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Who uses a weaponlight on their medium-size CCW?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by cogun4hire, Apr 11, 2019.

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  1. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    All a see in your post is that you are:

    1.) Cheap.

    2.) Too lazy to consider getting trained. Or too cheap to get training.

    3.) Closed to new ideas, or ideas that do no conform to your pre conceived notions.

    4.) Afraid to explore new ideas or concepts due to the fear of admitting you were wrong, or finding out they you aren’t as good as you think you are. Taking classes with other serious dudes, from a serious expert is an ego check. Most can’t overcome that hurdle even if funding and time aren’t an issue.
     
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  2. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    Mua?

    You shouldn't assume to know the level of training of anyone here you don't know personally.

    Back to the subject, I still do not understand how one can search dark corners of his house with a WML without also pointing his gun at unknown targets. Potentially family members.

    If you can great for you. I just don't get it and it seems like an unnecessarily unsafe practice around one's family. Like playing swat at their expense.
     
  3. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    If I had been taught that using a WML required roaming or flagging family, I wouldn't use one either. Fortunately, whoever gave you that idea was mistaken. A WML need not, and should not, be used in such a manner.
     
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  4. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    Who are you replying to?
     
  5. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Two key points some folks here seem to be missing:

    1. You DO NOT have to point the firearm AT someone to illuminate them. WML’s have a very wide light spill

    2. You CAN and SHOULD also have a handheld flashlight with you so you can have the option of looking around with your flashlight without having to draw the weapon.
     
  6. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Here is a really good review of a small but powerful and versatile light for compact size firearm (or larger). Olight PL Mini 2 Valkyrie 600 lumens, momentary on-off. Many holsters available from Amazon

     
  7. ingliz

    ingliz Member

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    Sad but true.

    Research by the FBI has shown that having a gun in the home and waving it about when a burglary occurs increases the risk of you dying. Statistically, you would be better off letting them take what they want and claiming on the insurance.
     
  8. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    Sorry for the OT reply to the OT post, but.....

    The problem with statistics is that, by manipulating the parameters, you can pretty much slant them to whatever POV you want as a conclusion.

    I wonder what the the statistics reveal when the homeowner is familiar with, has proper mindset, and is capable of actually shooting their firearm versus the scared person who buys the gun because their neighborhood goes to ****, but never spends time considering how using their firearm might actually play out and actually does some shooting with it?
     
  9. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    All valid points. Let me add

    5.) Don't get trapped in an LE/MIL paradigm.

    There are few who have spent more time studying the use of firearms by concealed carriers than Tom Givens. I linked a Rangemaster article of his earlier in the thread. Here's some more from Tom Givens

    "When Citizens Fight Back" https://americanhandgunner.com/featured/when-citizens-fight-back/

    And this one because it allows me to grab the quote I wanted from the Rangemaster article, but couldn't copy and paste.

    Citizen Defender https://civiliandefender.com/2016/04/01/low-light-red-sights-and-tom-givens-glock-35/

    Your particular needs may be different and a weapon mounted light, or night sights may be a necessity, but for most concealed carriers, it is unlikely to be a need.
     
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  10. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    Ben86

    The guy who thinks using a WML will get him killed in the streets, and is convinced he can’t use the spill on a light to ID targets, or use a handheld light with WML. He also seems convinced that he cannot keep his booger hook off the loud switch on his blaster if he does have to use the WML, and will therefore shoot his family as he wildly waves the weapon and light all around.

    This is a perplexing issue it would seem for him. How do you even use a firearm in the home if needs be for self defense if you’re terrified of flagging areas your loved ones might be in? Are you going to take a defensive position and leave the pistol, carbine, or shotgun at the low ready, slung, or holstered? Nope, and if you do you’re a moron. So that means if you’re moving in the home/structure the gun should probably be up and anywhere you look, the muzzle should follow. Ever watch a SWAT team, or .mil unit engaged in CQB enter a building expecting trouble or engaged in a fight in the building? Guess what, walls, doors, corners, stairways, basically anyplace a baddie can be gets flagged with the muzzle. No one who is a trained individual is doing that with a weapon at low ready.

    Within the confines of your own home defending it, your problem is potentially simplified since you know the layout, where loved ones should be or are likely to be, and you may not need to significantly reposition or search the house. Just because you’re not kicking the door down and entering with a team doesn’t mean the other basic problems are not the same though. Namely scanning for a threat, ID’ing it as a threat, and then taking care of it with the tools you have.... ain’t nobody doing that without looking around, and no one is doing that without the muzzle of their weapon going where their eyes go. Otherwise you are burning precious time on a very very unforgiving clock.

    Long story short, you’re going to probably have to flag some stuff, and maybe some people with your weapon. That’s why training to have a lot of discipline to keep your finger off the trigger until you have an ID and understand your back stop is important. This is not a square range with a RSO proctoring you, the nice rules of safe gun handling are going to be bent a little on the not pointing weapons at things you are not willing to destroy. You’re going to lean heavily on the others to prevent that unwanted destruction.
     
  11. Al-jim19

    Al-jim19 Member

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    Cite?

    To whom ever believes that in order to use a wml you have to point it into the unknown, try this:

    Go into an interior room with the door closed and the lights off. Turn on a bright flashlight, 300 lumens (a common tac light) will light up everything no matter what direction it’s pointed.

    Safe.
     
  12. ingliz

    ingliz Member

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  13. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    Can you quote the part that says that the presence of a handgun during a burglary increases mortality risk? I read the page but didn't see that. Usually robbery is defined as thieving where the victim isn't present, so I also kept an eye out for the same claim made in reference to robbery. No luck, but like I said I'm interested in learning more. Thanks!
     
  14. ingliz

    ingliz Member

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    Increased risk of death?

    "Studies that have examined the risk of either violent victimization or perpetration at the individual level show relative risks between 1.4 and 2.7. Our findings are also in this range."

    Referenced Study (14):

    Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, Rushforth NB, et al. Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home.
    N Engl J Med 1993; 329: 1084-91.

    "We found no evidence of a protective benefit from gun ownership in any subgroup, including one restricted to cases of homicide that followed forced entry into the home and another restricted to cases in which resistance was attempted."
     
  15. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    Oh no, I hope you aren't one of those get you killed in the streets guys! ::rofl:

    Look you've stated your reasons to use one and I have stated my reasons to not use one. No need to be defensive about it.

    I prefer to have my handgun in a compressed low ready position and light in the other. If there is a valid threat I press my gun out and work from there. I find it to be the best balance of safety and combative tactics.
     
  16. Labguy47

    Labguy47 Member

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    As others have previously stated only on my bedside gun.
     
  17. uofaengr

    uofaengr Member

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    It's not a real carry gun these days unless you have:
    1. Maglite size WML
    2. RMR
    3. Front slide serrations
    4. Compensator
    5. Stipple job
    6. Other assorted Dremel modifications to grip and/or frame
    7. A trigger other than factory
    8. A holster defined as a "rig" to carry said war piece

    Missing anything? ;)
     
  18. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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  19. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    Ah yes the Roland Special. Chuck Pressburg’s brainchild created pretty much specifically to make fun of certain shibboleth’s of the CCW community. Then it was discovered that the damn thing actually works really well and can be concealed.
     
  20. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    I was unaware it was developed "tongue-in-cheek". I was always of the understanding it was created as a functional exercise.
     
  21. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    I watched a podcast that Chuck was on and if I recall it was as kind of a demonstration that all the naysayers about lights, optics, and comps were wrong. An elaborate “told you so” and dick joke all in one.

     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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