What's this CZ hype all about?

[SharpsDressedMan]

I really don't know about the current crop of CZ 75 genre of handguns, but I have owned several pre-B models over the years, given two as gifts (son-in-law and another good friend), and my brother also has a pre-B that he parkerized and put micarta grips on...a very business looking pistol. I have also owned a Retro, but it needed a trigger job out of the box, and Miossi Gun Works worked it over (before his prices went up a considerable amount). It was nice, but due to the "B" style lockwork, it was never as smooth as the pre-B models are when they are broken in. The "B" system also has a half cock, and firing pin block, so they are safer in general, but at the sacrifice of the butter smooth and long trigger of the early guns. Feed and functioning has never been much of a problem with the guns that I have owned, and my cousin has has had no complaints with his standard 75B in six years. It is possible that QC has slipped over the years. I have this gut feeling that if a person locates a nice pre-B, and maybe changes out the springs to insure all are up to correct power, an adequare to superior example of the CZ design would result. I just don't like the 75B trigger, but cannot comment on the Omega as to whether it is better or worse.

 

[tekarra]

Sharps,
That is a fine looking short rail.

 

[boostedxt]

I had a CZ40P one time...I sold it......I found another one and had it for a while and then sold it to a friend.... I have been trying to find another one because I missed it. I decided to talk to my friend and I traded my Taurus 24/7 Pro, 2 Mags, a box of 100 rounds, and a holster for the CZ. I will never get rid of this gun.... In my opinion the CZ is reliable, crazy accurate, and very comfortable. Plus its awesome to look at and super easy to break down and clean.

I love it....CZ cool aid? I drank it. If you wanna know why that other guy says CZ stuff is hype..just read his sig and look at the 3 guns he owns. that explained it for me.

joe

 

[CZF]

IN rep-ly to the Zed thread/.

1.

Are you sure the Canucks were shooting real deal CZs?

They could have had Norinco NZ75s and you wouldn't know
the difference.

2. Canadians can't carry concealed, so IF they were real CZs, they
were probably modified gamer guns.

I don't think they can even own the P-01 or PCR due to barrel length.

3. As for any Glock and CZ trigger comparison.

I've always felt that Glocks are cheater guns.

Give a Glock Guy a DA/SA gun in a tight spot, and he will be like
a fish out of water.

Anyone catch the Glock shooters on Top Shot trying to shoot the
Beretta?

That 5.5 or lighter trigger pull on a Glock in a nice feature, but
if you ever have to shoot with a true DA or DOA gun your are screwed.

Master the DA auto and you will be able to be proud of yourself.

Whether you agree with me or not, the Safe Action is a crutch for some
shooters. I could say the same for most striker fired guns as well.

I do agree that CZ rimfres are among the best sub-1,000 rimfires.

I'd also say that rating CZs in general as basically crap because
of 4 suspect pistols is not good judgement.

Put a SP-01 or P-01 in a dedicated CZ shooter's hand and watch the
brass fly!

 

[armoredman]

Ok, 400 rounds? I will see about casting 400 bullets this week, loading up 400 rounds, and see if my P01 burps. Not jacketed, LRN. I will show honest results, good, bad, and ugly, but I can also guarentee the gun will start off clean, and will be cleaned and relubed when it's over, too. Might take me a bit to get that loaded, though - I use a single stage and a two cavity mould.

 

[CZF]

Dave, feel free to jump in.
\\
http://pistol-training.com/archives/3218/comment-page-2#comment-5325

There are no CZ ignorant, just the uninformed.

 

[armoredman]

I thought it was 400 rounds, no round count listed, so I asked. I also posted I asked CZ-USA to send a current production pistol to a disinterested 3rd party for "torture testing", and asked for the results from the Czech military tests that replaced the Glock with the Phantom. We'll see.
In the meantime, I will cast/load those 400 as I am able, and try to shoot as many as I can in one day.

 

[CZF]

The real skinny is that most of us baby our beloved CZs.

There will always be the people out there that po0-p00 a certain
brand or model and not even handle or fire one.

I think this Todd guy made a professional observation of
4 CZish pistols, as no one identified an actual CZ (75, 75B,
Sp-01, or PCR/P-06, ect.)

And reported on what he saw.

Being in Canada, he was probably seeing junker 10 round mags in
in-action.

I urge him and others to pick up a real deal CZ like a P-01 and
some actual 14 round CZUB made mags..go to the range.

