What could be done differently -- Non-Guns Color Coded?

[wannabeagunsmith]

Absolutely! When it comes to the safety of children, YES! Anything and everything should be done that is humanly possible to protect them.

Yeah, but you can't blame the object. The liberals don't see a reason to keep "assault clips" around. But they completely miss the fact that in reality, they are very useful to most gun owners.

 

[Sam1911]

And, again, we keep returning to the idea that the kid was dumb, the kid didn't know any better, the kid was somehow not acting deliberately. The kid needed to be protected from the consequences of his poor choices.

I don't think that's so. It appears to me the kid knew what he was doing, was on a mission with a goal in mind, and premeditated, prepped, and executed his plan right through to a successful completion.

He held his destiny in his hands, made his choice, and got what he wanted.

It is sad. But it isn't a gun safety, or gun education, or product safety issue.

 

[Sgt_R]

These are all REAL guns:

So not only do you need a law to prevent people from making their toy guns look like real guns, you also need a law to prevent people from making their real guns look like toy guns. And that still won't stop criminals (including, but not limited to, suicidal teenagers) from painting their guns to look like something they're not.

Face it, additional legislation is not the answer to this problem.

R

 

[9MMare]

Good points.

I just can't imagine a kid that age wanting suicide-by-cop, but if not that, what on earth could he have been thinking? Just can't believe someone being that stupid.

From what I've read so far, it's premature to just assume it was 'suicide by cop.'

Teens, young people in general, often think they'll live forever. They dont believe something bad will happen to them. In his mind, he probably just brought the gun in to scare other kids and since it wasnt real, he didnt believe the cops would shoot. Or got so scared he didnt think straight.

I'm agreeing with the Darwinism line of thought tho.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Absolutely! When it comes to the safety of children, YES! Anything and everything should be done that is humanly possible to protect them. I teach all my kids firearm safety and how to handle firearms to PROTECT them. Take away the curiosity factor and show them the destructive force of firearms and you will have a well taught child that will respect them and handle them safely.

Oh really
well
give up your pool
give up your tub
give up your car
give up the bikes
as a matter of fact you will now wear a foam rubber padded suit, live under constant video surveillance and safety/ risk briefings for everything, along with a risk analysis, so one for each step, yeah, that sounds like your wet dream, safe kids and all that**

please remember this was one of the anthems that got us the Brady Bills, the 'Assault Weapons Ban' and the entire state of Kommifornia's 'reasonalbe' gun laws.

OK, do you see how stupid that sentiments is
it DOESN'T MATTER what he used to suicide, it could have been his shoe laces OR driving his car into your at 100 going the wrong way.

behaviors can't be regulated, or everybody would follow the law and we wouldn't have any crime.

 

[Bubbles]

Toy guns that look like the real thing have been around since kids played cowboys and indians with cap guns over 50 years ago. The genie isn't getting stuffed back into that bottle.

Also, real guns can be had in custom colors - neon pink, orange, yellow, etc. - if not from the factory, then thanks to duracoat. Do we make it illegal then for real guns to be limited to black/gray/chrome?

 

[Noah]

((To those of us who have relatives or friend that are medically mentally retarded, all improper use of the term is offensive. It is not seen as a simple term to describe stupidity, but rather the condition of my uncle who will never have a family, a job, the ability to speak, or fully express himself in this life. I am not angry myself, but use of the term as an insult can really upset people in my situation.
Please do not reply to this section of my post, no further comment is needed.))




Thoroughly moving on, could it be that the kid was bullied and did what he thought was best to "bully" his bulliers? Scare them with the best weapon he could scrounge up? He couldn't have bought it himself, he may have borrowed it from a friend without his parents' knowledge or permission.

To repeat everyone else, almost all problems "solved" by gun control are behavior problems that are little affected by the laws and limitations. "Color-Coding" does more harm than good. This problem isn't even related to toolset. He could have had a real gun, an airsoft gun, a hunk of wood, a knife, a sword, a stick, and it wouldn't have changed much of anything. The only variables in this situation are all human, when he chose to bring a weapon, when he chose to brandish the weapon, when he chose NOT to drop the weapon...

 

[heeler]

Noah,everything I read about this is the very first thing the kid did was punch a class mate unexpectedly.
At that point he probably took care of a bully if in fact that was the case which I doubt.
Sam's explanation is unfortunately the more plausible answer.

