The 336 Club
- Thread starter AStone
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Re: Marlin trigger wriggle
Fer gosh sakes, guys...it's not a BUG..it's a FEATURE. The way Marlin
lockwork is designed (simplicity itself) incorporates some 'lateral and
forward flexibility'. It's not a double-lever bolt-gun target trigger!
So long as it isn't loose or mushy to the rear, but has a firm initial
resistance and clean rearward trigger break with minimal backlash, you
are golden. Every Marlin I've ever handled (and it's been dozens) is the
same, or easy to correct to acceptable.
(Currently in personal inventory: M1895 .45-70 and M1894 .357 Carbine. formerly .35 Rem 336. Have worked on many other Marlins, other calibers.)
Fer gosh sakes, guys...it's not a BUG..it's a FEATURE. The way Marlin
lockwork is designed (simplicity itself) incorporates some 'lateral and
forward flexibility'. It's not a double-lever bolt-gun target trigger!
So long as it isn't loose or mushy to the rear, but has a firm initial
resistance and clean rearward trigger break with minimal backlash, you
are golden. Every Marlin I've ever handled (and it's been dozens) is the
same, or easy to correct to acceptable.
(Currently in personal inventory: M1895 .45-70 and M1894 .357 Carbine. formerly .35 Rem 336. Have worked on many other Marlins, other calibers.)
AStone
Member
Here's a question for lever owners.
I have my own answer to the question,
which I'll offer here at a later time.
But for now, I'm curious about yours.
In an age when bolt rifles can offer up
superior ballistics to .30-30
(think .308, .30-06, 7mm08),
why are lever rifles like .30-30 still relevant?
(Less interested in "historical" value,
more interested in utilitarian value.)
I'm especially interested to hear from lever gun owners
who do not also own bolt guns in those other calibers.
Why do you stay with those lever guns in lieu of bolts?
I have my own answer to the question,
which I'll offer here at a later time.
But for now, I'm curious about yours.
In an age when bolt rifles can offer up
superior ballistics to .30-30
(think .308, .30-06, 7mm08),
why are lever rifles like .30-30 still relevant?
(Less interested in "historical" value,
more interested in utilitarian value.)
I'm especially interested to hear from lever gun owners
who do not also own bolt guns in those other calibers.
Why do you stay with those lever guns in lieu of bolts?
Brassman
Member
I own levers because Roy, Gene, Hopalong, Randolph, Festus, Clint, Chester, Lash, Tex, Gabby, and please don't ever forget Chuck (as in Conners) all had them and used them. They're as cool as cool can be and nobody messed with 'em. Long live levers and the guys who own them!!!!!
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Well, it's hard not to love the traditional aspects. For me, that is a big part but not the only part. I find a marlin lever gun one of the best handling guns made. They balance beautifully when shouldered and just plain feel good in your hands when in the woods
. I'm not really in to killing deer at 400 yds. I prefer to kill them inside 150yds. All of my Marlin levers will easily kill them in this range. My new 308MX will safely kill them out to 300 yds if I desired it. I own bolt guns, but I don't hunt with them much.electrode1998
Member
Why 30-30?
Hey Nem.,
I guess for me I have always loved the feel of my leveraction. I feel it is an extension of my arms in the woods. I even like the feel of the rounds when I put them in the old 336. I do own a rem. 700 and I am looking forward to the day next year when I take it in the woods--after some range time. But for me there is just a confidence with that rifle that no bolt action has given me yet. That may change, but it will never go away.
Besides, even though my rem. 700 can kill a deer at 300-400 yards probably. I do not realy want to hike that far and more importantly drag it back that far. I prefer the challange of a 150 yard or less shot where you have to conceal yourself a little.
Hope this helps,
e'trode
Hey Nem.,
I guess for me I have always loved the feel of my leveraction. I feel it is an extension of my arms in the woods. I even like the feel of the rounds when I put them in the old 336. I do own a rem. 700 and I am looking forward to the day next year when I take it in the woods--after some range time. But for me there is just a confidence with that rifle that no bolt action has given me yet. That may change, but it will never go away.
