JTQ
Member
rebernie wrote,
I could probably be persuaded to agree with this statement.
The follow up question would be ... "how likely is an accidental discharge getting to ether condition and subsequently carrying in said condition?"
The 1911 has a thumb safety, grip safety, firing pin safety (some models), and some have counted the brain and the trigger finger as additional safeties.
To get an accidental discharge going to Condition 2, first you disconnect the "brain safety" when you tell your hand grab the pistol and disconnect the grip safety, then you disengage the thumb safety, then you disconnect the "trigger finger safety" when you put your finger on the trigger and pull, thereby disconnecting the firing pin safety. You have now defeated all of the safeties typically associated with the 1911 pistol. You are relying on the thumb and forefinger of your off hand to keep the pistol from firing. I'll give you that most don't oil the sides of their hammers, but most will likely have some oil on their slide and no doubt you just used that off hand to retract the slide and chamber a round possibly getting oil on your thumb and forefinger. The chances of not having a wide spur hammer is probably pretty good, since most of the 1911's sold over the past 20 years are not equipped with one. Now you probably have a slim, short hammer, and possibly a light coat of oil on the thumb and forefinger of the off hand you are grabbing the hammer with. Is that a likely scenario for an accidental discharge? You decide.
We have already conceded it safer putting the pistol into Condition 1 rather than Condition 2. Now we should consider how likely is it to have an accidental discharge while carrying in Condition 1. Let's say we have thrown our unholstered Condition 1, 1911 into our backpack with a bunch of other "stuff". To get an accidental discharge, something would need to disengage the thumb safety, and then together at the same time disengage the grip safety and pull the trigger. Is that a likely scenario for an accidental discharge? You decide.
I don't doubt there are thousands (possibly millions) of people who have safely put their pistol into Condition 2, millions of times. The question is which scenario is more likely to produce an accidental discharge? The first in Condition 2, where you have chosen to actively defeat all of the 1911's safeties, and where at least two posters in this thread alone have already admitted to having had accidental discharges with their own weapons going to Condition 2. No knock on them, I believe both are probably very safety conscious in their gun handling, but accidents do happen and you have chosen to bypass all of the 1911's safeties. Or is it more likely that somehow the thumb, grip, and firing pin safeties are all defeated by random chance in your backpack, barring of course you're not carrying a backpack full of clamps. We have had posters in this thread say their thumb safeties have disengaged, but none have had accidental discharges since the grip safety wasn't disengaged and the trigger wasn't pulled.
I will admit, as unlikely as I feel it would be for the thumb safety to be disengaged, and the grip safety disengaged and trigger pulled at the same time while in a pack, if I were carrying loose in a pack, I would put the pistol in Condition 3. The 1911 has many options for carry. The point is for you to understand the risks and benefits involved in each option and decide which is right for you. For me that means Condition 1 or Condition 3. If you have thoroughly weighed all the advantages and disadvantages of each mode of carry and chosen Condition 2, more power to you.
Getting to Condition 2 is less safe (from an AD perspective) than flicking on a thumb safety. Carrying in Condition 2 is more safe (from an AD perspective) than relying upon the thumb safety.
I could probably be persuaded to agree with this statement.
The follow up question would be ... "how likely is an accidental discharge getting to ether condition and subsequently carrying in said condition?"
The 1911 has a thumb safety, grip safety, firing pin safety (some models), and some have counted the brain and the trigger finger as additional safeties.
To get an accidental discharge going to Condition 2, first you disconnect the "brain safety" when you tell your hand grab the pistol and disconnect the grip safety, then you disengage the thumb safety, then you disconnect the "trigger finger safety" when you put your finger on the trigger and pull, thereby disconnecting the firing pin safety. You have now defeated all of the safeties typically associated with the 1911 pistol. You are relying on the thumb and forefinger of your off hand to keep the pistol from firing. I'll give you that most don't oil the sides of their hammers, but most will likely have some oil on their slide and no doubt you just used that off hand to retract the slide and chamber a round possibly getting oil on your thumb and forefinger. The chances of not having a wide spur hammer is probably pretty good, since most of the 1911's sold over the past 20 years are not equipped with one. Now you probably have a slim, short hammer, and possibly a light coat of oil on the thumb and forefinger of the off hand you are grabbing the hammer with. Is that a likely scenario for an accidental discharge? You decide.
We have already conceded it safer putting the pistol into Condition 1 rather than Condition 2. Now we should consider how likely is it to have an accidental discharge while carrying in Condition 1. Let's say we have thrown our unholstered Condition 1, 1911 into our backpack with a bunch of other "stuff". To get an accidental discharge, something would need to disengage the thumb safety, and then together at the same time disengage the grip safety and pull the trigger. Is that a likely scenario for an accidental discharge? You decide.
I don't doubt there are thousands (possibly millions) of people who have safely put their pistol into Condition 2, millions of times. The question is which scenario is more likely to produce an accidental discharge? The first in Condition 2, where you have chosen to actively defeat all of the 1911's safeties, and where at least two posters in this thread alone have already admitted to having had accidental discharges with their own weapons going to Condition 2. No knock on them, I believe both are probably very safety conscious in their gun handling, but accidents do happen and you have chosen to bypass all of the 1911's safeties. Or is it more likely that somehow the thumb, grip, and firing pin safeties are all defeated by random chance in your backpack, barring of course you're not carrying a backpack full of clamps. We have had posters in this thread say their thumb safeties have disengaged, but none have had accidental discharges since the grip safety wasn't disengaged and the trigger wasn't pulled.
I will admit, as unlikely as I feel it would be for the thumb safety to be disengaged, and the grip safety disengaged and trigger pulled at the same time while in a pack, if I were carrying loose in a pack, I would put the pistol in Condition 3. The 1911 has many options for carry. The point is for you to understand the risks and benefits involved in each option and decide which is right for you. For me that means Condition 1 or Condition 3. If you have thoroughly weighed all the advantages and disadvantages of each mode of carry and chosen Condition 2, more power to you.