Why am I more accurate with .45 ACP??

[HKGuns]

I'm waiting for my CCW processing and have been shooting a variety of different weapons trying to decide what is right for me.

I've tried;

Glock (Don't like too wide)
SIG (like them but a tad bigger than I like)
HK USP (Love it, pefect fit)
Para (Hate the trigger, I find myself looking at the hammer as it goes back)


This purchase will be my first pistol purchase so I am very inerested in getting it right. I've shot 9mm, 40 S&W and .45 ACP primarily. Here is where it gets interesting. I shoot the .45 far more accurately than the other two rounds. My skill with the 9mm is horrible. 40 S&W better than the 9mm but not as good as the .45. I've been dead center on targets at 25-30 feet nearly every time I pick up a .45. I would think just the opposite would be true as the .45 has the largest amount of recoil.

I was convinced a .40 S&W was going to be the caliber for me....But I'm starting to wonder. I need the gun to be hide-able for CCW and the larger .45 frames make me think I won't be able to conceal it as well.

But anyway, any thoughts on why the inherent tendency to shoot the .45 better? I'm not real big....(5' 5" 150#) Does my size have anything to do with it? Could it be as simple as the rentals aren't accurate?

I was all set to get either the USP .40 or the P2k .40, but am wondering if I should consider a .45 ACP since I seem to shoot it so much better.

 

[Ala Dan]

.45's are very popular here in the southeastern United States.
In 1911 fans, you will find the Springer crowd, the Kimber crowd,
the Para crowd, and the Colt crowd. I must admit, a few Glock
luvrs will be seen scattered throughout the crowds as well.

Personally, the .45 ACP is easier for me to shoot. I don't have
to put up with the blasts and recoil of the HOT .40 S&W. I
guess I like big, fat, slow projectiles that make BIG holes in
paper. That way, I can stand at the 25 yard line and tell just
where my shot's are going. I contribute the .45's accuracy
to several factors; including the weight (36 to 39 ozs) of
most 1911's, or the 27 oz SIG-SAUER P220A. Besides that
there is a wide selection of good quality ammo available;
not to mention the wide selection of handloading components.

Every now and then, I will pick up my West German SIG-SAUER
P228 9m/m; just to stay proficent, but .45 ACP is MY favorite
by far.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[JPM70535]

A lot of shooters find the 45 acp to be more accurate and easier to shoot than either the 9mm or 40, and I count myself among them. As to the concealability factor, I carry an Officers size 45 ( Para 7-45 LDA) and find that it conceals easily under a T-Shirt. I don't know if I would carry my Sprringfield in the same manner as my Para since I just find it little unnerving to carry a cocked ad locked 45 (The only proper way to carry one) next to my body either with or without a holster. That is just a quirk I have developed over the years and even though I know the safeties on the Colt style 45s eliminate the possibility of an ND, I just feel better with a hammer down carry.

 

[halvey]

Why did you think the .40 was for you? Just curious.

I used to think the same too.

 

[JoeHatley]

The "platform" probably has the most to do with you shooting the .45 acp more accurately. However... don't discount the positive re-enforcement of seeing your previous good shots on target. Those .45's make nice big holes, that give immediate feedback.

Joe

 

[HKGuns]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

It very well could be the big holes in the paper offering positive re-inforcement. I couldn't see the 9mm holes very well. There aren't a huge number of ranges near me, but I will try a different range and see what that does for my shooting. One of the closer ranges recently burned down. (Arson, the owner was shot they stole a large number of weapons and burned the records.)

I "thought" the .40 was for me because it is the in between round and I liked the feel of the Beretta .40 I shot as well as the recoil. I like the idea of having nearly the stopping power of a .45 in the frame of a 9mm. It seems like it should be the perfect CCW platform. I shot a lot of .45's in the military and the recoil was a distraction and made it difficult to shoot accurately at any rate of fire.

There doesn't appear to be much difference between the recoil of the .45 and that of the .40. In fact, the .40 is a little bit snappier and the .45 is more of a push.

