Warning about shotguns for home defense

[Dave McCracken]

Whew....

First, as stated, "Clearing" a house is not usually a good idea. Taking up a position between danger and one's family is much better.

Second, does anyone on this thread know Mr Patterning Board? At typical HD ranges, the spread of shot is less than a saucer wide.

Third, if any perp gets to grab a barrel, you've made a tragic mistake already. However, if a perp did grab mine, I'd simply drop. If he were able to hold me up by holding the shotgun barrel, shooting him will probably not inconvenience him much.

Otherwise, I'd fire as soon as the muzzle traversed any of his body parts and move on to the next threat.

As for scaring him with the rack, he won't be scared long. My guess, roughly .5 seconds. After that he will not care one whit.

 

[SoCalShooter]

If a bad guys hears the racking sound in my house it's because I just shot his buddy and he's next.

LAWLERS thanks for the laugh. Personally I keep a mossy 590 with the bayonet attached, chamber empty but ready to go just the same, I also know my house extremely well and can navigate it in the dark with few problems if any, I also have a pillow gun .45 and a tacticat. But like others have posted you have to prepare and train for the scenario.. Also keep a very bright tactical light with you I use a supertac and I have a surefire G3 on my shotgun, both are enough to light up an entire room. Also NEVER let'em get that close its your house and you should be able to keep distance between you and the intruder if you know where he is if not thats what the buttstock is for.

 

[Ricky B]

Because as far as I know *only Ithica fires as you slam the slide forward if you are holding the trigger down*.

I have read (but don't know for sure) that the old Winchester model 12's had this feature. Don't know if current models still do.

 

[TexasRifleman]

A friend encountered a burglar and there was a struggle over the shotgun.

There's a whole lot missing from the story. The TYPE of firearm in use does not seem to be the problem here. Burglary pretty much by definition means there is no one home so... you mean robbery?

"Burglary is typically defined as the unlawful entry into almost any structure (not just a home or business) with the intent to commit any crime inside (not just theft/larceny). No physical breaking and entering is required; the offender may simply trespass through an open door."

My friend said he considered firing but was afraid the shot would spread out too widely and possibly hit family members.

If a person cannot pull the trigger when the time comes then perhaps firearms should not be around at all.

 

[B yond]

Thank you!

I've been saying for a long time that shotguns are not the ideal weapon to confront an intruder with for that very reason. Shotguns are great home defense weapons when used properly, but that means barricading yourself and your family in a bedroom on the side of the bed opposite the door, with the shotty trained on the door and 911 on the phone.

If you're going to confront a bad guy or clear a building (not that that's a good idea), use a pistol. It is harder for an opponent to gain control of and can be fired from a retention position while you fight them off with your weak hand.

 

[XavierBreath]

Take a SD shotgun class, not a "safety class" but a real SD class.

Well said.

Tactics lost the day in this encounter. The same thing could have happened with a 9mm pistol, in fact worse.

If the intruder is lying in ambush beside the door you are entering through, what makes you think he will not get his hands on your 9mm pistol? When he does, he can and most likely will throw the slide out of battery, rendering the pistol inoperable.

This is a software problem, not a hardware problem. Your friend needs new software. He needs competent training in effective use of the shotgun for home defense. Then he needs to apply it. Classes are available.

Chances are your friend's attacker was within 10 feet of him while he held on to the shotgun. If he knew how shotguns patterned, he would not be "afraid the shot would spread out too widely and possibly hit family members.."

It never ceases to amaze me how a poor workman blames his tools.

 

[Colorado]

Paranoid? Get a dog!

I know the THR is a GUN forum and I am a gun guy, but what the hell are you so worried about?
If you are that G-D paranoid about someone coming in your home and shooting you, what are you up to?
You want to stop a "BG"????
First of all, leave your outside lights on, and then get a dog. As a former "BG", I never entered a home with lights on (on the outside), and never went near a dog. You should know, and probably do, that lights on, INSIDE your home only, was like window shopping.
Second is get a baseball bat and keep it by your bed, and your front door and a place or two where you know, and no one else does. I prefer the business end of a pool cue myself. If you hear something you don't like... swing away. You will hit a home run!! Talk about being stealthy! No "racking" or pumping.
And, for the record: the Cha-ching of a "rack", WILL make a BG sh*t his or her pants.
Sleep tight!

 

[BullpupBen]

1. Mount a bayonet, very very few are gonna have the balls to try and grab something that can easily be stabbed through their chest (and no worry about family members)

2. He should not have gotten that close to the BG anyway

 

[missouri dave]

I'll second that bit about the sound of the action being shucked actually working. Through a silly misunderstanding I once was on the recieving end of that. You WILL have the badguys complete and undivided attention.

 

[CWL]

("shotty" is SO immature and mall-ninjaesque)

oneounce, do you feel like a big man now? Do you run around gun ranges telling people what they are doing wrong (in your mind)?

I've been in combat, have you? I've also trained with some of the best firearms trainers living today both military and LE, have you?

I DO aim my shottie, that's why I have rifle sights on mine. For those hostage/barrier head-shots using 00 buck, I don't point.

It is my gun, I'll call it what I want.

If you feel the need to post anything, try adding some useful content...

 

[boalex207]

Dave McC

At typical HD ranges, the spread of shot is less than a saucer wide.

Dave, what are you calling typical HD ranges ? 20 feet and in maybe ?