Besides, even though my rem. 700 can kill a deer at 300-400 yards probably. I do not realy want to hike that far and more importantly drag it back that far. I prefer the challange of a 150 yard or less shot where you have to conceal yourself a little.
Hope this helps,
e'trode
Wolfgang2000
Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2007
- Messages
- 376
The 30-30 is, almost, the perfect woodland cartridge. With the advent of the Leverolution ammo makes it even better. IMHO they (levers) are a faster action than a bolt gun. They balance and shoot well and fast.
Back "in the day" they were the least expensive high powered rifle you could buy. Even now they are on the low end of the expensive scale. Plus there is just something "American" about the old trustworthy 30-30 lever action.
Is it a match rifle? NO! Are there better rounds out there? Yes! Yet STILL 30-30 take more deer than most calibers put together.
OH did I mention they are just fun to shoot!
Back "in the day" they were the least expensive high powered rifle you could buy. Even now they are on the low end of the expensive scale. Plus there is just something "American" about the old trustworthy 30-30 lever action.
Is it a match rifle? NO! Are there better rounds out there? Yes! Yet STILL 30-30 take more deer than most calibers put together.
OH did I mention they are just fun to shoot!
JustsayMo
Member
Virtues of the 30-30
I have a few centerfire bolts but the rifles I use in the field are leveractions. My reasons are as follows;
1-Portability of the platform. Since 99.9+% of the time you are NOT shooting while in the field having a platform that is easy to carry, comparatively light weight and relatively compact is a huge plus in my book. If I were on an expedition on foot and without the possibility of resupply I could make a good case for 30-30 ammo's relative size and weight compares well with its lethality/effectiveness.
2-Practicality: In reality few hunters practice enough to utilize the potential of cartridges ballistically superior to the 30-30 Winchester. A perfectly sighted in, ballistically superior rifle doesn't guarantee 200+ yard hits, especially under field conditions. I would be willing to bet that most successful shots, even in open country, are well within the capability of the 30-30.
3-Versatility: A handloader can easily create subsonic small game harvester rounds or hard hitting deep penetrating rounds for big game. There are many styles and weights of bullets that will work in a 30 caliber rifle including some lightweight cast pistol bullets. Even 0 buckshot over a few grains of Bullseye powder shoots well close ranges for plinking and vermin control.
4-Easy to shoot: The 30-30 recoil is low to moderate even in the typical relatively light weight rifle platform. Smaller folks can usually handle it so practice is more likely and marksmanship can be developed. Anyone who has seen a cowboy movie can probably figure out how to load and operate a levergun.
5-Economics: 30-30 is relatively inexpensive. I picked up some commercial Federal ammo this year that cost me less than $4/20 after rebates including tax. One can buy some military surplus ammo in various calibers for less but it is typically not as accurate nor is it suitable for hunting. Since 30-30 ammo is so cheap fewer guys reload for it so brass is often given away. Powder charges are generally 20 or more grains less than ballistically "superior" cartridges so one can reload 60+ more cartridges per pound of powder.
6-Accuracy: While working at our clubs range I see a lot of guys underachieving with ballistically superior rifles. I believe the lack of repetitions due to ammo expense and recoil are the primary reasons. I also see a good number of 30-30 shooters with well used leverguns that as a rule can outshoot the scoped bolt guys and I would add that is especially true when shooting from field positions.
Certainly the 30-30 lacks the on paper hype of many other cartridges. Why is it relevant? Because it works.
I have a few centerfire bolts but the rifles I use in the field are leveractions. My reasons are as follows;
1-Portability of the platform. Since 99.9+% of the time you are NOT shooting while in the field having a platform that is easy to carry, comparatively light weight and relatively compact is a huge plus in my book. If I were on an expedition on foot and without the possibility of resupply I could make a good case for 30-30 ammo's relative size and weight compares well with its lethality/effectiveness.