 

[Noah]

Unfortunately, I agree. You can always hope that non-self inflicted suicide was not his goal, but it is entirely plausible. Then again, that makes so little sense to me , but, then again, I doubt it does to anyone.

 

[mgmorden]

Stuff happens. You can't legislate away tragedy in life. if they "color coded" these things then anyone who truly wanted it to look like a real gun could do so with a $2 can of spray paint. Heck I've did this myself with toy guns before just to use with a Halloween costume.

Part of the problem in our society today is that every time something bad happens we want to "make sure this doesn't happen again". We want to "fix it". The truth is that's chasing an impossible goal. Sometimes you just have to grieve and clean up the mess. To do more is to simply intrude in everyone's lives with no beneficial impact.

 

[JRH6856]

...nevermind

 

[hso]

I understand that this is tragic, but the only person at fault here is the kid and his parents.

If real guns don't cause crime then how do replica guns cause crime? It isn't like there's an epidemic of this taking place. This is just one tragic case.

There's no problem to be fixed.

 

[9MMare]

I understand that this is tragic, but the only person at fault here is the kid and his parents.

If real guns don't cause crime then how do replica guns cause crime? It isn't like there's an epidemic of this taking place. This is just one tragic case.

There's no problem to be fixed.

As extreme as it sometimes seems, this is one reason why there is a zero tolerance policy on guns in (most) schools....no guns of any kind, real or otherwise.

 

[Sam1911]

As extreme as it sometimes seems, this is one reason why there is a zero tolerance policy on guns in (most) schools....no guns of any kind, real or otherwise.

Wait, did this kid violate the zero tolerance policy too? Oh my. He's in trouble now.

 

[hermannr]

Since when did any law PREVENT any bad behavour? Doesn't happen. Those that care would do whta the "law" prohibited anyway. Those that don't care, even with a law against it, still don't care.

BTW: a 15 year old is not a "kid". Young man or young woman, but not a "kid". This whole "juvenile until you are 18" stupidity needs to go away. Many other cultures are much more honest and acknowledge adulthood at a much younger age, like even as young as 12.

Do young people do stupid things? sure, so do "adults". The answer is taking responsibility for your actions, something our children (and grandchildren) are not taught much any more.

No, I am not young, I'm retired and on SS.

 

[PowderMonkey]

If it would keep a child safer by these toys being bright freaking purple with neon signs saying "I'M A TOY GUN then hell YES. I couldn't give one tinkers damn what adults want to choose to play with in their little weekend warrior games. If a grown ass man wants to carry a toy around and play big shot then so be it. My problem is with KIDS taking these things out and getting shot because of it! There is not ONE SINGLE damn use for these to be so realistic looking.

Your handle is "Freedom Fighter" and yet you want to take away the freedom to produce realistic toy guns...? So you only fight for freedoms you believe in - gotcha...!

 

[Zombiphobia]

It has everything to do with a young person seeking and finding a way to make a dramatic exit.

And you know this for a fact how, exactly?

 

[Zombiphobia]

Has it been covered yet on rather or not this kid was special ed or not?

How many of you would still say a mentally challenged juvenile was making a dramatic exit, committing suicide, well aware of his actions etc..? Just curious, since nobody here knows exactly why he acted so stupid and it's all speculation and judgement based on what we ASSUME to be 'fact'.

It is sad. But it isn't a gun safety, or gun education, or product safety issue

Maybe not a product safety or gun safety issue, but it's definitely a gun education issue.

His parents are whining about why the police killed their son... they obviously are not well educated on the subject since pointing a firearm at someone is generally perceived as a life-threatening gesture. Not "brace yourself for the punch".

 

[19&41]

If all the manufactured toy guns are taken off the market, Young folks will take up making them themselves, such as this homemade pistol.

http://smashingtops.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/6.-john_dillinger.jpg

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

I see 2 things that need to happen, 1- Find a way to seriously differentiate these things from the real thing so they are easily identifiable by LEO's. 2- Parents need to start realizing that these things actually CAN get their kids KILLED.

