Blackstone
Member
They'll try and strip your freedoms bit by bit, that way there's the least resistance.
Will We Sit at the Table?
- Thread starter HoosierQ
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lefteyedom
Member
It is a simple equation.
One side there is picture of 6 years girl who was double tapped with a Bushmaster.
The other side there is a picture of Wayne LaPierre.
It is not hard to understand the problem.
If this discussion is not shifted from guns to MENTAL HEALTH CARE we will lose more than just our guns.
Are you willing to support real mental health care reform? or will we just fight against taxes.
One side there is picture of 6 years girl who was double tapped with a Bushmaster.
The other side there is a picture of Wayne LaPierre.
It is not hard to understand the problem.
If this discussion is not shifted from guns to MENTAL HEALTH CARE we will lose more than just our guns.
Are you willing to support real mental health care reform? or will we just fight against taxes.
So the rifle that was reported to be recovered from his car is what he used?
Mental health care? Are people with Aspergers really the problem?
shootniron
Member
One thing, and it is a biggie, we need to keep in mind is that they could pass on gun control and press the ammo issue...
I agree, that this is a time for us to be present at the table and be the loudest one there...loudly and relentlessly stating that this and all other mass murders are the fault of sick peiople. We have to demand that attention be shifted away from the guns and too those that are responsible for these crimes.
I agree, that this is a time for us to be present at the table and be the loudest one there...loudly and relentlessly stating that this and all other mass murders are the fault of sick peiople. We have to demand that attention be shifted away from the guns and too those that are responsible for these crimes.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Yes. Apparently the ME has said most of the wounds were from the rifle. Guess it didn't stay in the car.
Moreso than guns? It's really hard to say. AGAIN, there really ISN'T a "true" social driver of these incredibly unlikely events. Picking out some wide-scale "fix" to address this issue (which is included in a pattern of school violence which is still, even so, on the decline!) is all just a feel-good measure at any rate.
Millions of people with Aspergers' didn't kill anyone yesterday, or all last year -- and never will. Hundreds of millions of firearms weren't used to kill innocent people, either -- and never will be.
We human beings have an innate need to find the core of a problem and FIX it. But we utterly fail when faced with negative outcomes that do not have any systemic "problem" which could be identified and solved.
But...as cut-throat as it is...I'll take a new focus on better mental health care than a new focus on gun control -- every day of the week and twice on Sunday!
shootniron
Member
False premise...to suggest that taxes need to be increased to reform mental health care.
Deanimator
Member
No, the discussion needs to be shifted to the media REWARDING narcissistic mass murderers with unlimited celebrity.
They're TRAINING them to kill the way a dog handler trains a dog to perform a task. For the dog, it's "Find some drugs, get a treat." For the murderer, it's "Shoot some kids, get on the evening news."
As long as the media continues to positively reinforce negative behavior, they will continue to kill, guns or no guns. The only difference is that Bloomberg doesn't CARE if somebody BURNS twenty kids to death.
lefteyedom
Member
Blaming the "MEDIA" while a legitimate complaint, will be seen as only killing the messenger.
If a tolerable solution is not found by "US' the gun community we stand to lose this battle as surely as Romney lost the election.
If we don't want to surrender our weapons we must find something that a balances the evil that kill those little kids.
Be smart, those of us with the 2nd adm are not the ones that will decide this,
Nor will it be the Anti Gun movement.
It will be the people that until now did not feel they had a "dog" in this fight.
Deanimator
Member
They're DIRECTLY responsible. ALL the evidence points in that direction.
What are we supposed to say instead? That it's witches? Alien grays?
No. They are far more than a messenger.
It is a problem that these people become household names, EVERYBODY knows their face, and they are ranked by body count.
R.W.Dale
Member
That may be true but how as a constitution loving RKBA supporter do you reconcile placing limitations on 1'st amendment freedoms and in the same breath place the 2nd on a sacred pedistal?
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R.W.Dale
Member
+1000
The vast majority of citizens are people who didn't care before are now going to ask the anti's what can be done, they will probably ask our side the same question.
If only the antis have a reply who do you guys think will get listed to?