I'm going to try and lay my hands on a USPc .45 and see how it feels and shoots. The USP is by far the most comfortable gun in my hand. I don't think a 1911 is for me as it would be difficult for me to conceal on my small frame.

 

[MrAcheson]

.45 being the recoil king is overblown. It certainly has the 9mm beat, but with .40 S&W you're getting close to the same level of impulse. Plus the speed of .40 means that its a sharp recoil like 9mm only harder. I'd thing it would be the harders for most folks to shoot.

 

[Morgan]

Shoudek -

As a dedicated USP fan (daily carry is a USP45 full size) I must say that a 1911, full size or commander size, will be easier to conceal than a USP, full size or compact. It's the thin design of the Colt that makes it carry so nice.

With a good belt and holster concealing the USPf is easy. I recommend the Uncle Mike's belt, for about $40. Looks good, durable, and stiff.

I settled on three holsters for my USP that have different levels of concealment. My normal one is the Blade-Tech standard belt holster, with the FBI cant. Very comfortable, fast, and concealable under an untucked shirt or jacket. For better concealment I use a FIST close cropped pancake, from www.gunnersalley.com. For the most concealment (untucked T-shirt or the like) I use a Blade-Tech IWB holster.

FIST double mag pouches are concealable and comfortable, as is the Don Hume mag/Surefire combo, both from www.gunnersalley.com.

Good luck - let us know what you end up with.

 

[Dienekes]

I have long found the .45 ACP to be a much easier round to shoot well with than the 9mm. (My experience with the .40 is very limited but note that no one ever seems to brag about the level of accuracy they get with it...)

I am not alone in this as most of the better pistoleros I know have found that the same is true for them. I don't doubt that if you get exactly the right combination of load and gun on just the right day the 9 will do well. Unfortunately the stars don't often come into that precise alignment for me and my groups reflect it.

The .45 ACP has a long, long track record in the accuracy department and is, I think, inherently just a more accurate round. I have been using the same two basic loads for many years, and I always get what I deserve from them if I do my part. Sometimes better than I deserve.

I continue to fool with the 9mm in a BHP, but the bottom line is that I shoot the .45 1911 better on a bad day than I do the BHP on a good day.

Just one of those things.

 

[SAMHANE]

I'm the same way shoudek I'm better with a .45 than a 9mm or .40 and when I shot the .357, .44, and 500 magnum I shot well and hit exactly what I was aiming for I guess the bigger calibers just agree with my grip and I over compensate with the smaller calibers

 

[scromp]

100% agreed on the USP. I love my USPc 9mm but it is NOT a concealed carry gun for me, it's like wearing a cement block.

 

[HKGuns]

Morgan,

Thanks for all the information. Can you please clarify this statement?

With a good belt and holster concealing the USPf is easy. I recommend the Uncle Mike's belt, for about $40. Looks good, durable, and stiff.

What are you referring to when you mention USPf??

 

[Morgan]

USPf = full size. USPc = compact.

 

[DMK]

I love shooting my 1911s which are my only 45ACP guns and don't see much difference in recoil between them and shooting my alloy framed CZ40B which is my only 40S&W gun. I'm confident in my abilities to shoot them accurately (I shoot 45ACP or lately .40S&W in USPSA matches). I'm as confident as one can be with any pistol that these will do the job to stop an attacker if needed.

However, I can shoot 9mm better than the bigger caliber guns. After shooting those guns for a while, my CZ-75 feels kinda like a little pop gun. Perhaps it's just because it's a big gun for the caliber. Even better than that is .38 Special out of my big 6" S&W N frame Highway Patrolman.

It very well could be the big holes in the paper offering positive re-inforcement.

You shouldn't be looking at the holes in the paper. You should be focused on the front sight. Don't even worry about the holes until you've holstered your weapon and retrieved your target.

 

[nitesite]

"You shouldn't be looking at the holes in the paper. You should be focused on the front sight. Don't even worry about the holes until you've holstered your weapon and retrieved your target."