First time buyers or first time shooters;

"Wow, it fits my hand like nothing else!

Amazing accuracy!

Ran through all of my ammo and begged for more!"

I see some re-known Instructors knocking CZs, but also know they
are mostly uninformed to a great degree.

Basically, the worlds of the CZ handgun is dark and mysterious to them.

They change their tune after firing one.

There was only one Perfect man. So how could a mechanical tool be perfect?

The CZ crowd is maybe a bit quick to anger, but they are strong defenders.

CZF was created to both unite CZ owners across the world and
to educate those using others brands but want something better.

I think that with over 15,000 members in almost 10 years..it has truly turned some
heads (and hearts) toward the See-Zed.

Keeping the CZ banner flying proudly!

KEV

 

[armoredman]

Telling comment, that the shooter with the Shadow was using non CZ aftermarket altered Tanfoglio magazines, and possibly one other CZ was also using Tanfoglio magazines. Also, he said only two of the four shooters in question were there for four days, two of the others were there only two days, but I didn't read whether it was the lonely Tanfoglio that stayed with him or not.
In any case, round count was 1900 rounds in four days - I don't think I have that much lead to cast 1900 slugs right now! Guess that will be one heck of a marathon casting session!
Oh well.

 

[Philo_Beddoe]

Telling comment, that the shooter with the Shadow was using non CZ aftermarket altered Tanfoglio magazines,

Lolz, I would like to see how reliable a glock would be if you were using aftermarket altered sigma (glock sucessfully sued S&W over patent issues due to the sigma being so close) mags lol.

The tanfolgio is a copy, but not a clone, the parts are not interchangeable.

 

[armoredman]

His article is falling apart with his buddies "help". Only one CZ pistol, the one with the bad extractor, was there all four days. Then, one CZ was used only one day, then the following day it was replaced by a Tanfolgio. So the claim that four pistols failed over four straight days is seriously "inconsistant". He also stated any pistol that can't be depended to go bang is a paperwieght, and a few posts later insulted every 1911 afficianado by stating he has seen only a few come through his classes without stoppages. I asked to see the article calling the 1911 "crap". Betcha I never see that one.
CZ-USA stated modern production CZ pistols ALL go through the same testing as described for the P01, BTW.
Fascinating. His "buddy" needs to stop "helping" him.


Edited to be more polite.

 

[CZF]

Yes, I'm not surprised that they were using the wrong mags
even the 10 round CZ made mags give fits to some shooters in CA, and Cananda.

I can't imagine what aftermarket TZ ten rounders in a real deal CZ would be like!

Suddenly, the ugly Ford Pinto is turning into a Rally winning SKODA racer!

Performancz!

 

[LibertySympathizer]

3. As for any Glock and CZ trigger comparison.

I've always felt that Glocks are cheater guns.

Give a Glock Guy a DA/SA gun in a tight spot, and he will be like
a fish out of water.

Anyone catch the Glock shooters on Top Shot trying to shoot the
Beretta?

That 5.5 or lighter trigger pull on a Glock in a nice feature, but
if you ever have to shoot with a true DA or DOA gun your are screwed.

Master the DA auto and you will be able to be proud of yourself.

Whether you agree with me or not, the Safe Action is a crutch for some
shooters. I could say the same for most striker fired guns as well.

Not saying you don't have a point, but I got the impression that the guys issue had less to do with the trigger, than with having issues with the different grip angle.

The one competition they were all making precision shots and almost all of them manually cocked the hammer and fired SA.

 

[briang2ad]

Late in the thread this broke into a DA/SA discussion. The ORIGINAL CZ was designed to be a versatile blend of Cocked and Locked OR DA/SA - you got to pick in the same gun. The CS 75 based gun presented a 'shootable' DA pull and sometimes VERY smooth. It also had a shootable SA pull albeit it had a camming thing in the early stage of the pull. The trigger was inferior compared to a SIG or Smith, BUT, most folks could still shoot it VERY accurately,

Then CZUB became enamored with the inferior carry features of the needless decocker in the PCR and P01 models. The decocker mechanism was in a poor place for high thumbs, and both it and te DA pull could be gritty. IN fact, I think the triggers went down hill a bit in this period. The P01s in particular (I tried to own three) had stiff and very gritty DA pulls - ya know - the first round. Their SA pulls were 'variable' - sometimes they cammed sometimes they broke 'clean'. The decocker mechanism made it HARD to work on, so IMHO, I think the system was inferior to the old manual safety which allowed the user to "go both ways". BTW - I DO think training DA/SA is HARD.

