Why didn't they call the .357 Magnum the .38 Magnum instead?

[Aim1]

Both .357 magnum and the .38 Special can be shot out of a .357 Magnum. The .38 Special was invented well before the .357 Magnum in 1898 while the .357 Magnum was invented in 1935.

This may sound stupid by why didn't they call the .357 Magnum the .38 Magnum instead?

 

[Scooter22]

I'm thinking so there was no confusion between the rounds.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Both .357 magnum and the .38 Special can be shot out of a .357 Magnum. The .38 Special was invented well before the .357 Magnum in 1898 while the .357 Magnum was invented in 1935.

This may sound stupid by why didn't they call the .357 Magnum the .38 Magnum instead?

I would guess that aside from being a decidedly more accurately named number, there were already some 10 or more .38 & .380 rounds on the books. While several of the .38s cause endless consternation with some folks... NO ONE ever troubles over confusing a .357 (.38 Magnum) with anything else. Remember as well, there was already a .38 Super or Super .38.

Another factor involves whether or not one chose to side with the groove-diameter contingent or the bore-diameter contingent in naming a caliber. And then, there's the groove to opposite land odd-balls to contend with.

Todd.

 

[JohnKSa]

There are reasons, but for every reason someone could give, there are exceptions that would seem to invalidate the reason. The bottom line is that when a company or person invents a new cartridge, they get to name it. Sometimes the names make a lot of sense. Sometimes they don't.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I think you have to track it back to the origins of the 38 Short Colt which was the parent to the 38 Long Colt, which was the parent of the 38 special.

The original heeled bullets for 38 SC appear to have been 0.375” in diameter and the neck diameter of the cases was 0.379. So probably just rounding back in the day.

Then Elmer Keith did some Elmer Keithy type stuff and likely wanted to better describe the cartridge and differentiate it from its much lower pressure brethren.

That’s all conjecture, but the bottom line is 357 is accurate and 38 isn’t.

 

[mcb]

Big image!

https://i.imgur.com/s7eMZze.jpg

NOT my image and I have lost the reddit thread were the creator shared it. Still gives you an idea of the sorted history of the 38 cal revolver cartridges.

 

[Pudge]

I think it was the same reasoning they used when they didn't call it a .358 special.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

It's because the .357 Magnum is named by more modern standards/metrics of bullet diameter.

The .38 special wasn't as it is a .357 bullet.

From Wikipedia:

Despite its name, the caliber of the .38 Special cartridge is actually .357 inches (36 caliber/9.07 mm), with the ".38" referring to the approximate diameter of the loaded brass case. This came about because the original .38-caliber cartridge, the .38 Short Colt, was designed for use in converted .36-caliber cap-and-ball Navy revolvers, which had cylindrical firing chambers of approximately 0.374-inch (9.5 mm) diameter, requiring heeled bullets, the exposed portion of which was the same diameter as the cartridge case.

Except for case length, the .38 Special is identical to the .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, and .357 Magnum.

 

[BigBore44]

.....And then there was the .429 magnum.

 

[jmorris]

Because they didn’t think to call it the 357 Blackout.

 

[fxvr5]

The bottom line is that when a company or person invents a new cartridge, they get to name it. Sometimes the names make a lot of sense. Sometimes they don't.

Yup. Like the 960 Rowland.

 

[film495]

.38 Special used the naming convention for black powder rounds
.357 Magnum used the newer naming convention for smokeless powder rounds

Why one is called Special and one Magnum, well … I'm sure there are many stories and tales.

 

[fxvr5]

.38 Special used the naming convention for black powder rounds
.357 Magnum used the newer naming convention for smokeless powder rounds

The 38 Automatic (circa 1900) and 380 Automatic (circa 1908) were first loaded with smokeless powder, yet they retained the 'old' naming convention in spite of using .356" bullets. And as pointed out above, the 44 Magnum (circa 1955) kept its 44 caliber name in spite of being .429" and it was created well after the 357 Magnum (circa 1935).

 

[sparkyv]

one word...Marketing.

 

[Walkalong]

It sounded cooler and more powerful.

 

[MistWolf]

I think you have to track it back to the origins of the 38 Short Colt which was the parent to the 38 Long Colt, which was the parent of the 38 special.

The original heeled bullets for 38 SC appear to have been 0.375” in diameter and the bench diameter of the cases was 0.379. So probably just rounding back in the day.

Then Elmer Keith did some Elmer Keithy type stuff and likely wanted to better describe the cartridge and differentiate it from its much lower pressure brethren.

That’s all conjecture, but the bottom line is 357 is accurate and 38 isn’t.