Ok I have seen MANY trying to point to me as some sort of anti. Could ANYONE please point out where I have said to legislate, make illegal, or ban a damn thing? Nope you can't. I DID say that I personally see no reason for toy guns to look so realistic and I have YET to see anyone give one single intelligent answer to that question. If you actually go back and READ what I wrote and attempt to comprehend it, you will see that what I am proposing is trying to find a way to easily differentiate (tell them apart for those that seem to not be able to grasp that word) these things from the real thing. And for parents to get the fact that yes, while they are just toys, they CAN be seen as a deadly weapon and they have gotten kids killed so teach your child some damn responsibility or don't buy them one of these things! Why is it you guys wish to jump so hard on the "freedom" wagon whenever someone is just trying to come up with an honest concept to TRY to make our kids a bit safer?

The case I posted up first may not be the best example of what I am trying to get at here. I found 73 examples from 1983 to 2008 of EXACTLY what I am trying to get at on this link, the second of 11,110 hits when I Google "Child killed while holding a toy gun", Some examples were kids thinking they had their toy gun and they actually had gotten hold of a real one and such. http://www.irol.com/avc/fact_sheet_about_toy_guns.html Read a few of those and get back to me about how the toy isn't part of the problem. If after reading those you still feel that way, then you have no concept of the real world.

And to those of you equating this to "Assault weapons bans" and instances like that, you have obviously not read a damn thing I have written in this post.

I am NOT saying ban the damn things, although I still see no reason for a kid to be given free reign with one, but what I AM more or less saying is try to modify not only the toys but the PARENTS with warnings and such. I know parents today are nowhere NEAR what they should be in the form of discipline and teaching their kids right from wrong, but this is just a simple problem with the MAJOR possibility of tragic results.

 

[billib]

Just thinking back to all the toy hollow, green plasitc handgrenades I had in the sixties, wonder that i'm still alive.
No sympathy here. Years of American policies coming to fruition. It's always someones else's fault. Thank you LBJ.

 

[Sam1911]

Maybe not a product safety or gun safety issue, but it's definitely a gun education issue.

His parents are whining about why the police killed their son... they obviously are not well educated on the subject since pointing a firearm at someone is generally perceived as a life-threatening gesture. Not "brace yourself for the punch".

O.k. But that's still not a gun safety issue. This wasn't a gun safety problem. This was apparently a young man who set out to do something and did it.

Teaching him over and over every single day how NOT to do something wrong with a gun wouldn't have kept him from choosing to do this. If anything, it would have only make it ever more clear exactly HOW to pull it off.

 

[Sam1911]

And for parents to get the fact that yes, while they are just toys, they CAN be seen as a deadly weapon and they have gotten kids killed so teach your child some damn responsibility or don't buy them one of these things! Why is it you guys wish to jump so hard on the "freedom" wagon whenever someone is just trying to come up with an honest concept to TRY to make our kids a bit safer?

But that's not what happened here.

1st of all, they claim that they never would have given him the thing, period.

Second, this does not appear to be a tragic mistake where the poor kid got shot 'cause folks couldn't tell he had a TOY.

He seems to have intended this outcome. Are you saying a PURPLE gun ... and a $2.00 can of black spray paint ... couldn't have produced the same outcome?

And how "crazeeee" does a gun have to look for the cops to know for sure it isn't real? Look at any number of new firearm designs, and all the DuraCoat type coatings.

This is an impossibility you're arguing for.

And you're STILL looking for a physical solution to a problem without one. When a young person (apparently) CHOOSES to take this action, no amount of product neutering is going to stop it from happening. Won't even slow it down.

 

[9MMare]

Wait, did this kid violate the zero tolerance policy too? Oh my. He's in trouble now.

You seem to be writing faster than your brain can process.

I can barely interpret your response and any way I try, it makes no sense in context with the post I replied to re: zero tolerance policies say 'all guns' real or not, because it's not reasonable to expect people to differentiate, including cops.

Unless it was sarcasm for sarcasm's sake. If so, save it for someone who'll appreciate it.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

And you Sam are STILL not reading what I write!!! Do I need to slow it down for you? You aren't usually slow. I'll post yet again and embolden it for you so you won't miss it.

The case I posted up first may not be the best example of what I am trying to get at here. I found 73 examples from 1983 to 2008 of EXACTLY what I am trying to get at on this link, the second of 11,110 hits when I Google "Child killed while holding a toy gun", Some examples were kids thinking they had their toy gun and they actually had gotten hold of a real one and such. http://www.irol.com/avc/fact_sheet_about_toy_guns.html Read a few of those and get back to me about how the toy isn't part of the problem. If after reading those you still feel that way, then you have no concept of the real world.