Then, as many others, CZUSA prices jumped about 30%, and the triggers were still inferior to some others.

Now, and to alleviate this, CZ is offering a changeable system in the Omega trigger. This MAY solve the issue, but we'll see.

Again, the triggers are shootable, just not as good OTB as say a SIG in either DA or SA. They can be worked on, but that is an added expense.

I'd LOVE to see the P01 with a manual safety, but will have to WAIT ans see the P02 with an Omega unit. If the P01 had a manual safety (yes you can decock safely and easily with your fingers), it may be the perfect compact pistol.

But I still like the four CZs I own.

 

[armoredman]

And I love the deocker, carry both P01 and PCR, both work great, with no issues. The top shot carries a ProTek 1, based on the PCR, as his carry gun here in AZ. I don't find the lever to be poorly placed, but that's my opinion. Everyone has thier own, and diversity rules the world. If we all liked the exact same guns set up the exact same way, the SHOT show would be very boring....

BTW, P02 is most likely NOT going to be coming in to the US this year...dagnabbit.

 

[Cactus Jack Arizona]

CZ's are like Lay's Potato Chips. Nobody can own just one. I've owned a CZ 2075 Rami, 75BD, and a P-07. All of them have been traded for one reason or another. The Rami I owned about two years ago was way too finicky for carry and the problems it had never were solved. I assume that it was the first year model and therefore still had bugs to be worked out.

The CZ 75BD I owned had a problem with the trigger/hammer and I didn't feel like messing with it.

The CZ P-07 Duty was a nice looking gun and comfortable to hold. However, I didn't like the way it felt when I shot it. I'm not much for plastic guns.

Since then, I hit the reset button on the CZ collection. A few months ago I bought a replacement CZ 75BD and I just love it. Deadly accurate and with a fit and finish that is spot on. It also functions perfectly.

Once I start working again I will be in the market for the CZ 2075BD Rami. I also want the CZ 75 D PCR and one of the SP01 models.

 

[CZF]

That's the spirit!

We hear nothing but the best about the RAMI BD.

Other than the high cost (Because of the factory Nites) they have very happy owners.

After 7 years with the RAMI alloy model that has ran perfectly
with all ammo except the ultra hot stuff.

I'm ready to go RAMI P for my next CZ.

However, I urge any Cz fan to look hard at the PCR.

Not much heavier than the RAMIs, but give you a full grip and longer barrel.

My wife's PCR has the best stock trigger of any CZ I've owned or handled to date. The gun is sweet as can be. Just a little long in the
butt for ccw once you have carried a RAMI


I can say the same for my P-01 and newly arrived P-06.

 

[boostedxt]

i guess maybe i am crazy...but I think my CZ40P has a awesome trigger. *shrug* I am very accurate with it and I can feel it break and reset easily. I either got lucky or am dumb as bricks. either way...I love my CZ.

joe

 

[vidi0t]

@ SharpsDressedMan. I also have a high polish blue short rail. I would love to learn more about yours. It looks like it's a 1977 model. Quite rare as only 2000 were made that first full production year. You are the only other 1977 owner that I've come across so far. Anyway, I'd love to see more pics and find out more about it. Very nice indeed.

 

[briang2ad]

My trigger comments are in GENERAL. The PreBs were generally better - especially their DA pull. I've picked up some CZs which had better OTB pulls than others. But, while I never owned a SIG or SW, ALL that I've tried OTB at shows, stores, etc had generally better pulls than CZs - and consistent.

This does not mean you can shoot the gun better, but it does give you more confidence, and potentially more accuracy.

If you use a high thumb/hand hold, and you point them fwd, the manual safety lets you rest it right against the frame just above the safety - exaclty where it should be. Because of the high external rails of the CZ, this gun IS the best hands down on a high grip - over any other wondernine. WHen you add the decocker you CANNOT have your thumb against the nice flat side of the frame. It does get in the way. Can you shoot it? Sure. BUt it ain't the same. Again, the design was MEANT for a manual safety - period. I will say that the Omega model alleviates this, and makes the decocker system easier to operate if you must have the decocker.

 

[Sam1911]

I will say that the Omega model alleviates this, and makes the decocker system easier to operate if you must have the decocker.

