According to news reports it was a third party who called the police. Might have called the police before she even put the gun away. Wouldn't hurt to call afterward though.
Things to Not Do
- Thread starter Kleanbore
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Scrapiron45
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Found an article about this incident in Bearing Arms by Bob Owens.
The man was never closer than ten feet and was passing by when he asked for a light.
She pulled a gun and verbally threatened to kill him.
A woman and child were in her line of fire.
Definitely on my list of things not to do.
The article goes on to stress the importance of training if you're going to carry a firearm.
The man was never closer than ten feet and was passing by when he asked for a light.
She pulled a gun and verbally threatened to kill him.
A woman and child were in her line of fire.
Definitely on my list of things not to do.
The article goes on to stress the importance of training if you're going to carry a firearm.
We are not discussing fear. The subject here is prudence.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is what ST&T is all about.
How so? Would your cash have been in a less safe location inside your "seedy Motel 8" it had been when you were outside your remote ATM after hours?
Nor did you shoot anyone, nor were you killed or injured. Does that mean that the strategy was a sound one?
But according to your account, you were exposed to potential violence. It is much better to avoid it.
What makes you believe that having divested your cash gave you a "safe night's sleep"?
Every treatise on violence and self preservation that I have seen tells us to avoid places like filling stations, ATMs, and quick shops in remote areas at with.
Tom Givens describes such places as oases on the Serengeti, where predators know to look for victims. The obvious survival strategy is to avoid them.
There is a well known adage that one's brain is one's most powerful weapon. It has different meanings. One of them surely applies here.
ojibweindian
Member
so what about "knock-out" games? let 'em get close for that, too?
Probably not a good idea for men to approach women they don't know in parking lots. Crime rates are going up, lot of increased media attention to crimes has people on edge, and parking lots are a frequent place that women go missing.
Of course not! Or any other apparent imminent violent criminal attack.
I wonder how many people have considered how to detect the onset of a knockout game attack, and what to do about it.
So we're going back to blaming the victim? I suppose you also would agree that women shouldn't dress provocatively so they aren't seen as inviting a sexual assault? Apparently before internet dating men and women met each other in places like supermarkets. It still happens all the time in the Hallmark Channel movies my wife likes to watch. An innocent encounter led to a man having a gun pointed at him. Perhaps it would be more tactical never to interact with others at all?Probably not a good idea for men to approach women they don't know in parking lots. Crime rates are going up, lot of increased media attention to crimes has people on edge, and parking lots are a frequent place that women go missing.
luzyfuerza
Member
This is quite an assertion:
Care to share?
I've seen no evidence here that supports it.
Care to share?
Share what I have not seen?
luzyfuerza
Member
I said that I had not seen any indication that anything the defendant said that would, in my opinion, have influence the outcome in the criminal case--and I have not.
luzyfuerza
Member
I went back to verify that I didn't miss any context in your post (#106) or any immediately preceeding it.
Please revise the text I cited according to your response. And then feel free to delete posts 133-137 if you like.
Please revise the text I cited according to your response. And then feel free to delete posts 133-137 if you like.
The Night Rider
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And you don't know not to go to stupid places at stupid times?
My comment remeains valid.
The video and eyewitness testimony indicated that
- The suspect drew a gun and pointed it at another human being, and
- She had no basis for a reasonable belief that a deadly force threat existed.
The Night Rider
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I think a very important takeaway from this discussion is that you may be absolutely convinced that you are 100% justified but if the court sees it differently you're screwed.
ojibweindian
Member
Care to elaborate? Because those tells aren’t always there.
Anchorite
Member
As in, “if the jury sees it differently…”
I think he did something stupid by approaching her in a parking lot. Little bit different if he had done it inside the store with other people around. I also think women should not dress provocatively as it might invite unwanted attention. The Hallmark movies you are watching are fiction.
I agree it appears the man did not intend harm. At least he says he meant no harm, and there is some eyewitness who believes that for what its worth. That doesn't change the fact that surprising people in parking lots is a bad idea.
It is safer just not to interact with strangers, unless absolutely necessary, and in this case it was not necessary.
I know you don't like my positions, and am OK with that, but my opinions are not going to be changed.
If there were no other people around where did the witnesses to the incident come from?
Didn’t you just say it would have been different if other people were around? Where did this witness come from?
So it’s acceptable to point a gun and threaten deadly force if you are surprised in a parking lot? The law doesn’t say that. Perhaps you should contact your legislator and see if you can get the law changed.
Ok, let’s lock society down again. Perhaps we should only allow electronic interaction between people. Text messages and email….
I’ve got a better idea. People who are unable to tell the difference between a normal interaction and an attack shouldn’t carry their gun when they go out. I swear I think between the news playing up crime for ratings and the self defense community teaching that every interaction with another person is likely to end in a fatal attack is creating a society of people who are scared of their own shadow.
Doesn’t anyone learn to read people anymore?
Old Dog
Member
Never thought I'd see forum members busting on one of our brothers for using an ATM late at night.
Guess life doesn't happen to those who never venture away from their computer keyboard.
Guess life doesn't happen to those who never venture away from their computer keyboard.
Maybe I misunderstood. I thought there was a witness that corroborated the man’s version of events.
As for your other comment regarding be surprised, I think we all know that you can’t draw a gun just for being surprised. But you can if a reasonable person would feel they are at immediate risk of loss of life and limb. I think that is why she presented the weapon.
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That's the problem, reasonable. The witnesses, police, and prosecutor didn't think a reasonable person would see this as a threat justifying lethal force.
To the forum in general, there have been a couple of threads on here in the last few weeks that give me cause for concern. If I walk down to the last pump at the gas station because that's the only one with paper towels, do I need to worry that an actual functioning adult is going to draw down on me for getting too close to his truck, and invading his personal space?
I'm honestly starting to worry as much about the grocery cart and gas pump defenders as the bums sleeping behind the gas station.
I think it’s important to maintain situational awareness in the situation you describe. If you approach my space to get paper towels that is great, nothing happens, and all is well. But people need to be prepared to defend themselves if the approacher has bad intent.
Yes, if others will believe after the fact that they, in similar circumstances and knowing what she knew the time, would have done the same thing. But they did not.
Aw come on!
it has been widely advised to not go to stupid places and do stupid things, and going to a remote ATM, etc. after hours is one of the prime examples.