2-Practicality: In reality few hunters practice enough to utilize the potential of cartridges ballistically superior to the 30-30 Winchester. A perfectly sighted in, ballistically superior rifle doesn't guarantee 200+ yard hits, especially under field conditions. I would be willing to bet that most successful shots, even in open country, are well within the capability of the 30-30.
3-Versatility: A handloader can easily create subsonic small game harvester rounds or hard hitting deep penetrating rounds for big game. There are many styles and weights of bullets that will work in a 30 caliber rifle including some lightweight cast pistol bullets. Even 0 buckshot over a few grains of Bullseye powder shoots well close ranges for plinking and vermin control.
4-Easy to shoot: The 30-30 recoil is low to moderate even in the typical relatively light weight rifle platform. Smaller folks can usually handle it so practice is more likely and marksmanship can be developed. Anyone who has seen a cowboy movie can probably figure out how to load and operate a levergun.
5-Economics: 30-30 is relatively inexpensive. I picked up some commercial Federal ammo this year that cost me less than $4/20 after rebates including tax. One can buy some military surplus ammo in various calibers for less but it is typically not as accurate nor is it suitable for hunting. Since 30-30 ammo is so cheap fewer guys reload for it so brass is often given away. Powder charges are generally 20 or more grains less than ballistically "superior" cartridges so one can reload 60+ more cartridges per pound of powder.
6-Accuracy: While working at our clubs range I see a lot of guys underachieving with ballistically superior rifles. I believe the lack of repetitions due to ammo expense and recoil are the primary reasons. I also see a good number of 30-30 shooters with well used leverguns that as a rule can outshoot the scoped bolt guys and I would add that is especially true when shooting from field positions.
Certainly the 30-30 lacks the on paper hype of many other cartridges. Why is it relevant? Because it works.
AStone
Member
First, I forgot to say "thanks" to Slabsides (#1128) for the input on "loose trigger".
Second, re this exercise on "why lever" v "bolt", you folks are smokin'! Great responses. Mo, in particular, gets an A+ for such a thorough, thoughtful essay.
Really enjoying reading these; makes me appreciate my 336 all the more.
Nem
Second, re this exercise on "why lever" v "bolt", you folks are smokin'! Great responses. Mo, in particular, gets an A+ for such a thorough, thoughtful essay.
Really enjoying reading these; makes me appreciate my 336 all the more.
Nem
Brassman
Member
Cane
I don't want to start a revolt, but, actually I didn't forget Mr. Wayne. I meant to leave him out. My father-in-law who is 86 years old loves John Wayne and I'm so used to messing with him. I always tell him that Clint could whoop John Wayne's butt any day of the week. It never fails to get a rise out of him. I mean no disrespect, but I do like Clint better. Randolph Scott and Roy are still my favorites.
I don't want to start a revolt, but, actually I didn't forget Mr. Wayne. I meant to leave him out. My father-in-law who is 86 years old loves John Wayne and I'm so used to messing with him. I always tell him that Clint could whoop John Wayne's butt any day of the week. It never fails to get a rise out of him. I mean no disrespect, but I do like Clint better. Randolph Scott and Roy are still my favorites.
AStone
Member
Phew! B'man, you're brave.
I'm not a big fan of the Duke,
but we may be a minority in these parts.
I'm not a big fan of the Duke,
but we may be a minority in these parts.
JustsayMo
Member
Quotes
The New Way of the Wilderness, 1958 by Calvin Rutstrum
"Guns and ballistics have fascinated me since boyhood, and I hope this elemental pleasure will endure, for it has offered me a great deal of pleasure as well as kinship with others that only ballistics and a cozy campfire could possibly create. Such cartridges as the .270 Winchester, .300 H&H magnum, .30/06, and even some for the big-bore British favorites are as interesting to me as though magic were contained in these combinations of figures....