 

[kcshooter]

Ineptitude with a shotgun can easily translate to ineptitude with a pistol. Your friend doesn't need a different gun, he needs training.

What was the warning part? That racking the slide doesn't always make them poop themselves??


(I also hate the term shottie. And Remmie, Winny, Mossy, any cutesy name for a gun is just plain goofy, in my opinion.)

1. Mount a bayonet

::sigh::

 

[Dave McCracken]

At 8 yards, my load of choice from a chokeless barrel is about 5" wide.That's the max shot possible in Casa McC.

As I've written more than once, best to MEASURE the longest possible shot opp in your domicile, add a yard and pattern loads at that distance.

Some of us worship at the altar of Maximum Spread. Some at that of Tight Patterns. I'm with the latter. I want ALL that energy concentrated in a small area of the CNS.

Let's review the Effectiveness Ladder.

From most to least.....

Big holes, center mass.

Small holes, center mass.

Big holes,elsewhere.

Small holes, elsewhere.

Scare him with the noise or just show him the Kewl Pics of your "Shotty" you posted on the Net instead of shooting the thing.....

 

[dmarbell]

Racking a pump

I sleep upstairs. If I woke up and heard a BG downstairs, it seems to me that a loud racking of a pump would accomplish a couple of things.

1) if the BG was a burgler only, without firearms and without intent to harm, just to burgle, then the racking sound might deter.

2) the racking sound would alert the BG to the location and type of firearm, and then he might,
A) come to find you, which in your own home could give you an advantage, and eliminate the need for house clearing, or
B) stop to wait for you to clear the house, at which time you would be calling the police.

Keep in mind when I would rack the slide, I would already be in a defensive position with the bed between me and the door, with my phone already dialing 911.

I can't see any reason not to rack the slide. It's easily accompanied by a loud shout of "I have a gun and I will shoot you, and I've called the police." If they advance and I miss with 5 rounds of shotgun shells, 7 rounds of .380s, 6 rounds of .44 magnum hollow points, 6 7-round magazines in my .45 GI with one in the chamber, I'm toast.

Danny

 

[Crazy Fingers]

Unless you got a huge house or very long hallways, the shot isn't going to spread that much. It's not like it's going to fly out of the muzzle at a 30 degree angle to the point you are aiming at or something.

As for him grabbing the muzzle... slice the pie. And don't do it right next to the corner.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

When possible I gotta go with the dog recommendation. Great if you have a K9 sentry outside your house and great to have one or more inside. They see, hear, and have a better sense of smell than you ever will. No BG wants the attention and there should be plenty of time to chamber a round once the alarm is sounded if that's how you prefer to keep your weapon staged ..and not much real chance of needing it provided the BG has any survival sense at all.

 

[Rshooter]

I liked what Colorado said. Maybe I am overboard. I have five big dogs, not pit bulls or rotwellers, just mutts that others have chosen to dump in my yard. You will not get into my house unannounced. I will have time to load the howitzers.

 

[powermad]

This has been my house gun for over 10 years.
One in the chamber and safety off.




You have to plan for these type of things. Sad but true.

I not only have a fire plan but an intruder plan as well.
And if the toolbox gets opened, everyone knows how to get busy.

 

[powermad]

Dogs as a deterrent?? What about us poor slobs that don't have that luxury?

Oohh more lights that will keep em away.
They aren't bogymen that vanish with the light.

And while you are on 911 explaining that your call is actually an emergency and getting transferred around to whoever gives a crap, just keep hollerin that you have called the police and they are on the way.

I have a new dog.

 

[Fred Fuller]

One in the chamber and safety off.

I seriously hope that was a typo... otherwise it's an accident/tragedy waiting to happen.

lpl

 

[Matt-J2]

I don't see how, but ok, I guess.

 

[moga]

A friend encountered a burglar and there was a struggle over the shotgun.

I'm much more interested in hearing the exact details of how how your friend encountered this burglar. It will likely reveal a lot more noteworthy lessons than second guessing the choice of his weaponry.

I'll also second the poster that says if he's close enough to grab then its been long time to shoot.

Yet, there's something that I find curious. Why were his family members around when he "could have" shot but not helping to corral the burglar? What was he doing, clearing the house with his pop-pop and nanny? Was this a home invasion hot burglary? It doesn't sound like it from your account. Why would the family be present when the struggle is taking place? Not calling BS but it smells a little fishy.

To those that say a pistol is the better HD choice. I would say it depends on the layout of your house. For instance, I have many open spaces in my floor plan and few corners to navigate as a result. If it were the closest at hand, I wouldn't mind grabbing the 590 to check things out. Then again, the only time I leave the master to investigate is if I hear something outside. Sixteen zones of monitored alarm and two freely roaming bullmastiffs inside will tip me off if something ain't right in the house, in which case its time to barricade, not investigate.

In fact, the pistol does usually gets the nod while running a perimeter check.

 

[Murexway]

"I have five big dogs, not pit bulls or rotwellers, just mutts that others have chosen to dump in my yard. You will not get into my house unannounced. I will have time to load the howitzers."

The Romans used geese for the same purpose....

 

[Murexway]

"One in the chamber and safety off."

Lord help you!

 

[SwampWolf]

Racking a shotgun for sound effects only says to the bad guy, "Hey, I'm over here!"

As a retired le, my experience has been that drugged up and/or crazies pay no mind to the "clack-clack" of a pumpgun being readied for service. It only tells them where you're at- a location I'd much rather keep to myself.