Perhaps his reinforcement was after holstering, and then examining his target.

It has been widely quoted that a famous gunfighter who shall go un-named once said (and I'm paraphrasing...)

"First choose your cartridge, then decide on the gun."

nitesite

 

[nitesite]

Some people do tend to do better with one or another, be it the caliber or the platform.

It might be your hand's comfort level on the grip, the angle of the grip to the barrel and how it relates to your hand/arm angles and tension, the height of the barrel in relation to the sights and your grip.

Well said, Furious Styles. Well said.....

nitesite

 

[gazpacho]

Sounds like you have similar problems with handguns as myself. Because of your smaller hands, double stack magazine grips are just to with to get a positive hold on the gun right? Also, you prefer the recoil of the 45 because it is more like a big shove than a 9mm which is more like a slap. Recoil and grip size make the 1911 platform better for you.

With reasonable ammo choices (a good expanding bullet) anything from 38 Special on up should be sufficient.

I have three guns that I go to, depending on my carry situation.

1) Springfield 1911A1, Nightstand duty, and when I got plenty of concealment clothes.
2) Taurus Model 85, Fanny pack carry or belt holster, for limited or no concealment clothes.
3) Kel-Tec P32, House carry, Backup Gun. Last ditch primary carry.

I want to bring attention to the Taurus. A steel snubbie revolver loaded with 158gr +P Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point bullets with a good choice for concealed carry. 38 Special is a very accurate round. In fact, I'm actually more accurate with my 38 than I am with my 45s. Also, a fully loaded steel snubby will weigh half as much as a fully loaded 45.

 

[spacemanspiff]

all things gotta be equal before you can adequately compare them.

for example, if you are proficient with a 1911-style .45acp, but not so with a sig 9mm or a block, you are comparing apples to oranges.

when i shot a sig and hi-power side by side, the hi-power was far better in my hands. i could shoot both accurately, but with the sig i wasnt accustomed to the trigger.

and thats typically the key. how much takeup? overtravel? clean break?

put a block in my hands and for one thing, it just dont fit. a 1911 feels great though. there is also the issue of comparing polymer-combat-tupperware to the alloys of a 1911.

felt recoil in my kimber is far greater than a glock 21.


now, if you had two springfield 1911's, one in 9mm and one in .45acp, which one would be more accurate in your hands?

or if you had a g19 and a g21, which one is more accurate in your hands?

 

[Nick96]

Accuratly placing a shot on target with deliberate, aimed fire is one thing. Accurately hitting mutiple targets, moving targets or targets at different distances under different lighting conditions at speed is another. If you are considering a gun for CCW - then accurate hits in the latter situations are going to be of most importance. And, the only effective way to develop such accuracy at speed is through practice.

Thus economics come into play. If you invest in re-loading your ammo, frequent & realitivly inexpensive practice is possible. However, if you buy factory loaded ammo, you will soon realize there is a BIG cost difference between 9MM, .40 and .45. Around here, 9MM can be had for around $5.00 for a box of 50. The same number of equal quality .40 or .45 is two, three or more times more expensive. 100 to 200 rounds of 9MM for the cost of 50 .40's or .45's - what's going to give you more "trigger time" for the buck?

As far as inherent accuracy goes, again that depends in large part on practice and to some extent on the launching platform. I'm most accurate with .22's & 9MM. But then again, I shoot many more of these rounds than I do of any other caliber. Is that me, the gun or caliber? I expect it's more me & the gun than the caliber.

As for the effectivness of 9MM - Vs. - .40 - Vs. - .45, I'll not debate that. But as a practical matter among the majority of self defence uses of all of these calibers - I've concluded that there's not a dramatic difference between any of them. The more skilled & confident shooter seems to prevail most often regardless of the caliber used.