What has been the result? I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts by easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas. The .30/30 Winchester carbine is light, short, easily worked through dense forest areas and, when carried over arduous trails, lends itself well to canoe, pack-horse, and dog-team travel. Also it is vested with the crowning glory-the open hammer and the lever action, which symbolize the outdoors as do the pattern of a snowshoe or a canoe."
and,
Way of the Wilderness, 1946 by Calvin Rutstrum
"Gun lovers have their own guns and it is not well to argue with them. For many years I carried restocked Springfields, Mausers and others. Now I carry a 30-30 Winchester carbine with sling. The much improved cartridge in this weapon will stop a moose or a bear without trouble. The gun is small, light, has good balance for carrying, and is convenient. For safety the sling is looped around a thwart in a canoe and around a cross bar or a lash rope on a dog sled"
Link to a good Marlin 336 article: http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob95.html
The New Way of the Wilderness, 1958 by Calvin Rutstrum
"Guns and ballistics have fascinated me since boyhood, and I hope this elemental pleasure will endure, for it has offered me a great deal of pleasure as well as kinship with others that only ballistics and a cozy campfire could possibly create. Such cartridges as the .270 Winchester, .300 H&H magnum, .30/06, and even some for the big-bore British favorites are as interesting to me as though magic were contained in these combinations of figures....
What has been the result? I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts by easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas. The .30/30 Winchester carbine is light, short, easily worked through dense forest areas and, when carried over arduous trails, lends itself well to canoe, pack-horse, and dog-team travel. Also it is vested with the crowning glory-the open hammer and the lever action, which symbolize the outdoors as do the pattern of a snowshoe or a canoe."
and,
Way of the Wilderness, 1946 by Calvin Rutstrum
"Gun lovers have their own guns and it is not well to argue with them. For many years I carried restocked Springfields, Mausers and others. Now I carry a 30-30 Winchester carbine with sling. The much improved cartridge in this weapon will stop a moose or a bear without trouble. The gun is small, light, has good balance for carrying, and is convenient. For safety the sling is looped around a thwart in a canoe and around a cross bar or a lash rope on a dog sled"
Link to a good Marlin 336 article: http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob95.html
AStone
Member
Mas' article on the .30-30 helped sell me on a 336.
Wasn't the only factor, but it was a factor.
Wasn't the only factor, but it was a factor.
RandolH
Member
I give up. I'm going to the gun show next weekend to hunt for a 336 of some sorts.
AStone
Member
That's the spirit, RandolH!
Good luck finding the one you want. Let us know if we can help.
Good luck finding the one you want. Let us know if we can help.
JustsayMo
Member
NOT PC but who cares?
Not that I needed another 336 but I couldn't help myself... bought another straight stocked 336 for three hundred and thirty six bucks... Coincidence or fate?
I justify it by calling it my field rifle. Due to the shorter barrel 20" vs 24" on the CB) this one will see some field duty. Thanks to those that discouraged me from cutting down the Cowboy.
There is another 336 locally that is tempting me. Mistreated but inexpensive. I wouldn't feel bad using this one in the pouring rain...
Dang, these things are like women, easy to look at, fun to handle and you want to take em all home...
Not that I needed another 336 but I couldn't help myself... bought another straight stocked 336 for three hundred and thirty six bucks... Coincidence or fate?
I justify it by calling it my field rifle. Due to the shorter barrel 20" vs 24" on the CB) this one will see some field duty. Thanks to those that discouraged me from cutting down the Cowboy.
There is another 336 locally that is tempting me. Mistreated but inexpensive. I wouldn't feel bad using this one in the pouring rain...
Dang, these things are like women, easy to look at, fun to handle and you want to take em all home...
NeenachGuy
Member
Got a new 336W today!
Just picked up my new Marlin 336W tonight on the way home from work.
Sure, you can get superior ballistics in a bolt action, and there is merit to that argument. Putting aside the "because I like it" and "slice of history" and "Duke" factors (not an easy thing to do, mind you), however, I think the 336W gets the job done. It doesn't do every job, but it does what I need it to do -- and that's good enough for me.
Just picked up my new Marlin 336W tonight on the way home from work.