This is the most correct answer in the whole thread.

 

[Rule3]

That’s all conjecture, but the bottom line is 357 is accurate and 38 isn’t.

A 38 is not accurate??
Then why do so many shoot 38 special bullseye??

 

[Rule3]

The same reasoning they call the 380 the 380 It is still 9mm

Other names for .380 ACP include .380 Auto, 9mm Browning, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Short, 9×17mm and 9 mm Browning Court (which is the C.I.P. designation).

 

[mcb]

A 38 is not accurate??
Then why do so many shoot 38 special bullseye??

Accurate description of bullet diameter...

 

[Kleanbore]

I think you have to track it back to the origins of the 38 Short Colt which was the parent to the 38 Long Colt, which was the parent of the 38 special.

The original heeled bullets for 38 SC appear to have been 0.375” in diameter and the bench diameter of the cases was 0.379. So probably just rounding back in the day.

Then Elmer Keith did some Elmer Keithy type stuff and likely wanted to better describe the cartridge and differentiate it from its much lower pressure brethren.

That’s all conjecture, but the bottom line is 357 is accurate and 38 isn’t.

Well put.

And there's one other thing. The old .38 Long chambers would accept longer cartridges.

Not a good idea.

 

[Kleanbore]

The same reasoning they call the 380 the 380 It is still 9mm

In the US, the metric designations were almost never used for semi-auto cartridges, or for any other handgun cartridges, for that matter.

 

[mavracer]

Well when you design/invent/create something you can pretty much name it whatever you want.
If you want you can design a handgun with identical chamber to a 357 magnum and call it a 38 magnum, feel free to make matching ammunition.
There are plenty of examples of cartridges with more than one name. EG Colt wouldn't use the WCF moniker so 32, 38 and 44 WCF became 32/20, 38/40 and 44/40 respectively.
ETA the 38WCF should be the 40WCF but was given the 38 moniker to give an illusion of more separation since actual difference is only .027
The 244 Remington flopped due to the twist not being adequate for the heavier deer bullets, was renamed 6mm Remington and given a faster twist.

 

[Jim Watson]

In the US, the metric designations were almost never used for semi-auto cartridges, or for any other handgun cartridges, for that matter.

I remain fascinated by the 9.8mm Colt of 1912. I figure they went with the exotic metric nomenclature because they were going to offer it for sale in the Balkans and other parts of the world where the Colt-FN agreement to divide up the market did not apply. Also because 9.8mm = .386". I don't know if that is bore or groove, but it sounds entirely too close to the many existing nominal .38 rounds even though actually larger.

 

[Slamfire]

I'm thinking so there was no confusion between the rounds.

Yes

It sounded cooler and more powerful.

Yes

one word...Marketing.

Yes

Everything the firearms industry does is to maximize profit. Corporations are not in any pursuit of truth or logic, they are there to make the most money now. Which is true of all Corporations. So those looking for logical name evolution are missing that this cartridge was first and foremost designed to be profitable for the firm. That is its primary need.

The creators glomed on the name Magnum, which was being used for the powerful H&H belted magnum rounds. After watching enough Tarzan films of Africa, of African hunters shooting elephants, rhino's, hippopotamuses, the word magnum was out there, was recognizable, and would conjure narratives/images of big things. And of course this was the most powerful pistol round every made (at the time), it was huge, it was big, it was bad, so why not magnum? And then, how do they make this a distinctive name, something that stands out, stands above all the puny, insignificant cartridges that had "38" in their name. Creating a cartridge name with 38 would not be distinctive enough, but 357 was new.

I am certain there was a lot of debate about to whom they were targeting this round and how they wanted it to be distinctive. They would have known that humans create narrative stories in their minds, so they were looking to make a name that created the story they wanted, and a name that had "stickness."

And it worked. But the name is only rational in terms of marketing. Not in terms of cartridge evolution or topography.

These brands were created because at the time, the primary names were recognizable, created a story in the mind of the customer, and would be memorable.









Because they were so far in the past, these brand names would have little affect in today's world, like the jokes of the past, like the movie drama of the past, but they worked in the culture of the period. And at the time, someone thought it would work.

Now this handy device would help you determine how long you would survive after a nuclear blast. The market was small for this slide rule.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

A 38 is not accurate??
Then why do so many shoot 38 special bullseye??

As MCB pointed out, I meant that the name 38 Special does not accurately describe the bullet diameter. Not that the 357 cartridge is inherently more accurate than 38 Special.

38 Special is a very accurate cartridge.

Sorry for the confusion.