 

[Spitfire]

Ammo Cost

When it comes to the protection of my family or myself, the consideration of which ammo is cheaper is not on my mind. What is on my mind is what ammo will do the best job in protecting my family or myself. Which of these choices of best ammos do I shoot better and which gun is the most reliable. I shoot and carry a 1911 with Golden Saber JHP I have a high capapacity 9mm and it stays locked in the vault the 45 is on my nightstand at night I shoot the 45 better, it is easier for me to get off a second and if needed a third shot faster and more acurately with it. If you want to put a price on your life go ahead.

 

[Spitfire]

Ammo Cost

When it comes to the protection of my family or myself, the consideration of which ammo is cheaper is not on my mind. What is on my mind is what ammo will do the best job in protecting my family or myself. Which of these choices of best ammos do I shoot better and which gun is the most reliable. I shoot and carry a 1911 with Golden Saber JHP I have a high capapacity 9mm and it stays locked in the vault the 45 is on my nightstand at night I shoot the 45 better, it is easier for me to get off a second and if needed a third shot faster and more acurately with it. If you want to put a price on your life go ahead.

 

[Nick96]

Price Vs. Knock Down Power:

The point of my previous post was - being proficient & confident with any caliber handgun usually trumps launching platform & caliber. I.E. "I'd rather be missed with a .45 that hit with a .22".

Most every time I go to the range there will be a few people that drag out gigantic .45's, .40's, .357's, etc. and manage to place less than half their shots into a COM target at 15 yards with slow, deliberate fire. After 50 or 100 rounds (about 30 minutes or less), they pack up and leave. Typically I shoot several hundred rounds at a session (2 or 3 hours). Aimed fire, point shooting, strong & weak hand DA only, alternating targets, etc. I'm no Wild Bill Hickock, but I manage to get 90%+ COM hits.

Thus, I have to conclude that most people are as or less skilled than the majority of folks I encounter at the range. Therefore, I figure my chances of being hit by one or two shots thrown at barely more than contact distance is probably pretty low. However, I am fully confident that I can quickly place my first round into a 6" circle at 15 yards with whatever handgun I have. I am confident of this because I have done it thousands of times. So multiple the cost per round by thousands - not hundreds - and you see my point.

ALL handgun calibers are pretty poor "one shot stoppers". If you are really concerned with effective home defence weponry - you're better off with a large bore pump shotgun than almost any firearm available for civilian use. Your options narrow when talking about CCW. Argue all you want, but the best .38Spl, .357, 9MM, .40 & .45 loads are all acceptable self defence loads. Selection of a convenient to carry, reliable & accurate CCW launching platform becomes a more critical factor. "The only gun that's any good is the one you have with you when you need it". This typically translates to small & light. Small & light requires practice to get good with (regardless of caliber). Practice means lots of shooting. So cost per round becomes a significant factor (for most folks concerned with personal protection but who are not necessarilly "into" guns).

 

[taliv]

like most of the folks who have responded, i shoot better with a .45 than 9mm, but the thing I'll add is that i shoot BEST with a .480 ruger

you probably couldn't carry one (mine's a taurus raging bull with 8 3/8" barrel, feels like it weighs 30 lbs loaded, and I'm using 400grain gold dots),

unless you're from a cool state like TX or AK, or unless you weigh 500 lbs and have lots of folds big enough to hide artillery or something , but try shooting it sometime anyways. it's a hoot

oh, and if you did carry, don't worry about the fact that it only holds 5 rnds... i usually have to rest my wrists after 3 rnds anyways

(also be careful about state laws, which may require that you paint a little slanted black/yellow stripe pattern on the flat part of the front of the bullet with the words "wide load")

 

[roo_ster]

if you are proficient with a 1911-style .45acp, but not so with a sig 9mm or a block

block/glock: was that a typo or an editorial comment?

I kinda concurr...the G(B)lock has its virtures, but elegance is not one of them.

 

[CommanderPoopyduX]

To me 10mm or 357 sig both offer a very fast and accurate projectile that will definately make an impression on anything they hit....especially the 10 mm.