Sure, you can get superior ballistics in a bolt action, and there is merit to that argument. Putting aside the "because I like it" and "slice of history" and "Duke" factors (not an easy thing to do, mind you), however, I think the 336W gets the job done. It doesn't do every job, but it does what I need it to do -- and that's good enough for me.
AStone
Member
Neenach, thanks for joining us.
Congrats on the W.
Let us know how you like it, what you shoot, what kind of sights you're going to use, and stuff.
Congrats on the W.
Let us know how you like it, what you shoot, what kind of sights you're going to use, and stuff.
I must admit I like other types of rifles, yet my leverguns are my favorites. I have a CZ550FS bolt gun that I recently installed a nice ghost ring sight on, and it actually shares much of the appeal of a levergun for me.
The 336 handles very nicely. My shortened 336C shoulders quickly and as soon as the gun comes up I get a perfect sight picture with the XS sights. The 336XLR doesn't swing as quickly but has great balance for holding on target and a nice long sight radius.
I like that the 336 stock is perfect for iron sights yet can easily be used with a scope for those who want to go that route.
The lever action is a quick repeater that allows follow-up shots on game, and with the right ammo the 336 can be pressed into service as an effective defensive weapon.
There's really not a whole lot I don't like about the 336 other than the factory iron sights, which can easily be changed out for something better. It's a good design that is dependable, handles nicely, and is accurate enough to get the job done -- in fact Marlin's new XLR series stacks up against bolt guns in the accuracy department.
It's just right.
The 336 handles very nicely. My shortened 336C shoulders quickly and as soon as the gun comes up I get a perfect sight picture with the XS sights. The 336XLR doesn't swing as quickly but has great balance for holding on target and a nice long sight radius.
I like that the 336 stock is perfect for iron sights yet can easily be used with a scope for those who want to go that route.
The lever action is a quick repeater that allows follow-up shots on game, and with the right ammo the 336 can be pressed into service as an effective defensive weapon.
There's really not a whole lot I don't like about the 336 other than the factory iron sights, which can easily be changed out for something better. It's a good design that is dependable, handles nicely, and is accurate enough to get the job done -- in fact Marlin's new XLR series stacks up against bolt guns in the accuracy department.
It's just right.
ZeSpectre
Member
Talk to me guys... anybody used the .30-30 LeverEvolution ammo yet? I'm considering picking up some for my first deer hunt. (Of course that'll also be a good excuse for another range trip since I'll have to re-zero the scope <grin>)
JustsayMo
Member
Z check out the LE 30-30 review at:
http://www.realguns.com/archives/120.htm
My own experience with LE is that is is good quality, competitively priced ammo that typically shoots as well or better than most factory offerings and sometimes better than reloads.
The reason I buy very little of it is that the brass is shorter than standard in the calibers I've tried so it doesn't get reloaded... that is until Hornady offers the LE bullet as a component.
I only know of one animal take with it. Complete pass through with an impressive exit wound. The critter expired quickly after a short run.
http://www.realguns.com/archives/120.htm
My own experience with LE is that is is good quality, competitively priced ammo that typically shoots as well or better than most factory offerings and sometimes better than reloads.
The reason I buy very little of it is that the brass is shorter than standard in the calibers I've tried so it doesn't get reloaded... that is until Hornady offers the LE bullet as a component.
I only know of one animal take with it. Complete pass through with an impressive exit wound. The critter expired quickly after a short run.
electrode1998
Member
Hey Z,
I have shot several boxes in my 336 and I realy realy like them. I like the fact that if it is needed go get that deer, I can get it at 200 yards or further with range time. I have found it is a "hot" round and has more kick than the corelocks but it is all I shoot in the field.
Hope this helps and have fun,
e'trode
I have shot several boxes in my 336 and I realy realy like them. I like the fact that if it is needed go get that deer, I can get it at 200 yards or further with range time. I have found it is a "hot" round and has more kick than the corelocks but it is all I shoot in the field.
Hope this helps and have fun,
e'trode
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