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MachIVshooter
Member
This is what I've been saying. Every other "fix" has been tried, but we keep ignoring this core problem. The suicidal, unstable pariahs seek to be noticed, and they have learned that MSM will give them ultimate attention if they but slaughter a few innocents on their way out. The more dispicable the crime, the more infamous the criminal.
Muzzle these dogs.
R.W.Dale
Member
Thank you for the Clinton era NRA talking point we've all not read 10,000 times previously.
Now can we discuss what will we put fourth as OUR solutions to counter the coming gun legislation.
The people to be swayed here don't give two ....... about antis or pro rkba likely not even knowing what those words even referr to. All they care about is making sure Friday's atrocities never are repeated.
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Deanimator
Member
That's a pretty ironclad way to see just WHAT constitutional rights the other side is willing to give up, ISN'T it?
Guns are just a means.
Irresponsible publicity in the name of crass profit is a CAUSE.
If they want to "compromise", let them compromise the 1st Amendment for the 2nd.
What, no takers?
Deanimator
Member
2+2=4 during the reign of Marcus Aurelius.
2+2=4 during the Clinton administration.
2+2=4 in 10,000 years.
What's your alternative to the TRUTH?
R.W.Dale
Member
And become just like the left and compromise our liberty for perceived safety?
You might do it gleefully as long as its not your pet amendment but I care for the ENTIRE constitution
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AKMtnRunner
Member
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It would be good to have discussions at the table centered on actual reasons for these mass shootings. Look at the big picture and have a comprehensive understanding of all factors.
At the top of the list:
-Resources for mental illness in this country. Parents need to be able to get help before a crime is commited. There is a good article written by a parent here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...er-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html
-Teach our children the correct relationship with weapons. This education needs to come from responsible adults instead of video games. I really have no idea, but I doubt that any of these mass shootings been committed by guys that were brought up in game hunting lifestyles.
We should not fear having constructive debate, as long as the goal of such is the right one: to stop these mass killings, and not to simply take guns out of people's hands.
At the top of the list:
-Resources for mental illness in this country. Parents need to be able to get help before a crime is commited. There is a good article written by a parent here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...er-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html
-Teach our children the correct relationship with weapons. This education needs to come from responsible adults instead of video games. I really have no idea, but I doubt that any of these mass shootings been committed by guys that were brought up in game hunting lifestyles.
We should not fear having constructive debate, as long as the goal of such is the right one: to stop these mass killings, and not to simply take guns out of people's hands.
R.W.Dale
Member
It may be THE TRUTH but you know what NOBODY but us cares about that.
I applaud you for your idealism but idealistic rhetoric won't get us anywhere in this upcoming %@+ storm.
We'll look back on this and see this situation shares many parallels to the Hindenburg. After that disaster it didn't matter how safe the airship record had been previous, it didn't matter how many people survived the crash, it didn't matter that helium was becoming avalible solving the fire hazards of hydrogen. NONE OF THE FACTS MATTERED! The only thing that mattered was public perception.
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an analogy
without proposing any actual ideas because it's pretty clear threads get closed that way, i'd like to give an analogy.
the vast majority of iraqi and afghan citizens aren't murderers and terrorists yet their countries were invaded. i would argue that it wasn't because this country wanted to invade but because the people that weren't guilty of anything sat idly by repeating, "Islam is a religion of peace", and little else.
i don't think there's a member of the high road that believes guns cause crime. but if that's 90% of the message we as responsible gun owners convey, don't be surprised when this government does to gun owners what it did to the citizens of iraq and afghanistan.
without proposing any actual ideas because it's pretty clear threads get closed that way, i'd like to give an analogy.
the vast majority of iraqi and afghan citizens aren't murderers and terrorists yet their countries were invaded. i would argue that it wasn't because this country wanted to invade but because the people that weren't guilty of anything sat idly by repeating, "Islam is a religion of peace", and little else.
i don't think there's a member of the high road that believes guns cause crime. but if that's 90% of the message we as responsible gun owners convey, don't be surprised when this government does to gun owners what it did to the citizens of iraq and afghanistan.
Deanimator
Member
We'd never get the opportunity because they'd NEVER accept REAL compromise.
And that's the point.
What are you talking about?
I'm not sure what you are asking about...but in the '94 AWB there was no exception for magazines >10 rounds simply due to the cartridge they were for
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