-era middle range round that is ballistically similar to 7.62x39. It has a heavier bullet (245 gn) running at about 1900 fps. I have never hunted with it but can hit 12" targets at 300m with little trouble using a tang sight! Shoots essentially flat to 100m. Low recoil and with a nicely slicked Marlin action it stays on the shoulder as you cycle it. Last cowboy LR match I won using this 38-55; 5 shots on target @ 100yds in 6.5 seconds.

Kentucky RR: Go with the 38-55. You won't be sorry! Send it to Marlin.

Microgroove works well with jacketed rounds or slower lead rounds. Ballard rifling can handle anything including high velocity lead.

streakr

 

[Kentucky-roughrider]

Streakr,
I realy wasn't planinng on changing the caliber of my rifle, but I may have to go buy one to be changed, now. How would I send it to Marlin, send me a PM about.

What I meanted was more choices from Marlin?

 

[JustsayMo]

Kentucky Roughrider; I'm with you on the PG and Straight Stocks options. I prefer the straight stock versions, I have three. I'd probably still go with 30-30 even with the other choices though I've been tempted by the 35 Remington. I have 336's with Microgroove AND Ballard rifling. I've found I actually prefer the Microgroove- easier to clean and equal or better accuracy with lead bullets.

 

[jrinfoley]

My recently acquired Marlin 336RC in .35 Remington made in 1964. I got it from an estate for $200 and its in great condition!