I'll ruefully submit that the Omega model seems to alleviate any possibility of a reasonable trigger pull as well ... though I'd be ecstatic to be proven wrong.

 

[armoredman]

Sam, some feel that the Omega gives a better SA pull, and a slightly worse DA pull. Mine on my P07 really doesn't seem to be better/worse than any else around.
If I want to shoot a glass rod, don't-sneeze trigger, I'll go pop rounds with my Smith Model 10, which was obviously worked on sometime in the distant past before I got it for my stepfather so many years ago. It has a DA/SA trigger to make strong men weak.
I keep saying this, not everyone likes every gun, and everyone's opinion is colored by personal experiance.
For instance, I will never own an HK USP. We had 6 on the rental range I worked on 8+ years ago. Less than a year after we got them 4 were back at the factory being repaired, and one of the two left was getting ready to go back. The Tucson Police Department armorer came over about twice a week to test fire repaired USPs, and the Dept eventually switched out to Glock due to thier breakage. One officer came in right after work to fire a few with his duty gun. It failed to fire every other round, and this was the gun he had just worked shift with. He was rather pale when he left the range.
Does this mean HK makes garbage? Heck no, I'd love to have an MP5/10, and a P7 would make me a happy camper sitting in my very modest collection. But my personal baised unscientific experiances/observations with the USP mean that I have zero desire to own or use one. Me, myself and I, not you, you, OR you. This is just an example, not meant to start any HK bash/love thread.
Some don't like the way CZs are set up, that's OK, I do. Some don't like decockers, that's OK, I do. Here's my stance/hold, and the decocker is not in the way, for me, at all.



This doesn't mean that anyone who does it differently or likes different firearms is wrong, or that thier personal opinions are better or worse than mine. As long as they are listed as such - opinions, not thrown about as verified facts, with no evidence supporting them other than casual observations, otherwise, I would have stood here 9 years ago proudly proclaiming all HKs are junk, and you should never bet your life on one, and with the same amount of evidence as the author of the article in question, perhaps, considering the PD experiances, even more. As an RSO for an indoor range, one of only two in Tucson for years, (when it's hot, as it is for most of the year, people shoot indoors), I have seen a lot of lead go downrange, and watched every manufacturers guns fail. Other than Jennings, I don't remember ever using that casual observation to proclaim that one maker or another is total junk. IIRC, the only guns on the rental shelf that never failed were the Ruger autos, the one rental CZ 82,(we didn't have any other CZ rentals), and the Smith 38 revolvers. Everything else, Glock, HK, Springfield, Para, etc., failed in one way or another.
Subjective opinion without scientific testing/results is exactly that - subjective opinion. And mine is my CZs do a fine job on my side and on the range. As the internet saying goes, your mileage may vary...but my personal experiances make me say I will bet it won't.

 

[Sam1911]

Well, I hope I'm not coming off as a CZ-hater or even just too much of a whiner!

I think what kills me is how much I DO like my -75B, even though the trigger is SO bad. (I took top score overall with it Sunday at my club IDPA match -- with 39 shooters attending.)

But, to illustrate, I was chatting about it at practice with a long-time shooter I know who's a Beretta 92, SIG, and (of all things) CZ-40 shooter and he took a turn with mine. After the third attempt at making the DA pull, he just stopped and handed it back saying, "Naaah, maybe I'd better not."

I think I'm hoping to stumble on someone who's actually gotten their Omega worked on and that I'll find out that there is a reason to keep it until I can afford Angus' magic. So far, though, nada.

 

[armoredman]

Sounds like yours does need work, I never had that issue. Angus does incredible work, I can attest to that having personally tried some of the trigger jobs his crew have done. I might have my PCR worked on by them sometime for grins and giggles, when I can afford it as well.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I had a CZ Retro, which is one that looks like an early model, but has the "B" internals and is otherwise a "B" except for aesthetics. The trigger was terrible. I sent it to Miossi and it came back with one of the finest DA/SA trigger jobs I have ever felt on ANY auto, and the SA was about 2 3/4lbs, and broke like glass...actually TOO light for defensive work, but dynamite for target or competition. He's a little pricy, but if you want the best, and still have a gun that comes in under or equal to an HK or SIG, then take a CZ and spend $$$ o nthe action, etc. Miossi is so in demand, he doubled his price several years ago to meet the workload. CZ-USA will be cheaper, and I am sure they are good. Difference is probably like comparing a Vette to a Ferrari.